Help with finding marriage - civil records

riverina

Hi all

I have tried every permutation and combination I can think of but I can't find the following marriage:

James Howley and Mary Kenny. Living in Castlebar, Mayo registration district, but I've tried all other districts, and UK.

The first birth of a child I can find is in 1914, 15 September, a daughter Mary Ann: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01392/1572518.pdf

I'd be so grateful if anyone could help, maybe I just need some new eyes on it!

many thanks

pinkypinky

I don't see anything helpful either.

Have you found them individually on the 1911 census? Just in case another spelling crops up that way.

Hermy

I wonder is this James in 1911?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Turlough/Lugnavaddoge/717933/

Hermy

And 1901 presumably?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Turlough/Lugnavaddoge/1585520/

riverina

Thanks so much for trying to help me.

Yep that is James in 1911, and there are two Mary Kennys in neighbouring townlands who are likely candidates. Family stories point me in the direction of one over the other, but I'd really like confirmation from the marriage cert!

pinkypinky

Were they both Catholic?

Tiny chance if not the same religion they got married in the registry office.

It's most likely going to be a transcription error of epic proportions.

riverina

Agreed. I have even tried to guess how it might have been transcribed incorrectly... but didn't succeed!

SophieLockhart

I'm pretty sure quite a few of the records are unavailable. I have an exact date, and newspaper article, for a relative's wedding in 1929 but nothing shows up on the register.

pinkypinky

All 1920s marriages should be available. It's most likely to be a transcription error.

srmf5

Any chance someone forgot to register the marriage? I have two deaths off the top of my head that I can't find a record for even though I have an exact death date from a will and gravestone for one and a memorial card for the other.

pinkypinky

Deaths - yes entirely possible, but marriages involved clergy who had to do the registration - much less likely.

KildareFan

pinkypinky wrote: »

Deaths - yes entirely possible, but marriages involved clergy who had to do the registration - much less likely.

I've found a few marriages recorded on the Church register, but no matching civil record... I've cross checked marriages before and after the missing marriage on the Church register & found those on the civil record... but the ones I've looked for are not there.

kanadams123

KildareFan wrote: »

I've found a few marriages recorded on the Church register, but no matching civil record... I've cross checked marriages before and after the missing marriage on the Church register & found those on the civil record... but the ones I've looked for are not there.

I believe it depends on the year of marriage. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think marriage registration wasn't compulsory in the Irish free state untill ..I think it was 1864.

Therefore it's highly possible that you may find a church record before this time which won't have a corresponding civil record.

I have a church record of the marriage between my great-great grandparents in 1860, but there is no civil record, which is a shame as I still haven't found the parents of these people, and a civil marriage record would be a great help.

pinkypinky

Between 1845-1864, only non-Catholic marriages were registered, because the RCC wouldn't cooperate. After 1864, everyone was supposed to be registered, but like any new system, it took a while to bed in.

KildareFan

The marriages I'm referring to took place after 1864 and were supposed to be registered with the local civil registration district. As I mentioned, the church register provides evidence of the marriage; the church marriages before and after the marriages I'm interested in were registered on the civil record, but the marriages I'm looking for weren't registered.... looks like the priests who were obliged to send the information to the registry office didn't get around to it for some reason.

Hermy

A marriage I'm interested in from the 1930's doesn't appear in any of the online civil indexes or records.

I happened to mention this absence to a relative of the now deceased couple and was told "they married at night".
I've also heard the expression "married behind the alter" in a similar context.

In both cases I take it to mean financial or other circumstances meant the usual matrimonial celebrations were not an option.
Would this explain the absence of the civil record but not the parish one?

Hermy

Interestingly, in the case of the groom mentioned above, a civil record of his parents marriage hasn't been found either but a transcript of the parish record was found on Roots Ireland.