How do I help my elderly neighbour?

zegco

Hi everyone, I joined up here for help cause I don't know where else to ask without starting something.

So I've been living in a small housing estate for four and a half years, and my next door neighbours have always been lovely. An elderly couple, we always exchange Christmas gifts and they came to my grandads wake, etc. The wife-- let's call her Mary for now-- is particularly I'll and frail with kidney issues and autoimmune issues. She's also bipolar.

Last Sunday she knocked on my door which isn't strange, she just wants to chat sometimes, but that day she came saying she'd been at the hospital the night before as her husband has been abusing her for years, and she showed me some bruises. She said she spoke to the Gardaí there and signed a statement. She says they asked her if she wanted them to arrest him then and she said no as she was worried about how she would get home as he had the house key and she doesn't drive, so they gave her an advice pack with information about the local domestic abuse services and stuff.

I didn't know what to do so after she went home that evening I called the local domestic abuse services for advice. They told me to put her on the phone to them when she next came over. She came over again on Monday and retold what she'd told me on Sunday almost as if she didn't remember already telling me, but I put her on the phone to them anyway and they made her an outreach appointment, and my mother offered to drive her there and back.

She came over again on Tuesday repeating the story, and I said that her that her appointment on Thursday should be a good help and I was sorry that I didn't know what else to do. She seemed to have no memory of the appointment or of being on the phone to them.

The same thing happened again on Wednesday, again with no memory of her appointment or of speaking to them, and vague memory of what she had already told me, with some details now being different.

My problem now is that I'm wondering how much of what she is saying is true. Whether her husband is abusing her, or if this is all just happening in her mind are both pretty bad scenarios, but I don't know what to do. I would stay out of it, but she keeps coming to me looking for help and support and I don't know what to do. They have no children and she has few family and none of them are local, so there's no family I can pass this on to, and I don't want to discuss it with her husband in case of the chance that what she's saying is true. I don't know of any services that I can call for advice, or healthcare professionals, as I'm not a family member. I was reading citizens advice and I couldn't find out much there either.

Does anyone know what I should do?

wiggle16

That's an awful position to be in OP.

The only other thing I can think of would be to speak to her GP. The GP will know her medical background, for instance if she might be in the early stages of dementia, and will be able to refer it further if they think there is cause for concern. They should also be able to treat it in confidence.

I know you don't want to put her husband in that position if she is making this up, but if he is innocent then he needs to know what she's saying to others.

I assume you've already come across the information in this link but I'll put it here anyway https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/carersrelatives/protecting-older-people-from-abuse.html#susp

Another day

I agree that it may well be dementia. Having a family member with it, this ringing bells. Short term memory is one of the first things to go. Personally I would make a quick call to your local public health nurse and ask for them to check on the couple. With elderly people this is routine. It would be awfully sad if her husband was investigated and not guilty of anything. My family member was constantly falling and banging themselves causing bruising which could have got family members into trouble if investigated badly. Be a nice neighbour and make the call.

zegco

Thanks for the advice guys. She did go to her appointment with the local domestic abuse service yesterday and she was with them for about five hours. She came back to my house when she was finished and I made her some dinner as she hadn't had a chance to eat. They called me afterwards to tell me that she had given them permission to call me and update me on the situation.

They said they had prepared an apartment that would suit her needs where she could stay with them for a few days but she turned it down, so they've decide to contact "other services" such as her community mental health nurse and her psychiatrist. They offered her another appointment for Tuesday and apparently she has an appointment on Wednesday with her psychiatrist that her mental health nurse will also be present at, and they contacted the Gardaí and confirmed that they did meet with her at the hospital last Saturday and offer to arrest her husband, but she didn't make a formal statement like she seemed to believe she had.

They told me they were very unhappy with leaving the situation as it currently is but that there's nothing anyone can do it she is offered help and turns it down, but assured me that they will get these "other services" on board because she has "complex needs" and they believe the situation needs to be dealt with one way or another. It seems to me that they might also have some doubts which is why they're trying to refer her elsewhere. In the meantime the woman who spoke to me said it might be a few more days of her calling over to my house for support and to hang in there.

I honestly haven't seen her husband in person since she spoke to me last Sunday; I've seen his car gone a few times so he's out and about but I do feel terrible for him if none of this is happening, and terrible for her if it is, because of the position I'm in. Then I feel kinda bad for feeling sorry for myself when she's obviously requiring SOME sort of help, haha.

Part of me wants to go to my mother's house for a few days to avoid the pressure (cause I'm on summer holidays from college right now and my work is part time so I'm home a lot) but whether it's happening or not she seems to see me as someone who can support her so I'd feel bad. At least her mental health nurse and psychiatrist are aware of the situation now because I'm way out of my depth here.

leggo

This breaks my heart. It sounds a lot like dementia and, yeah, I’d have questions myself if it were true. Like could she have gotten the bruises naturally then woken up, not known where she’d gotten them and just convinced herself of this story? A relative of mine has it and it’s sad sometimes when you see them try fill in the blanks, they can come up with some wild stories that just aren’t possible. As time goes on, it becomes very clear what’s true and what’s not, but in the early stages they can seem completely compos mentis in a given moment.

It sounds like you’re doing everything perfectly OP and you should be proud of yourself. She’s very lucky to have a neighbour like you there. There’s only so much you can help someone and it’s worth remembering that you’re not fully responsible for this person. You’ve done a lot already and there’s nothing more you can really add to that list. Sometimes situations are just horrible and there’s nothing to be done beyond acknowledging that it is horrible.

LegacyUser

I know you didn't start the thread looking for a pat on the back, but have one anyway, you've been an exceptional neighbour already and she's lucky to such a decent human being to help her.

wiggle16

I think you've done all you can do. You're a good person and a good neighbour, fair play. It isn't easy. My mother looked after our next door neighbour for many, many years. My mother helped her get her shopping, made her dinners at christmas, easter etc, got onto the local health nurse to get her assessed for dementia when the time came, helped get her placed in a nursing home when it became clear she could no longer look after herself, visited her in the home up til the day she died. No one else would have done all those things, the woman had no one to look out for her (though the family came out of the woodwork when she died, but that's another story). Too many people turn away and let vulnerable people become someone else's problem.

All that being said, you are not responsible for her and you have gone above and beyond for her - I think you have done all you can do. For the moment you might keep them appraised if anything changes, if she gets worse etc, but don't get involved any further - take the time away if you want to. It really sounds like she needs to be assessed for dementia tbh, and it sounds like that might be whats happening there in the background. I suspect they are referring her to other services because they can see she is not competent enough for them to help or deal with - it doesn't sound like she knows what's going on really.

Fair play to you once again, but take a step back. I hope things work out for this lady.

ILoveYourVibes

There are these people.

https://www.ncpop.ie/whatiselderabuse

You could also take her to a GP yourself and discuss it there. Her GP can't tell you. But you can bring her and maybe ask to go in with her.

zegco

Hey guys. Returning with an update to how this situation ended and to thank everyone for advice.

After her appointment with the domestic violence services here, I spoke to the woman who dealt with my neighbor. We both agreed to track down other services for her as it turned out my initial worry about her mental health was correct. Turns out nothing was happening with her husband and I'm really glad I continued to navigate the situation carefully with regards to that, didn't get Gards involved or otherwise put her husband in a situation that would cause him problems for something he didn't do.

My neighbor is home this week after an extended stay in the psychiatric unit, she's in close contact with her mental health nurse who does frequent house calls, and back to normal with her husband who's supported her the entire time she was getting treatment. I haven't spoken to him much about it and I haven't spoken with him about what she told me as I don't want everything that's happened to cause further hurt to him, but for now everyone is fine and everything is good. My neighbor is getting the treatment and support that she needed.

Thanks everyone again for the advice, I genuinely wasn't sure how to handle this but I'm glad to say it all turned out well!

leggo

And that’s largely down to your sense and delicacy in dealing with it OP. It’s sad that your neighbour is going through this, but it could’ve gone a lot worse if not for you so well done.

Another day

Well done op. Neighbour of the year! So glad all worked out well and she is doing well. We all need neighbours like you.

zegco

Bit of a sad end to this story now.

Got home from college at 2:30pm to see two ambulances and two Garda cars outside next door. Saw husband standing outside in tears and he told me she had passed away during her afternoon nap. Paramedics said looks like she took a heart attack in her sleep, he went to wake her from her nap and couldn't so he called them.

It's a bit of a shock, she'd been doing so well. I do housework for her at the weekends and she was in great form showing me all her birthday cards as she just turned 62 last week. Been a busy day after the hospital undertakers took her away at about 4pm, helping her husband and some family clean and get tea and coffee supplies, etc.

I'm back in my own house now where it's quiet and for some reason thought of this thread. Not even sure why I'm posting this update since it's unrelated to her issues that I originally started the thread for advice on, guess I'm just a bit lost now.

fineso.mom

Ah, that's sad OP. You will probably have a busy few days ahead . Mind yourself. Im glad there are people like you in the world.

leggo

zegco wrote: »

Bit of a sad end to this story now.

Got home from college at 2:30pm to see two ambulances and two Garda cars outside next door. Saw husband standing outside in tears and he told me she had passed away during her afternoon nap. Paramedics said looks like she took a heart attack in her sleep, he went to wake her from her nap and couldn't so he called them.

It's a bit of a shock, she'd been doing so well. I do housework for her at the weekends and she was in great form showing me all her birthday cards as she just turned 62 last week. Been a busy day after the hospital undertakers took her away at about 4pm, helping her husband and some family clean and get tea and coffee supplies, etc.

I'm back in my own house now where it's quiet and for some reason thought of this thread. Not even sure why I'm posting this update since it's unrelated to her issues that I originally started the thread for advice on, guess I'm just a bit lost now.

Sorry to hear OP. If it makes you feel any better, she was very lucky to have you as a neighbour and your help no doubt made the difficult last few months of her life somewhat easier and you were clearly a source of positivity and support in her life. We all have our time but we don’t all have that, so when the shock and sadness wears off I hope you feel better about yourself for having been there for her when she needed someone.

Ursus Horribilis

Sorry to read this sad update. Your neighbour was lucky to have you in her life. There are a lot of people who barely know their next door neighbour's names, let alone play any part in their lives. "Mary" was lucky to have you looking out for her and I'm sure that brought her some comfort. She liked you enough to let you do the housework and to show you her birthday cards. Don't ever estimate how much that means to people. You sound like a lovely kind person. Don't ever lose that - there isn't enough kindness in this world.

JupiterKid

Hi OP, I had been following this thread the past couple of weeks. Very sorry to hear about your neighbour’s passing. 62 is pretty young to die these days. I hope this lady passed away peacefully. You sound like a fantastic neighbour - looking out for others without being too intrusive.

I do have a question to ask. Was it confirmed your neighbour had dementia? If so 62 is very young to have that condition.

I have a next door neighbour (we both live in ground floor apartments beside each other) and she is a single lady in her 70s. She is very kind and gentle and remembers my late grandparents with great fondness when they lived in my apartment over two decades ago. They both moved into the complex when it was brand new back in the 1970s.

In the past couple of years she has become noticeably more frail and does not go out in the day as often as she used to. I call on her every couple of weeks to check if she is okay and if she needs anything or for me to get things for her but she politely declines my offers. She has a married sister who calls on her a couple of times a month and has her over for Christmas and goes on holidays with her for a week each year. I would like to think that I could be of help to her if she ever required it.

Again, sorry to hear of your neighbour’s passing. You were a very good person to her in her hour of need.

zegco

JupiterKid wrote: »

Hi OP, I had been following this thread the past couple of weeks. Very sorry to hear about your neighbour’s passing. 62 is pretty young to die these days. I hope this lady passed away peacefully. You sound like a fantastic neighbour - looking out for others without being too intrusive.

I do have a question to ask. Was it confirmed your neighbour had dementia? If so 62 is very young to have that condition.

I have a next door neighbour (we both live in ground floor apartments beside each other) and she is a single lady in her 70s. She is very kind and gentle and remembers my late grandparents with great fondness when they lived in my apartment over two decades ago. They both moved into the complex when it was brand new back in the 1970s.

In the past couple of years she has become noticeably more frail and does not go out in the day as often as she used to. I call on her every couple of weeks to check if she is okay and if she needs anything or for me to get things for her but she politely declines my offers. She has a married sister who calls on her a couple of times a month and has her over for Christmas and goes on holidays with her for a week each year. I would like to think that I could be of help to her if she ever required it.

Again, sorry to hear of your neighbour’s passing. You were a very good person to her in her hour of need.

Thanks everyone for the kind words - it has definitely been a busy day. It still hasn't sunk in that she's not next door? Even though I was over there helping clean and get the house ready for a wake, part of me expects her to be back in a day or two.

It was not confirmed that she had dementia, and I don't think myself that's what was wrong with her during her earlier incident. I was already aware that she was bipolar, and given that after her stay in the psych unit she was back to her usual old self without any hint of confusion makes me think it was part of the bipolar cycle. Maybe she hadn't been taking her medication as much as she should have been and the monitored medication in the psych unit was all she needed.

I haven't talked to her husband about her treatment beyond both of us talking about being grateful that she was getting treatment at the time, so this is just my suspicion, but she didn't have dementia.

I hope things go okay with your neighbor; I would say just keep doing what your doing, eventually it will sink in that if she needs something she needn't be worried about asking, so just keep offering every now and again.