Accuracy of dates on conveyancing documents

edanto

Where would I find information around the rules on the dates to be used on conveyancing documents; specifically the date of transfer of deeds?

I assumed the date used would be the closing date (i.e. "got the keys"); is that specified anywhere in Law Society guidelines or law, please?

mickuhaha

edanto wrote: »

Where would I find information around the rules on the dates to be used on conveyancing documents; specifically the date of transfer of deeds?

I assumed the date used would be the closing date (i.e. "got the keys"); is that specified anywhere in Law Society guidelines or law, please?

it's the day you become legally the owner. The same as if you were buying anything else. If you buy a can of coke you become owner of the can of coke when you hand over the money and the seller accepted it.
I guess what I mean is that you the purchaser and the seller agrees to the date. Then you note that on the transfer deed and both sign it. It is a binding contract then. You are both expected to carry out the terms of the contract.

edanto

What if the date recorded on the transfer deed was incorrect? (a) is that an issue [does it break a law/guideline] and (b) how would it be corrected?

Peregrinus

In what sense would it be "incorrect"? Are you talking about a document that is accidentally dated, say, 1920 instead of 2019? Or something else?

edanto

Hypothetically, if the actual closing/transfer date was in October (before the Local Property Tax assessment date) but the purchasing solicitor was to mistakenly date the transfer deed in December (after the LPT date, leaving the previous owner liable for LPT); that might be an example of "incorrect".

If the situation was ever to occur to me in real life, I would of course discuss with my solicitor but I would do some research at the same time to find out all I could about guidelines/laws in the area.

Peregrinus

It's an unlikely hypothesis. If you close in October but date the document "December", you won't be able to register your ownership of the property for another two months, despite having a parted with a large amount of money for that ownership. If nothing else, you run the risk of the vendor fraudulently selling the property a second time to someone else in the meantime, or (perhaps a bit more plausible) a creditor of the vendor registering a judgment against the property, or someone else turning up who claims to be entitled to an interest in the property. Or the vendor might die between October and December, in which event your December-dated transfer deed is unregistrable.

And even if the purchaser is willing to run these risks in an attemtp to avoid one year's property tax, if there is a bank involved in financing the purchase they certainly will not be.

So, what happens if, hypothetically, through genuine error, the transfer is postdated at closing and nobody at the closing meeting notices this? The error will come to light almost immediately when the transfer is lodged for registration; the PRA will query it. The purchaser's solicitor will be mortified and will immediately go back to the vendor's solicitor and seek his help in getting the error rectified with a correctly-dated transfer. If the error does cause any loss to the purchaser, the purchaser will sue his solicitor.

edanto

Granted, with all those controls and checks it is an unlikely situation. However, IF it were to arise and PRA/Revenue/bank/solicitors hadn't noticed it and IF the purchasing solicitor wasn't minded to correct it, is there any way to force them by just pointing to a law/guideline?

(it seems like the most obvious route is for the selling solicitor to write to the purchasing solicitor and request the change, I guess I'm just wondering what might happen if they refused to)

Peregrinus

Once it had been registered getting it corrected would be a huge drama. And since you, as a party to the execution of the document, would be as responsible for the error as anyone else, you might not be able to fix others with the costs of sorting out the drama; you might have to bear them yourself.

But you could ask yourself whether you need to get the error rectified. If everybody agrees that there has been an error, and if as a result (say) the wrong person gets the property tax bill, couldn't the right person simply reimburse the wrong person for the amount of tax involved? That would be much simpler and cheaper.

mickuhaha

In relation to LPT who ever owns the property on the 1 Jan is responsible for payment for that year and they have until 31 Dec to pay it. In relation to the registration it is done based on the lodging party stating that all paperwork is correct and this person would be responsible for the error. Also the state guarantee would only apply from the date of registration which would be after the deed date. There would be no reason for any one to get in trouble in relation to a Wong date unless it affects somebody in a negative way . Plus as above you would have signed the incorrect documents and would also be responsible.

gipi

mickuhaha wrote: »

In relation to LPT who ever owns the property on the 1 Jan is responsible for payment for that year and they have until 31 Dec to pay it. In relation to the registration it is done based on the lodging party stating that all paperwork is correct and this person would be responsible for the error. Also the state guarantee would only apply from the date of registration which would be after the deed date. There would be no reason for any one to get in trouble in relation to a Wong date unless it affects somebody in a negative way . Plus as above you would have signed the incorrect documents and would also be responsible.

Isn't the relevant date for LPT 1 November, not 1 January? Whoever owns the property on 1 November is liable for the tax for the coming year.

mickuhaha

gipi wrote: »

Isn't the relevant date for LPT 1 November, not 1 January? Whoever owns the property on 1 November is liable for the tax for the coming year.

Yes your right I got it mixed up with something else my memory is not as good as I would like , it is 1 Nov, if you own a property on 1 November 2018 and subsequently sell it any time before 1 November 2019 you are liable to pay LPT for 2019. According to https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/local_property_tax.html

edanto

Peregrinus wrote: »

If everybody agrees that there has been an error, and if as a result (say) the wrong person gets the property tax bill, couldn't the right person simply reimburse the wrong person for the amount of tax involved? That would be much simpler and cheaper.

Definitely the simplest solution, thanks.