Tesla M3 vs Kia e-Niro, tldr alert

Lumen

Rather than polluting either of the main threads I thought I'd attempt a head-to-head comparison..

These are the two EVs that are on my shopping list. Neither of them are currently available to anyone waving a bank transfer, and I'm not going to bother guessing when that will change. I have no interest in VAG, BMW, JLR or Hyundai products for various off-topic reasons.

I have a top-spec Sportage at the moment and it's a nice thing as far as metal boxes on wheels that move people are concerned, but my petrolhead tendencies have been in quiet hibernation for the last decade or so and the M3 is stirring them again.

I know it seems weird to compare a 60k saloon to a 40k crossover hatch, but to me they're valid alternatives - with the Tesla I'd be deliberately sacrificing one form of practicality (hatch, buttons, nav options) for another (huge range), and the performance and looks are the icing on the cake.

Anyway, here it is point by point....

Tesla:
+ Lots of data on efficiency and (lack of) battery degradation
+ 8 year or 160,000 km - 192,000 km warranty on battery and drivetrain
+ LR/P = spaceship
(+/-) SR+: good but unremarkable range, strong but not ludicrous peformance
- Higher probability of faults, longer likely repair times
- No Android auto = complete reliance on Tesla maps and traffic. How well do these work in Ireland?
- Some reported build quality issues e.g. panel gaps around glass roof causing excess wind noise

Kia e-Niro
+ Likely very reliable, more consistent build quality, faster repairs
+ Android Auto
+ Buttons and levers to change settings whilst driving (e.g. regen settings, heated seats, climate controls)
+ Hatchback = way more practical
- Too new to know anything about battery degradation
- Only 2 year warranty on battery, but 7 on everything else. What are they afraid of? edit: this may be incorrect, see discussion below
- Torque steer
- Crap headlights
- Boring

Whilst my criteria are quite personal (in particular 40,000 km a year and regular 300km daily usage), I can't see the sense in the SR+ as it seems to fall between two stools. It's 10k more expensive than the Kia, less practical due to the lack of hatchback, and my doubts around possible quality issues and repair delays won't go away. The SR+ is quicker than the Kia, but not ludicrously so.In an increasingly competitive ~€40k EV market, the €50k SR+ is looking like it might struggle. The fast Model 3s utterly destroy the conventional opposition - why would I get a Taycan when the M3P is half the price? But the industry is coming for the SR+, whether it's the Koreans or the Germans, I just can't see Tesla being able to defend that segment.

The M3 LR or P, however, are genuinely compelling in terms of substantially greater range and insane performance and this is enough to live with the risk of the odd absence in the dealership.

The e-Niro is a sensible choice. The fuel savings on my 40,000km/year usage almost exactly offset the greater depreciation of a newer car, and I would get improved driver aids and significantly better performance than my Sportage.

On the other hand, the M3 LR/P is a spaceship. In 5 years time the roads will be fully of EVs, but the M3 will still stand out. I don't care what other people think (I own a Kia!) but owning something genuinely distinctive appeals to me.

So anyway, the tldr is: do I want a practical, satisfying box or a spaceship?

I have an SR+ rental booked for a day in September. Are Kia doing test drives?

Soarer

Does the eNiro really only have a 2 year battery warranty?

That seems ridiculously low.

JPA

Soarer wrote: »

Does the eNiro really only have a 2 year battery warranty?

That seems ridiculously low.

Pretty sure battery is covered under the 7 year warranty. Not sure where that information came from OP.

Lumen

Soarer wrote: »

Does the eNiro really only have a 2 year battery warranty?

That seems ridiculously low.

As as far I can tell, yes.

https://www.kia.com/ie/service/service-care/WarrantyTermsandExclusions/

Kia IE wrote:

Kia covers the components of a new Kia car for 84 months/150,000 kilometers, from the date of first registration.

Exceptions to this are:
- The battery – this is covered for 24 months
- The air conditioning refrigerant charge - this is also covered for 24 months
- Wheel balance and steering alignment - are covered for the first 1600 km or one month.
- Cracks in the exterior glass - are covered for the first 1600 km or three months

Source: https://www.kia.com/ie/service/service-care/WarrantyTermsandExclusions/

Oh wait, maybe that hasn't been updated and refers to the low-voltage battery.

...searches....

https://www.kia.com/ie/new-cars/e-niro/discover/

7-year warranty
Each new Kia e-Niro owner benefits from our unique 7-year new car warranty, including battery coverage.12 That's how much we believe in our cars and our technology! Also, you can transfer it to new owners if you sell.

Yeah, OK, so maybe it is the case that they just haven't updated the Ts & Cs.

As for Tesla...

Tesla IE wrote:

Model 3 - 8 years or 160,000 km, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 192,000 km, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

Source: https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/vehicle-warranty?redirect=no

I assume the P is covered by the longer warranty since it has the LR battery, but who knows.

Lumen

OK, so let's assume that the M3LR and M3P have an 8 year/192k km warranty on battery and drivetrain, and on the Kia it's 7 years/150k km for everything.

There's not much in that, although worth pointing out that the Tesla includes a specific guarantee on battery degradation (70% retention) whereas the Kia does not, and there is a wealth of public data on Tesla battery longevity whereas for the Kia there's nothing.

krissovo

The big turn off for me for e-niro, e-soul, Kona etc is that they are designed as ICE platforms and they adapt them to an EV. It’s great if you like front wheel drive and torque steer and poor weight distribution. They are designed to be cheap to produce and as result they are compromised somewhat to drive. Go for a spin in a Leaf and then a i3, the difference is night and day. The i3 is designed from the ground up to be a EV and a drivers car. The M3 is a great drive, I have only drove the rear wheel drive version but its up there with my Mercedes for a really nice drive.

Another point to consider is dealer networks, I hate them with a passion. Keary’s in Cork when I was looking at the e-niro are awful, smart ass salesmen and dumb receptionists who are all looks and zero brains. Then the dance to negotiate a price and always some bloke in the pub or a forum who got an amazing deal much better than you.

Lumen

krissovo wrote: »

The big turn off for me for e-niro, e-soul, Kona etc is that they are designed as ICE platforms and they adapt them to an EV. It’s great if you like front wheel drive and torque steer and poor weight distribution. They are designed to be cheap to produce and as result they are compromised somewhat to drive. Go for a spin in a Leaf and then a i3, the difference is night and day. The i3 is designed from the ground up to be a EV and a drivers car. The M3 is a great drive, I have only drove the rear wheel drive version but its up there with my Mercedes for a really nice drive

That's a good point, although I have read that the e-Niro/Kona don't suffer torque steer as bad as the Leaf. it does seem disappointing that the most standout thing about EV performance, low-speed acceleration, is so compromised.

The i3 is an amazing piece of tech (all that carbon fibre!) but not enough range for me, and the range extender version would see me down to Leafspeed on the motorways on a regular basis, which just doesn't cut it for a premium EV.

Lumen

Oh, other possible irritations I missed:

- Model 3: panel gaps around roof causing excess wind noise at speed.
- e-Niro: incandescent headlights from the 1990s.

80sDiesel

Lumen wrote: »

The i3 is an amazing piece of tech (all that carbon fibre!) but not enough range for me, and the range extender version would see me down to Leafspeed on the motorways on a regular basis, which just doesn't cut it for a premium EV.

Why would u get leafspeed on an i3 Rex when you can turn on the Rex earlier than needed causing no loss in speed ?

Old diesel

krissovo wrote: »

The big turn off for me for e-niro, e-soul, Kona etc is that they are designed as ICE platforms and they adapt them to an EV. It’s great if you like front wheel drive and torque steer and poor weight distribution. They are designed to be cheap to produce and as result they are compromised somewhat to drive. Go for a spin in a Leaf and then a i3, the difference is night and day. The i3 is designed from the ground up to be a EV and a drivers car. The M3 is a great drive, I have only drove the rear wheel drive version but its up there with my Mercedes for a really nice drive.

Another point to consider is dealer networks, I hate them with a passion. Keary’s in Cork when I was looking at the e-niro are awful, smart ass salesmen and dumb receptionists who are all looks and zero brains. Then the dance to negotiate a price and always some bloke in the pub or a forum who got an amazing deal much better than you.

There's a lot to be said for being able to go back to a "normal" dealer if there is a problem and also being able to pick up the phone and speak to Kia customer services etc.

The Tesla set up could be a real faff with just one place in Dublin and who exactly do you talk to in the case of an issue.

Would I still choose the Tesla - well 100 percent yes - subject to seeing what exactly the ride comfort etc is like.

Model 3 is the latest shiney new toy and Tesla brings me back to when I was a child aspiring to the different cars that caught my eye.

Like the Mk 3 Ford Granada or Audi Coupe back in the 80s.

I really hate the whole crossover/SUV thing which the eNiro is an example off.

eNiro is definitely a much more sensible purchase - I shall take Elons claims on battery module life with a pinch of salt because it's Elon and he over promises.

Are Kia definitely running LG Chem batteries - I'd trust LG Chem to do a relatively decent job - way ahead of Nissan for example.

So Kia if you want a simi sensible purchase.

Tesla if you want the cool car to own

Shefwedfan

krissovo wrote: »

The big turn off for me for e-niro, e-soul, Kona etc is that they are designed as ICE platforms and they adapt them to an EV. It’s great if you like front wheel drive and torque steer and poor weight distribution. They are designed to be cheap to produce and as result they are compromised somewhat to drive. Go for a spin in a Leaf and then a i3, the difference is night and day. The i3 is designed from the ground up to be a EV and a drivers car. The M3 is a great drive, I have only drove the rear wheel drive version but its up there with my Mercedes for a really nice drive.

Another point to consider is dealer networks, I hate them with a passion. Keary’s in Cork when I was looking at the e-niro are awful, smart ass salesmen and dumb receptionists who are all looks and zero brains. Then the dance to negotiate a price and always some bloke in the pub or a forum who got an amazing deal much better than you.

Nothing wrong with converting a combustion car to a electric car.



Not sure why you would compare a BMW with a Nissan. Hardly a fair comparison now. Also the Leaf is designed from the ground up to be electric. They have just used the same design template as the Pulsar.



Also you dont rate a car because of a dealer?just change dealers. Plenty knocking around.



I would never listen to any guy in pub/forum. It is always BS, you say 30k and they will say 25k...


A strange number of reasons to discount a car.

Shefwedfan

If you wereb buying a combustion car would you look at a A4 and then go to BMW and test a X3 as a comparison? no you would test drive the 3 series.

If both are same money then you need to pick which meets your requirements best.

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you wereb buying a combustion car would you look at a A4 and then go to BMW and test a X3 as a comparison? no you would test drive the 3 series.

If both are same money then you need to pick which meets your requirements best.

That's not how I shop for cars.

The X3 and A4 are both five seat mid-range boxes. They do essentially the same job. What's the difference, really?

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

That's not how I shop for cars.

The X3 and A4 are both five seat mid-range boxes. They do essentially the same job. What's the difference, really?

You don't have kids so :P if you did then Crossovers would make sense

unkel

I don't feel the Kia is the sensible choice. A FWD long range cross over from Korea for €40k compared with an insanely fast €60k futuristic car? The former is overpriced for what you get, the latter a bit of a bargain in this country.

Once you have the car bought, the costs to own them are similar enough. Tesla a few hundred more for insurance and a bit more expensive on tyres, that's about it, Tesla will possibly save you some money on electricity. So the total cost of ownership boils down to the depreciation. Which in relative terms will be lower on the Tesla, I've no doubt about that. Let's say the Kia keeps 40% over 5 years and the Tesla keeps 50%. That means the total depreciation with Kia is €24k and with Tesla €30k, the latter thus costing €100 per month more than the Kia in depreciation. That's not a lot for what you get extra in my book.

You're a self confessed petrol head. You've been bored by your Kia. You can obviously afford getting the Tesla. Just do it man

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You don't have kids so :P if you did then Crossovers would make sense

I do have both kids and a crossover, but TBH the Sportage is not a particularly practical car, no better than a regular hatchback. For that I have my van like FRV, which will transport in its cavernous belly six people, 3m of guttering, a tonne of manure, a couple of mountain bikes or whatever other assorted crap I'm shlepping around.

The long term plan is to get a trailer, but towing options are a bit limited in EV land. The M3 will tow less than a tonne, and nothing at all with 20 inch wheels, and AFAIK the Niro is also not rated for towing.

The Model X will tow but is out of budget and in any case I could just buy an old van instead.

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

I do have both kids and a crossover, but TBH the Sportage is not a particularly practical car, no better than a regular hatchback. For that I have my van like FRV, which will transport in its cavernous belly six people, 3m of guttering, a tonne of manure, a couple of mountain bikes or whatever other assorted crap I'm shlepping around.

The long term plan is to get a trailer, but towing options are a bit limited in EV land. The M3 will tow less than a tonne, and nothing at all with 20 inch wheels, and AFAIK the Niro is also not rated for towing.

The Model X will tow but is out of budget and in any case I could just buy an old van instead.

Putting kids in and out of the back of car ....it is a lot easier into a crossover. They are not any bigger but at least you are not bending in all the time,......

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Putting kids in and out of the back of car ....it is a lot easier into a crossover. They are not any bigger but at least you are not bending in all the time,......

Ah come on. Unless of course you have back problems or other issues. Lifting kids in and out of a normal car is easy. I've 3 kids and it was never a problem. Never had a problem with boot space and buggies either and I have never owned any SUV or MPV. Mostly 4 door saloons with a boot. Just like Tesla Model 3.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

Ah come on. Unless of course you have back problems or other issues. Lifting kids in and out of a normal car is easy. I've 3 kids and it was never a problem. Never had a problem with boot space and buggies either and I have never owned any SUV or MPV. Mostly 4 door saloons with a boot. Just like Tesla Model 3.

We have 3, it is 20 times easily to put into the Wagon than the eGolf

My wife won’t buy another car, has to be crossover.....nothing to do with space, just wants the height

krissovo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nothing wrong with converting a combustion car to a electric car.

Not sure why you would compare a BMW with a Nissan. Hardly a fair comparison now. Also the Leaf is designed from the ground up to be electric. They have just used the same design template as the Pulsar.

Also you dont rate a car because of a dealer?just change dealers. Plenty knocking around.

I would never listen to any guy in pub/forum. It is always BS, you say 30k and they will say 25k...

A strange number of reasons to discount a car.

BMW comparison with a leaf/e-niro etc is a fair comparison given the title of the thread. I was pointing out the differences between a purpose designed car and an adapted car. The drive is noticeable, if your happy with bland and soulless driving that’s fine and a converted front wheel drive is a good solution. I enjoy driving and I appreciate the feedback I get from well engineered cars.

I never said I would discount a car, I just adding some points I would/have considered when buying a EV. I just bought a Leaf in the last 6 weeks for the 2nd family car and disliked the process of engaging with the dealer, changing dealer would have changed nothing.....Same bull**** process they follow, up selling, negotiating the price, checking with the manager etc etc.

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We have 3, it is 20 times easily to put into the Wagon than the eGolf

My wife won’t buy another car, has to be crossover.....nothing to do with space, just wants the height

I can't really remember the time we had to lift kids into the car. It seems a long time ago. Our youngest is 11 now. Surely once the kids are 2-3 years old or so they will climb into the car by themselves?

And anyway for the average healthy adult, how is it hard to lift a 15kg (fat) toddler into a car?

tuxy

Tall cars with poor aerodynamics are popular at the moment though. Current trends is a big factor both when buying and selling.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

I can't really remember the time we had to lift kids into the car. It seems a long time ago. Our youngest is 11 now. Surely once the kids are 2-3 years old or so they will climb into the car by themselves?

And anyway for the average healthy adult, how is it hard to lift a 15kg (fat) toddler into a car?

Youngest is 2, even the 6 year old struggles with buckle

Who said I was healthy?

PS wife has back issues after a few lads forgot to notice her car and drove into the back of it at speed

Shefwedfan

krissovo wrote: »

BMW comparison with a leaf/e-niro etc is a fair comparison given the title of the thread. I was pointing out the differences between a purpose designed car and an adapted car. The drive is noticeable, if your happy with bland and soulless driving that’s fine and a converted front wheel drive is a good solution. I enjoy driving and I appreciate the feedback I get from well engineered cars.

I never said I would discount a car, I just adding some points I would/have considered when buying a EV. I just bought a Leaf in the last 6 weeks for the 2nd family car and disliked the process of engaging with the dealer, changing dealer would have changed nothing.....Same bull**** process they follow, up selling, negotiating the price, checking with the manager etc etc.

Your argument doesn’t really stand up when the eGolf is one of the best electric cars available now.....

If you have issues having to deal with people I’m sure you can buy at list off web

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your argument doesn’t really stand up when the eGolf is one of the best electric cars available now.....

Not in the context of this thread, because its WLTP range is only 219km and I'm looking for a car that will comfortably do >300km daily round trip at motoway speeds without recharging.

The BMW i3 is also out, as it seems there's no Rex any more, and the WLTP range is only 310km.

I also spent a bit of time on the BMW configurator page and remembered why I hate the BMW buying experience so much. Anything over poverty spec and the price goes through the roof.

The ID.3 might do it but is even less available that the e-Niro and M3.

For long leisure trips fast chargers are fine, but not for regular leggy business use IMO. If you need to be somewhere at a certain time, rock up at the Ionity and they're all taken, what do you do? Phone ahead and cancel? This car will replace a diesel which, though based on filthy dirty 20th century tech, is utterly reliable and completely convenient.

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

Not in the context of this thread, because its WLTP range is only 219km and I'm looking for a car that will comfortably do >300km daily round trip at motoway speeds without recharging.

The BMW i3 is also out, as it seems there's no Rex any more, and the WLTP range is only 310km.

I also spent a bit of time on the BMW configurator page and remembered why I hate the BMW buying experience so much. Anything over poverty spec and the price goes through the roof.

The ID.3 might do it but is even less available that the e-Niro and M3.

For long leisure trips fast chargers are fine, but not for regular leggy business use IMO. If you need to be somewhere at a certain time, rock up at the Ionity and they're all taken, what do you do? Phone ahead and cancel? This car will replace a diesel which, though based on filthy dirty 20th century tech, is utterly reliable and completely convenient.

No the eGolf doesnt have the range but the point was made that cars converted from combustion to electric are not good. This is not true.



I am a bit confused, you asked for recommendations for electric cars but just posted saying that charge points are no good for business?


Have you tested any electric cars for the type of journeys you are talking about?


I think it might be worthwhile.....

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am a bit confused, you asked for recommendations for electric cars but just posted saying that charge points are no good for business?

Have you tested any electric cars for the type of journeys you are talking about?

I think it might be worthwhile.....

No, but I have an M3 SR+ booked for a day in Sept for exactly this purpose.

This is a completely typical day I predict for this car (numbers from e-Niro):

- Charge overnight to 90% (58kWh).
- Drive from home (north Wicklow) to Wexford town. 110km, possible consumption: 25kWh, leaving 33kWh.
- Appointment finishes around lunchtime. Drive back home. Now at 8kWh (12.5%). Need to go into office in Dublin, round trip 60km, requires >10kWh. Fail!

...so by mid-afternoon I'm already dealing with range issues.

So the options are:

1. Charge overnight to higher than 90%, risking battery degradation.
2. Drive slower.
3. Find a destination charger in Wexford town.
4. Pay €8 for a top up at Ionity Gorey.
5. Top up for an hour at 7kW before heading in to Dublin.

Any of these options impose inconvenience that I don't have with a diesel.

The consumption figures may be off a bit, but this sort of day is done year-round including mid-winter. Maybe a bit high for summer and a bit low for winter.

If it's not Wexford it's Carlow, Waterford, Clonmel...

So I'm coming to the conclusion that the M3 LR is the best bet for this sort of usage. It has the best range and therefore imposes the least behaviour adaptations (I'll probably never need to use a public charger), there's better ride quality, cheaper tyres and lower cabin noise than the Performance on 20" wheels, and surely has to be fast enough.

Also the M3LR is probably going to be available months before the Kia.

Mike9832

If you like to drive buy the Tesla M3P

If you just want A to B with no issues, buy the eNiro

Mike9832

Lumen wrote: »

No, but I have an M3 SR+ booked for a day in Sept for exactly this purpose.

This is a completely typical day I predict for this car (numbers from e-Niro):

- Charge overnight to 90% (58kWh).
- Drive from home (north Wicklow) to Wexford town. 110km, possible consumption: 25kWh, leaving 33kWh.
- Appointment finishes around lunchtime. Drive back home. Now at 8kWh (12.5%). Need to go into office in Dublin, round trip 60km, requires >10kWh. Fail!

...so by mid-afternoon I'm already dealing with range issues.

So the options are:

1. Charge overnight to higher than 90%, risking battery degradation.
2. Drive slower.
3. Find a destination charger in Wexford town.
4. Pay €8 for a top up at Ionity Gorey.
5. Top up for an hour at 7kW before heading in to Dublin.

Any of these options impose inconvenience that I don't have with a diesel.

The consumption figures may be off a bit, but this sort of day is done year-round including mid-winter. Maybe a bit high for summer and a bit low for winter.

If it's not Wexford it's Carlow, Waterford, Clonmel...

So I'm coming to the conclusion that the M3 LR is the best bet for this sort of usage. It has the best range and therefore imposes the least behaviour adaptations (I'll probably never need to use a public charger), there's better ride quality, cheaper tyres and lower cabin noise than the Performance on 20" wheels, and surely has to be fast enough.

Also the M3LR is probably going to be available months before the Kia.

I would go with the performance model

Will depreciate less

It's a bargain at €4,000 more, looks way better, performance brakes , lowered suspension, spoiler,alloys, much quicker

Nothing comes close to it at €62,000

Your consumption of 25kWh/100km seems way too high too

Unless your really using that 450bhp

KCross

Lumen wrote: »

So the options are:

1. Charge overnight to higher than 90%, risking battery degradation.

Charge to 100% timed to complete just before you leave each morning and don’t worry about the degradation as it won’t be an issue... the car’s BMS is programmed to protect the battery so you don’t have to worry about it and our climate is ideal for Li-ion.


Have you any chance of private destination charging in Wexford or Dublin? That would alleviate a lot of your anxiety.

Lumen

KCross wrote: »

Charge to 100% timed to complete just before you leave each morning and don’t worry about the degradation as it won’t be an issue... the car’s BMS is programmed to protect the battery so you don’t have to worry about it and our climate is ideal for Li-ion.

Have you any chance of private destination charging in Wexford or Dublin? That would alleviate a lot of your anxiety.

There's a couple of ecars chargers within 10 minutes walk in Wexford, so that's an option, but I'd rather do without.

Good point about the timed charge to 100%, I remember now that 100% is only bad if you leave it at that state.

It's a shame the Ionity chargers don't have an option to pay per kWh, as a quick stop at Gorey on the way back to top up 20kWh and grab a coffee would only take 10 minutes or so, and paying the full €8 grates a bit.

edit: oh private destination charging. No.

KCross

Lumen wrote: »

There's a couple of ecars chargers within 10 minutes walk in Wexford, so that's an option, but I'd rather do without.

Good point about the timed charge to 100%, I remember now that 100% is only bad if you leave it at that state.

It's a shame the Ionity chargers don't have an option to pay per kWh, as a quick stop at Gorey on the way back to top up 20kWh and grab a coffee would only take 10 minutes or so, and paying the full €8 grates a bit.

I was stressing the word private charging. You don’t want to be using public network regularly. Any chance that your work stops in Wexford or Dublin would put in a dedicated charge point for you? That would be ideal!


Ionity... I thought a per min option is also possible via a specific RFID card?

Lumen

KCross wrote: »

I was stressing the word private charging. You don’t want to be using public network regularly. Any chance that your work stops in Wexford or Dublin would put in a dedicated charge point for you? That would be ideal!

They're more like, eh, customers. I guess if you don't ask you don't get.

KCross wrote: »

Ionity... I thought a per min option is also possible via a specific RFID card?

I've read speculation about that, but all the Ionity websites say flat rate of €8.

I'm guessing that is a recipe for conflict when parsimonious EV users want to dribble the electrons in to get their full 100% value for money.

Sabre Man

I love the Tesla navigation system, and you can press anywhere on the map to navigate there. I don't really watch traffic information closely but I think it sometimes give the impression that there is more traffic than there actually is (eg. one car drove there lately).

Another plus for the Model 3 is CCS charging at Ionity as well as superchargers, so you have one more charging option.

the culture of deference

Kia Niro and (kona) are missing most of the tech that the Leaf 3 and Tesla have.

KCross

Lumen wrote: »

I've read speculation about that, but all the Ionity websites say flat rate of €8.

I'm guessing that is a recipe for conflict when parsimonious EV users want to dribble the electrons in to get their full 100% value for money.

Yea, it’s a bad pricing model. It is their introductory offer though so expect it to change.

I’m sure others have got per min billing though as ionity have deals done with various companies. If you use Ionity account it will be €8, for now.

tl;dr - per min pricing will be available at Ionity, don’t let the €8 turn you off.

Lumen

Mike9832 wrote: »

I would go with the performance model

Will depreciate less

It's a bargain at €4,000 more, looks way better, performance brakes , lowered suspension, spoiler,alloys, much quicker

Nothing comes close to it at €62,000

Your consumption of 25kWh/100km seems way too high too

Unless your really using that 450bhp

There are number of unarguable disadvantages to the M3P on 20" wheels: worse range, more road noise, worse ride quality, and no tow hitch, and one unarguable advantage: acceleration.

I doubt the brakes are usefully better on road, since regular braking is done with regen and emergency braking is limited by tyres, not calipers. The spoiler is obviously pointless.

I wouldn't try and talk anyone out of a Performance, I just think it's a shame the power up isn't available with 18" wheels. There were a few of these "P-" cars shipped in the US, but no sign of that becoming a standard option.

Old diesel

Lumen wrote: »

There's a couple of ecars chargers within 10 minutes walk in Wexford, so that's an option, but I'd rather do without.

Good point about the timed charge to 100%, I remember now that 100% is only bad if you leave it at that state.

It's a shame the Ionity chargers don't have an option to pay per kWh, as a quick stop at Gorey on the way back to top up 20kWh and grab a coffee would only take 10 minutes or so, and paying the full €8 grates a bit.

edit: oh private destination charging. No.

Apparently there is some charge cards you can get that make Ionity cheaper - as in you pay per kwh.

Was on the using Ionity thread someone started earlier.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

It's a shame the Ionity chargers don't have an option to pay per kWh

They do. All the Ionity chargers in Europe accept the Maingau card (free) and it charges you €0,40/kWh

I've ordered one...