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Seanachai

Is the term right wing being misused\overused? It seems to be used to describe people who are anti-authoritarian, pro welfare state, national health care etc but are against open borders. I fell out with a friend recently who said that my views had become too right wing, my understanding of somebody being right or far-right is being in favour of little or no restrictions on markets, extreme nationalism and closed or almost closed borders.

blanch152

Labels, particularly negative labels, are used in political debate to dehumanize and delegitimise valid points and arguments when a substantive response is difficult or impossible.

The use of "partitionist" and "anti-UI demographic" in the Northern Irish threads is a good example of this kind of usage.

"Right-wing" is also used in the same way, as if being right-wing is somehow wrong or less good than being "left-wing".

Seanachai

blanch152 wrote: »

Labels, particularly negative labels, are used in political debate to dehumanize and delegitimise valid points and arguments when a substantive response is difficult or impossible.

The use of "partitionist" and "anti-UI demographic" in the Northern Irish threads is a good example of this kind of usage.

"Right-wing" is also used in the same way, as if being right-wing is somehow wrong or less good than being "left-wing".

I don't consider myself particularly right wing, on crime and punishment maybe, most of time I have heard it used online or in person though, it's been in a derogatory way. There's a connection in Ireland between left wing and social liberalism, support for the underdog etc.

I'm finding people my own age and millennials who identify as being left to be less tolerant and live and let live than those who would be more conservative. But even conservative conjures up images of rosary beads and misery.

Sonics2k

Labels are inherently overused in most informal debates.

Taking a look through any given "PC gone mad thread" you'll see loads of "Libtards" "Looney lefties" and so on. It's certainly an issue on both sides, but I honestly rarely see people using the term "right-wing" in a disparaging way, more to define a persons view point.

Seanachai

Sonics2k wrote: »

Labels are inherently overused in most informal debates.

Taking a look through any given "PC gone mad thread" you'll see loads of "Libtards" "Looney lefties" and so on. It's certainly an issue on both sides, but I honestly rarely see people using the term "right-wing" in a disparaging way, more to define a persons view point.

There are a lot of labels being thrown about, I do think some of the modern left have gone off the edge of a cliff with offence culture and identity politics though. I have heard right wing used as an insult in work, the pub and on public transport etc. I'm kind of puzzled when I get it from people, I've always had an anarchist kind of position with an appreciation that anarchism is unlikely to be applied anytime soon. But the anarchists don't want me because you can't be an anarchist unless you're for fully open borders apparently.

Sonics2k

Seanachai wrote: »

There are a lot of labels being thrown about, I do think some of the modern left have gone off the edge of a cliff with offence culture and identity politics though. I have heard right wing used as an insult in work, the pub and on public transport etc. I'm kind of puzzled when I get it from people, I've always had an anarchist kind of position with an appreciation that anarchism is unlikely to be applied anytime soon. But the anarchists don't want me because you can't be an anarchist unless you're for fully open borders apparently.

I'm oddly inclined to agree. While I'd absolutely consider myself Socially Liberal, I'm no fan of the "far left" as some would put it. Ironically many of their views are rather fascist, eg "Join us or you're the enemy.".

However, the exact same has happened on the right. Republican (in the US) basically used to just mean small Government and Free Market, now however it is intrinsically tied with right-wing, Christian fundamentalist, gun-toting bigots. That's not to say all Republican think this way, but it certainly has become the vocal ones.

The kind of people that proclaim AOC to be a socialist, when she really really isn't.

peddlelies

Sonics2k wrote: »

Labels are inherently overused in most informal debates.

Taking a look through any given "PC gone mad thread" you'll see loads of "Libtards" "Looney lefties" and so on. It's certainly an issue on both sides, but I honestly rarely see people using the term "right-wing" in a disparaging way, more to define a persons view point.

Publications like the Guardian do it all the time.

Recent example

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/24/boris-johnson-takes-his-revenge-and-sacks-over-half-the-cabinet

"Johnson shows ruthless streak as he packs team with Brexiters and rightwingers"

Boris Johnson has signalled his ruthless determination to deliver Brexit and stoked speculation about an early general election by sacking more than half of Theresa May’s cabinet and packing his team with Vote Leave veterans and rightwing free marketers.

Critics swiftly labelled Johnson’s new administration the most rightwing since the 1980s.

government is shaping up to be the worst since Thatcher – packed full of extreme Brexiteers and rabid rightwingers who want to drag us back to a bygone era.”

Former Tory MP Nick Boles, who quit the party over his colleagues’ failure to compromise on Brexit, tweeted: “The hard right has taken over the Conservative Party.

Here's one of their many smear attempts

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

Headline: How dangerous is Jordan B Peterson, the rightwing professor who 'hit a hornets' nest'?

rossie1977

Seanachai wrote: »

I fell out with a friend recently who said that my views had become too right wing, my understanding of somebody being right or far-right is being in favour of little or no restrictions on markets, extreme nationalism and closed or almost closed borders.

Extreme nationalism can be far left or far right. The Chinese are extremely nationalistic right now. The Russians were during communist rule.

Open borders again isn't an extreme right or left viewpoint. China is making it more and more difficult for foreigners to move there and next to impossible unless you are highly qualified in certain areas and speak language to certain level. Even getting into North Korea as a tourist is difficult give how closed off that society is

What are characteristics of the far right
1. Identify a certain group of people as enemies/scapegoats and then use that group as a unifying cause.
2. Distain for human rights.
3. Glorification of the military
4. Rampant sexism
5. Obsession with crime and punishment feeling current system is far too lenient or police to soft.
6. Belief that religion should play big role in daily life and government
7.they believe corporate power should be protected or increased while labour power reduced or eliminated altogether.
8. Usually complete distain of intellectuals that don't share their viewpoints.

Obviously some of those points also refer to those on far left also.

Seanachai

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm oddly inclined to agree. While I'd absolutely consider myself Socially Liberal, I'm no fan of the "far left" as some would put it. Ironically many of their views are rather fascist, eg "Join us or you're the enemy.".

However, the exact same has happened on the right. Republican (in the US) basically used to just mean small Government and Free Market, now however it is intrinsically tied with right-wing, Christian fundamentalist, gun-toting bigots. That's not to say all Republican think this way, but it certainly has become the vocal ones.

The kind of people that proclaim AOC to be a socialist, when she really really isn't.

I'm socially liberal up until it comes to punishment for crime, I'm pro reform where I think it would work though.

I'm torn on drug legalisation, while I think some could use substances in moderation, the state would have to pick up the pieces for those that inevitably wouldn't. People that want to base policy on scripture dictated or channelled through a desert god should not be let next nor near government.

I'm also a doubter about man-made global warming, which is as bad as being a creationist in some circles

I think AOC is probably a well intentioned woman, but she's hysterical about identity politics.

Seanachai

rossie1977 wrote: »

Extreme nationalism can be far left or far right. The Chinese are extremely nationalistic right now. The Russians were during communist rule.

Open borders again isn't an extreme right or left viewpoint. China is making it more and more difficult for foreigners to move there and next to impossible unless you are highly qualified in certain areas and speak language to certain level. Even getting into North Korea is difficult give how closed off that society is

What are characteristics of the far right
1. Identify a certain group of people as enemies/scapegoats and then use that group as a unifying cause.
2. Distain for human rights.
3. Glorification of the military
4. Rampant sexism
5. Obsession with crime and punishment feeling current system is far too lenient or police to soft.
6. Belief that religion should play big role in daily life and government
7.they believe corporate power should be protected or increased while labour power reduced or eliminated altogether.
8. Usually complete distain of intellectuals that don't share their viewpoints.

Obviously some of those points also refer to those on far left also.

No 5 is the only one there that I'd sympathise with, I think organised crime, both underworld and white collar is given way too much leniency by society. I want criminals to fear the knock on the door. I also believe that police corruption is tolerated too much.