Why no scrappage deals on electric cars?

goob20s

Just curious. Is there a reason I'm not seeing?

deravarra

goob20s wrote: »

Just curious. Is there a reason I'm not seeing?

Probably because they've already got VRT reductions and SEAI grants applied to them.

Still stupidly expensive, and not all down to tax - quite a bit of it down to the greed of importers and distributors.

JPA

goob20s wrote: »

Just curious. Is there a reason I'm not seeing?

Supply and demand.

There might be scrappage deals with government backing in the future but not yet.

goob20s

deravarra wrote: »

Probably because they've already got VRT reductions and SEAI grants applied to them.

Still stupidly expensive, and not all down to tax - quite a bit of it down to the greed of importers and distributors.

I was leaning to greed alright and them not wanting to push electric cars too much as they take away future profits. Thanks

Does volkswagon not have a grant to scrap diesels for electrics ?

KCross

JPA wrote: »

Supply and demand.

+1

Scrappage schemes funded by the manufacturers/dealers are there to help them shift cars that wouldnt otherwise be sold.

They dont need to do that for EV's as the majority are all sold upfront, in some cases 12 months in advance.... therefore no incentive whatsoever to give scrappage.

When manufacturers have an oversupply of EV's then they will provide scrappage. I'd suggest we are many years away from that happening.

Nolars

I seen a YouTube video where people in Scotland can get a 6 year interest free loan for new Evs and only once. That would be class here

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Scrappage schemes funded by the manufacturers/dealers are there to help them shift cars that wouldnt otherwise be sold.

That's what you would think. Selling them cheaper than necessary is not good for business as profits need to be maximised. Shortage in supplies has led dealers in the USA to price Ioniqs at full RRP + USD3000 :eek:

Yet, some people here in this forum managed to get scrappage on a 191 Ioniq in Ireland. It makes no sense, but it happended.

goob20s

Nolars wrote: »

I seen a YouTube video where people in Scotland can get a 6 year interest free loan for new Evs and only once. That would be class here

Ah but that would take brains from our government to do.:D

charlieIRL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Does volkswagon not have a grant to scrap diesels for electrics ?

No unfortunately not

charlieIRL

Nolars wrote: »

I seen a YouTube video where people in Scotland can get a 6 year interest free loan for new Evs and only once. That would be class here

If you PCP one you get interest free from most garages for 3 years. Buy it out at end with finance from garage at lower rate than personal loan. Cheapest way to finance a new EV

MightyMunster

unkel wrote: »

That's what you would think. Selling them cheaper than necessary is not good for business as profits need to be maximised. Shortage in supplies has led dealers in the USA to price Ioniqs at full RRP + USD3000 :eek:

Yet, some people here in this forum managed to get scrappage on a 191 Ioniq in Ireland. It makes no sense, but it happended.

Hyundai had a scrappage deal across their range for Jan 2019 it included Ioniq but not Kona. Was a great deal for those of us that got it ðŸ˜

charlieIRL

charlieIRL wrote: »

If you PCP one you get interest free from most garages for 3 years. Buy it out at end with finance from garage at lower rate than personal loan. Cheapest way to finance a new EV

Who does interest free PCP on EVs?

unkel

I think Renault for the Zoe? But you end up paying thousands more than the car is worth up front

Lantus

charlieIRL wrote: »

If you PCP one you get interest free from most garages for 3 years. Buy it out at end with finance from garage at lower rate than personal loan. Cheapest way to finance a new EV

All ev on pcp come with a tidy interest percentage built in. You pay 2 to 4k easily on most for the first 3 years for leaf and kona and a bit less on the remainder.

Lumen

From the VW website ..

Lantus

Lumen wrote: »

From the VW website ..

If you can afford 48k on a golf without any extras added interest isn't going to be of much concern.

The slightly more affordable {but still expensive} mainstream cars like leaf and kona do have an interest component.

Lumen

Lantus wrote: »

If you can afford 48k on a golf without any extras added interest isn't going to be of much concern.

The slightly more affordable {but still expensive} mainstream cars like leaf and kona do have an interest component.

There is nobody who would want a loan to whom interest is not a concern - people with net liquid assets don't need finance to buy cars, they can just pay cash.

I don't normally use car finance as I switched to buying cars with cash soon after I got a mortgage (since the mortgage interest rate is lower than the car finance rate), but I would be interested in 0% APR as it would enable me to pay money off my 3.2% mortgage instead.

However, 0% APR on cars is typically a sign that the car ought to be heavily discounted, and so is a bit of a red flag that you're being ripped off elsewhere.

In this case VW are probably trying to close as many eGolf sales as possible before the base ID.3 becomes available for ordering.

adunis

unkel wrote: »

I think Renault for the Zoe? But you end up paying thousands more than the car is worth up front

It not PCP
It's normal hp over 5 years at 0%
And a ze 4 dynamique nav can be had for 26k

Calahonda52

TheTorment wrote: »

Who does interest free PCP on EVs?

Its buried in the numbers, its not free

Lumen

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Its buried in the numbers, its not free

It does appear to be free with that eGolf example I posted, as long as you pay the final balance to keep the car.

The problem with all car finance is that it encourages people to buy something they can't actually afford.

With the eGolf example you enter with +14k equity and exit with approximately zero, so you've gotten about 14k poorer as a result.

VW are betting that you haven't carefully squirreled away 12k of extra savings over the contract period and so have you over a barrel. They're not stupid.

The sensible thing to do with finance (other than avoid it altogether) is to only finance the depreciation, but this results in higher repayments that take the edge off the new car smell.

unkel

A 200km range eGolf on its last legs about to be replaced by a proper EV next year. For over €47k? :eek:

That's just a grand short of the price of a Tesla Model 3. Are VW joking or something?

unkel

adunis wrote: »

It not PCP
It's normal hp over 5 years at 0%
And a ze 4 dynamique nav can be had for 26k

Thanks for clarifying. I knew there was something different about it alright. €26k is about €5-€6k overpriced imho. But hey, almost all EVs are overpriced at the moment.

tom1ie

Lumen wrote: »

From the VW website ..

Good god that is a horrendous expense every month just to drive an ev.

unkel

tom1ie wrote: »

Good god that is a horrendous expense every month just to drive an ev.

That car is just horrendously overpriced at €47k. Many people have bought brand new EVs with similar range for mostly in the €25k-€31k range (Ioniq / Zoe / new model Leaf). A brand new old model Leaf was under €20k on the road even 3 years ago.

Lantus

tom1ie wrote: »

Good god that is a horrendous expense every month just to drive an ev.

A leaf and kona will be similar unless you max out the deposit.

It's not economic unless your car spend is typically 35k +. Then you will save.

If your budget drops below 30k your fuel costs won't generally outstrip the capital cost of those new evs unless you hold for 6+ years.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

It does appear to be free with that eGolf example I posted, as long as you pay the final balance to keep the car.

The problem with all car finance is that it encourages people to buy something they can't actually afford.

With the eGolf example you enter with +14k equity and exit with approximately zero, so you've gotten about 14k poorer as a result.

VW are betting that you haven't carefully squirreled away 12k of extra savings over the contract period and so have you over a barrel. They're not stupid.

The sensible thing to do with finance (other than avoid it altogether) is to only finance the depreciation, but this results in higher repayments that take the edge off the new car smell.

I just realised that my maths is garbage.

If the car was worth 50% of list at the end of 3 years, you'd owe 12k but it'd be worth 24k, so you have 12k to throw at the next depreciating lump of lithium.

....but yes, 48k for an eGolf! Nopey nope nope.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

A 200km range eGolf on its last legs about to be replaced by a proper EV next year. For over €47k? :eek:

That's just a grand short of the price of a Tesla Model 3. Are VW joking or something?

The 48k is without the grant, so it's 38k.

sligo_dave

0% interest for egolf is all well and good but the better tell us the gmfv of €12k, which would indicate a serious depreciation in the 3 year period of the agreement.
VW realise the value of the golf will plummet when the id3 comes out and are using the 0% interest to appear as a great offer when in fact the car is just overpriced by €10k to begin with. Price should be at €38k before grants and even at that it wouldn’t be great value considering it’s capabilities and the age of the tech and styling in the car.

charlieIRL

A non-executive e-golf is €37k with grants brand new but yet a 2018 is circa €30k here or £22k Sterling across the pond. A 2017 in the UK can be bought for £17. Massive depreciation in a few years.

Shefwedfan

charlieIRL wrote: »

A non-executive e-golf is €37k with grants brand new but yet a 2018 is circa €30k here or £22k Sterling across the pond. A 2017 in the UK can be bought for £17. Massive depreciation in a few years.

Similar in all cars, newer they are the higher the depreciations


Look down the years and the price is holding strong.

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Similar in all cars, newer they are the higher the depreciations

Look down the years and the price is holding strong.

Yes, pretty close to 20% a year.

The only cars which depreciate slower than that tend to be supply restricted, i.e. long waiting lists.

The problem with EVs is the constant advancement of new product, e.g. Tesla S sales seem to have gone through the floor now that the 3 is available.

And last year's 40kWh is this year's 60kWh...

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

Yes, pretty close to 20% a year.

The only cars which depreciate slower than that tend to be supply restricted, i.e. long waiting lists.

The problem with EVs is the constant advancement of new product, e.g. Tesla S sales seem to have gone through the floor now that the 3 is available.

And last year's 40kWh is this year's 60kWh...

The market is going to consolidate now.


You 40kWh and 60kWh will be the same for the next while. At least 5 years. So a Leaf 40/60kWh will or should be still for sale in 5 years time but maybe with a mid cycle update which they already done this year with the new screen etc...


The car companies are going to have o follow the life of a combustion car, it is not feasible to release a new model every 12 months.

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The car companies are going to have o follow the life of a combustion car, it is not feasible to release a new model every 12 months.

Tell that to VW. In a few years there will be at least ID.1, ID.2, ID.3, ID.4, ID.9, and that camper thing, plus the usual battery/performance/trim variations.

I'm guessing used values of ground-up EV models will hold OK. An ID.3 won't lose value when an ID.4 is born, VW will just adjust production to match demand across the ranges.

People just have to get used to the idea that older cars won't get less reliable, they'll just have lower range.

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

Tell that to VW. In a few years there will be at least ID.1, ID.2, ID.3, ID.4, ID.9, and that camper thing, plus the usual battery/performance/trim variations.

I'm guessing used values of ground-up EV models will hold OK. An ID.3 won't lose value when an ID.4 is born, VW will just adjust production to match demand across the ranges.

People just have to get used to the idea that older cars won't get less reliable, they'll just have lower range.

They are all different models.

I mean when the ID.3 is released that it will have a 5 year+ life cycle without a battery jump after 12 months or 48 months.

VW plan to have 300 models across their brands by 2025, I don't expect them to have v1 and v2 of each of those models across the same period.

In reality the eGolf was fairly stable, released in 2014....mid life refresh in 2017 and then end of life 2021.....it will be on the market for 7 years by the time it hangs up it books