VW Passat B8 woes

ShiverinEskimo

Bit of a rant but also seeking some advice.

I have a 2015 VW Passat B8 estate with 67k on the clock. 1.6TDI with DSG gearbox. Bought it on June 29th 2018 with a one year warranty. Within a month I had to bring it back as I got a coolant warning light. Heater matrix corroded/blocked and had to be replaced. Was done under warranty so no big drama.

Fast forward a year later almost to the day and I drop it in for a routine service to a different VW dealer nearer home. Phone call comes and hits me with a sledge-hammer:

Fly-wheel issue which caused damage to the gear-pack. Costs 4300 (:eek:) for the repair but VW are going to cover 100% parts and 30% labour reducing it to 800.

Coolant system shows coolant discolouration so it needs a total coolant flush at a cost of 1000 (:eek:)

Minor gear oil leak from a failed seal which may not be urgent but at a cost of €400 to fix.

Service is costing €250 plus €200 odd for brake pads/discs on the rear.

So I've gone from a routine service at 65,000 kilometers to a potential €2,500 bill.

The last passat I had cost me a bomb on EGR valve replacement and faster-than-expected timing belt wear along with a few other random but expensive little issues. I made myself believe I got unlucky with that one and this one would be different but honestly I can't see why on earth I would ever go with VW again.

/rant.

Question though - I'd have thought a coolant flush would be a fairly easy thing. VW service person said it's a long process and they would have it for a couple of days to do it and that's why it costs €1000.

I'm also wondering why it wasn't done along with the heater matrix last year as they told me they changed out the coolant bottle during the job but seemingly didn't do this flush.

Any comments/advice is appreciated. As usual this has landed at the worst possible time. Missus is about to pop the second child and the house insurance renewal just landed. :rolleyes:

mickuhaha

I can't believe it would need a coolant flush at all. The coolant these days is long life. Up to 5 years. 1000 is alot for a fluid flush.

ShiverinEskimo

I'm thinking that maybe the blocked/corroded heater matrix caused the coolant to degrade and that they should have flushed it along with the repair. What I can't understand is how they managed to avoid flushing it considering they replaced the heater matrix and the coolant bottle. Surely would have lost quite a bit of coolant between the two and the work.

Hard to know.

mickuhaha

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I'm thinking that maybe the blocked/corroded heater matrix caused the coolant to degrade and that they should have flushed it along with the repair. What I can't understand is how they managed to avoid flushing it considering they replaced the heater matrix and the coolant bottle. Surely would have lost quite a bit of coolant between the two and the work.

Hard to know.

I would agree they would normally drain all the coolant to prevent it pouring into the cabin.

bazz26

If it were me I'd agree to get the work done that VW are contributing towards, the dmf and gearbox. I would however take the car to a good independent garage then for a second opinion on the other stuff. If they advise the same then at least they won't be as expensive as a main dealer. I cannot see the benefit in getting the other work done at a main dealer on a 4 year old car that no longer has any warranty once your paying for it totally yourself. Same goes with the servicing.

ShiverinEskimo

I change cars every three years due to mileage. I've always services them at main dealers ever since fixed price servicing came in but out of the two Passats I've owned now I've had relative nightmares. Seems that if you so much as sneeze at it you're down thousands.

Forgot to mention - the clockspring went on it last month. Sourced a genuine one, or at least an incredible fake, from Poland for €120 and had it fitted by an independent mechanic for €50. VW wanted €380 just for the part.

I didn't even know what a clockspring was. If I can thank VW for anything it's for educating me on car parts such is my experience with them over the last 4 years of owning one.

Car99

Take it back to the original VW dealer where the matrix was replaced .

Book it in for the same service and see what they find.

Then you can argue about the coolant if they flag it.

If they don't flag it produce your service report from the VW dealer than wants to flush the coolant for 1k and see what they say. Someones lying to you and you're the one paying for it.

Toyotafanboi

The coolant is a known issue with them at this stage. Usually the heater matrix blocking up is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is the coolant itself or a combination of the coolant and the silica feeder bag in the expansion bottle.

The VW flush procedure is done with a special detergent and each flush sequence, by the book, takes around 3 hours to follow through iirc and although VW dont advise it, at ground level, best practise is to flush the system at least twice as once doesn't usually cut the mustard, excuse the pun. Then if you have to replace the expansion tank or heater matrix aswell it can easily turn into 9+ hours work.

The issue I'd say you're having is your flush was done only once or done badly and all the sediment hasn't been cleared and its contaminated the new coolant. Either that or the coolant wasnt replaced with G13++ coolant at the right concentration. If you have hot air in the cabin and the coolant isn't too dirty, I'd be tempted to leave it be. If you look at the expansion tank in any of those 1.6/ 2.0 diesels the coolant will be slightly blackened. As long as you have hot air and no warning lights I'd probably leave it be.

As for the cluth pack, did you have a complaint with the car or did they just bring it to your attention? I'd probably get it done either way as they do give bother and that's a decent goodwill contribution, even if you didn't feel an issue with it now, this is a much better situation than you noticing a defect yourself 9-12 months down the line when the problem is worsening and then getting no goodwill offering.

Any car is going to need brake pads and discs so I'd forgive the car that and you have little choice in getting that done really. I'd qualify the gearbox leak a bit more, they are prone to sweating a little oil around the drive shaft oil seals if that's all it is, I'd leave it be, you rarely see full on failure or major leaks from them. If its leaking from the mechatronics on the other hand, I'd have that sorted as that can progress to bigger problems and ask for goodwill on it, if it is the mechatronics too.

ShiverinEskimo

Cheers. That's all great info.

The clutch pack was brought to my attention. Now I was asked did I not notice a rattle when driving it, that apparently there's quite an obvious rattle. I honestly didn't but the way they are talking about it makes it seem like it's really obvious. Feel a little silly if it's that obvious because it's therefore something I could/should have noticed sooner before my warranty expired. Apparently they can say with some certainty that the issue with the flywheel has been happening months due to the damage to the gear pack.

It's all so sickening.

Toyotafanboi

Ah sure look, it is what it is now.

To be fair to you, and them, they are hearing and listening for those rattles day in day out, they'd have a finer ear for them than a layman trying to distinguish one rattle from another in a diesel car. You take it to them for a service for their expert opinion etc.

Theres little to be said for taking your chances though, the problem is there, it's unlikely to fix itself or get better over time and you wont get it done cheaper elsewhere.

Theres a bullet that needs biting on this one IMO.

ShiverinEskimo

Ah yea. I'm defo getting the flywheel fix carried out. I'll look into the coolant flush a bit more in the mean time. The gear oil leak they reckon can wait until next service (xmas) so see if it's something that warrants work.

Edit - Apparently they've ruled out the Mechatronics issue. They say my DSG gearbox is the newer version that doesn't have the Mechatronics issue previous builds had.

Toyotafanboi

That's a good call with the gearbox oil leak. Post a pic of your expansion tank, one of the outside and one with the cap off (make sure the engine is cold) looking down into the coolant and we'll give you an idea of the coolant flush necessity.

Micky 32

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The coolant is a known issue with them at this stage. Usually the heater matrix blocking up is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is the coolant itself or a combination of the coolant and the silica feeder bag in the expansion bottle.

Is this an issue with the B8's? I never heard of it until i read this post. I myself have a 2.0 TDI remapped nudging 300bhp with twice the mileage as the OP and it has been flawless, no issues with the DSG either.

CoBo55

Micky 32 wrote: »

Is this an issue with the B8's? I never heard of it until i read this post. I myself have a 2.0 TDI remapped nudging 300bhp with twice the mileage as the OP and it has been flawless, no issues with the DSG either.

Nudging 300 bhp... Through a DSG no less, gotta love the intyweb lads, gotta love it... Lower than a snakes belly too eh?

bazz26

CoBo55 wrote: »

Nudging 300 bhp... Through a DSG no less, gotta love the intyweb lads, gotta love it... Lower than a snakes belly too eh?

I think he has the 2.0 TDI bi-turbo 4motion version with 240bhp from stock and remapped to 300bhp. 60bhp from a stage one ecu remap is pretty standard these days.

Micky 32

bazz26 wrote: »

I think he has the 2.0 TDI bi-turbo 4motion version with 240bhp from stock and remapped to 300bhp. 60bhp from a stage one ecu remap is pretty standard these days.

Correct

Lord Nikon

bazz26 wrote: »

I think he has the 2.0 TDI bi-turbo 4motion version with 240bhp from stock and remapped to 300bhp. 60bhp from a stage one ecu remap is pretty standard these days.

Those bi-turbo 4motion models are rare enough, and he didn't specify if it was one.

Brian Scan

CoBo55 wrote: »

Nudging 300 bhp... Through a DSG no less, gotta love the intyweb lads, gotta love it... Lower than a snakes belly too eh?

bazz26 wrote: »

I think he has the 2.0 TDI bi-turbo 4motion version with 240bhp from stock and remapped to 300bhp. 60bhp from a stage one ecu remap is pretty standard these days.

Micky 32 wrote: »

Correct

gotta love the intyweb lads

Toyotafanboi

Micky 32 wrote: »

Is this an issue with the B8's? I never heard of it until i read this post. I myself have a 2.0 TDI remapped nudging 300bhp with twice the mileage as the OP and it has been flawless, no issues with the DSG either.

Yeah, not really really popular but definitely a thing. Most common in Golfs and Passats but can happen to anything using the life long coolant. Havnt seen it in a 4mo model but they aren't common and I cant think of a reason it would be immune.

Easiest way to check is if the coolant is turning black or has a black tinge to it, the coolant should be vivid pink.

Micky 32

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yeah, not really really popular but definitely a thing. Most common in Golfs and Passats but can happen to anything using the life long coolant. Havnt seen it in a 4mo model but they aren't common and I cant think of a reason it would be immune.

Easiest way to check is if the coolant is turning black or has a black tinge to it, the coolant should be vivid pink.

Would changing the coolant regularly help prevent the clogging? The cooling system is a bit different on mine compared to the normal 1.6/2.0 TDI. Mine has a different and larger coolant reservoir and an extra electric pump, but i'm sure the coolant and matrix are the same.

Toyotafanboi

Honestly I dont think even VW fully understand why this is happening so I wont act like i do, in terms of preventative maintenance. If the coolant is a good colour and the silica bag inside the expansion tank is intact then I'd probably leave well enough alone and just keep an eye on it over time, make sure its staying a good colour.

Some people take the silica bag out permanently and change back to 60k km coolant changes but with the relatively complexity of changing coolant on one of these, even a 1.6/ 2.0 mono turbo it's hard to know if it's worth the hassle when it may not even happen to you.

ShiverinEskimo

The plot thickens.

Left the car in to get the fly-wheel and clutch/gear pack done under the RA offer they gave me for a cost of around 800 euro (100% parts/30% labour covered by VW). Garage stripped the car and say that there is in fact no damage to the clutch/gear pack so it's just the fly-wheel needing to be replaced. But now VW are saying the fly-wheel alone is not covered on the RA as it's not considered a life-time part so instead of 800 to strip and replaced the entire transmission it's going to cost 1500 to replace just the fly-wheel.

Boils my piss that less damage can result in more money to fix it cos of their ridiculous logic toward poorly designed parts. Last VW I'll ever buy.

Had I driven further and by chance caused more damage I'd be paying half what I've to pay now. But had I driven to 70k apparently nothing would have been covered at all. 70k is their magic number outside of warranty it seems. I'm supposedly lucky my car has 67k. Can't be too many 4 year old cars outside of a 3 year warranty with less than 70k on the clock.

mickdw

**** them. They are taking the piss out of you.
They diagnosed what was needed, got the go ahead and started work.

I'd be paying them 800 or telling them to put it back as was.

ShiverinEskimo

In fairness they didn't diagnose it completely. Everything up to now with the local dealer was on the basis that they would strip it down and make their observations/diagnosis. It's not the garage I'm pissed at either it's VW themselves. These decisions are being made from on-high and supposedly they see it as the following:

If it was going to cost 4300 to fix they would cover 75% of it but if it's going to cost 1500 to fix they won't cover anything. The garage send them a whole raft of pictures and videos to an assessor in VW head office and he or she casts their decision based on the pics. Because theres no evidence of damage to the gear pack, they aren't going to cover the repair. They were basically covering the whole transmission if the whole transmission was fecked, but since it's not, they aren't.

I've been on to customer care etc. to no avail. Politely told I'm outside of warranty so f**k off basically.

kennethsmyth

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

In fairness they didn't diagnose it completely. Everything up to now with the local dealer was on the basis that they would strip it down and make their observations/diagnosis. It's not the garage I'm pissed at either it's VW themselves. These decisions are being made from on-high and supposedly they see it as the following:

If it was going to cost 4300 to fix they would cover 75% of it but if it's going to cost 1500 to fix they won't cover anything. The garage send them a whole raft of pictures and videos to an assessor in VW head office and he or she casts their decision based on the pics. Because theres no evidence of damage to the gear pack, they aren't going to cover the repair. They were basically covering the whole transmission if the whole transmission was fecked, but since it's not, they aren't.

I've been on to customer care etc. to no avail. Politely told I'm outside of warranty so f**k off basically.

Time to tell them for 1500 youll see them in court

jmreire

I've just bought a 2019 VW Passat estate B8, and so far so good...( early days yet ) We have several VAG veh's in the family, going back over many years, and all in all, very happy with them..Roomsters, Octavia's, Superbs, Teracco's, Arteon and now latest addition ( 2nd one) Passat B8. With the Superbs and Octavia, I've already changed the expansion tanks for ones without the Silicate, and will instead change the ant-freeeze down the road. But with the newer Passat, I'm wondering is the silicate sachet still a problem? When I was getting the replacement tank for one of them earlier on, it had the silicate bag in place, so wondering if its a newer design? Or even if its the same, just to replace it every 3 years or so as the bags seem to last at least that long. I've heard of some people removing the bags, but so far in the ones that I've replaced, the bags are well caged in and not removable ( unless you had some very surgical type instruments.

CoBo55

Easier to just replace the bottle. The newer bottles are double skinned with the silicate in the cavity.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516728#Comment_119516728

Yes, replacing the bottle is a simple enough, but has the new "cage" meant the end of the clogged up matrix? As I understand it, the clogged matrix was the result of the silicate itself leaking out of the bag? So unless they have fixed the problem of the leaking bags, there's still a problem? And even when they do leak, and clog the matrix, surely there has to be a way to flush out the matrix? Maybe some additive is available to clean the matrix, and wash out the silicate?

mickdw

This madness is still going on. Surely the simple answer in general is to install a new bottle without the crystals. Too much risk for little gain with that system.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517529#Comment_119517529

Prevention is better than cure with these especially the silica bag bottles, trying to flush out all the gunge can be difficult. The jury is still out on the newer type double skinned bottle. Actually I'd better check my own car and see what bottle it has.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517611#Comment_119517611

100%

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518303#Comment_119518303

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517611#Comment_119517611

Yes, and that's what I've already done with two of the Skoda's, but with hindsight, if I was to do it again, then I'd replace the old bottles with brand new ones, complete with new silicate bags. They should be leak proof for at least 3 years, and at around €30 each, not very expensive maintenance. Plus, the silicate has an important function within the system, so routine replacement would solve both issues.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519740#Comment_119519740

Good point there, killing two birds with one stone you could say. Are the silicate bottles main dealer only? If you could get the silicate bag on its own you'd be sorted, just change the bag on the bottle you've taken out and swop it over in 3 years time. Jmreire exchange bottle service 👍👍

mickdw

I don't know. I don't think the bags are bulletproof for 3 years either.

I'd go without the bag and do the coolant change.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119521498#Comment_119521498

HA Ha...... no they are not main dealer only, they can be bought at the motor factors too, but funny thing,,, the ones the factors sell come with new silicate enclosed, but the ones from the main dealer ship don't. I bought the one without the silicate, but if I were doing it again ( and I will) I would have gone for the one with the silicate inside. Strange that VW, now that they are aware of the issue have not included it as standard in the service schedule.

But I was talking to a friend of mine today, VW mechanic I've known for many years who went independent and has a nice business built up, and we were talking about this silicate issue, and he tells me that while he's aware of it, he has yet to come across a case. It can happen I guess. Still, I'm a firm believer in prevention being better than a cure, next year, I'll change the tank in my Passat, For the sake of €30, its well worth it.

CoBo55

A friend of mine has a 152 Octavia with the one side of the car heating problem, a sure sign of the matrix blocking up, the coolant looks like coffee... He commutes to Dublin from Wexford, it's going to be a long winter 💨💨 he isn't a man to spend the bobs on car maintenance.

Had a look at my own, no silicate in the iV, in either bottles.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522891#Comment_119522891

And what's the color like in yours? Pure pink G13? Your friend will have choices to make when the winter comes......spend a few bob, or wrap up well when he is driving. I've never had to replace a matrix in a Skoda ( or other VAG vehicle) but if my memory serves me right, during the assembly, the matrix is installed in the dash before the whole dash assembly is fitted to the car. so its a bit of a job.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523151#Comment_119523151

It's purple. He's going to get a mate to try reverse flushing the matrix and then bleeding the system. I warned him it could end in disaster...

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524506#Comment_119524506

You would think that simply removing the inlet /outlet hoses on the heater and flushing the hell out of it would do ? Maybe adding some kind of detergent to the flushing? But the whole system needs to be flushed. And from what I understand about it, that's not so simple..it involves connecting the car to a computer ( Ross-Tech??) and after that its a step by step procedure opening thermostats etc. I think I'll stick with new bottles, with new silicate bags every 3 years or so. You gave him good advice. I'd be telling him the same, unless his mate has good VAG experience, I would not be letting him near it.

Paremon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119522477#Comment_119522477

Hi jmreire, would you mind DM-ing me the contact details of your indy VW mechanic friend please?