help with tractor

samjames

changed the rubber hoses going to each injector on a ford 7000 and bled it but now wont start at all, will turn over but cant get it to start up,plenty of diesel, maybe im bleeding it wrong...... i open the nut on inector pump and turn over til i get fuel then bled each of the four injectors by opening one at a time until each is showing fuel coming then close and move on to next one....is that the right way as not working?

blue5000

Start bleeding it at the fuel filter first, close up the pipes/bolts and follow the diesel doing the injector last, 1 injector is usually enough. The pipes going to the injector are usually steel not rubber, are you sure you haven't opened the return pipes?

samjames

blue5000 wrote: »

Start bleeding it at the fuel filter first, close up the pipes/bolts and follow the diesel doing the injector last, 1 injector is usually enough. The pipes going to the injector are usually steel not rubber, are you sure you haven't opened the return pipes?

hi and thanks, so i bled at the filter first- there a wingnut at bottom of mine so ill open that then...

the pipes im talking about are the pipes under the battery that go from one injector to the other, these are the rubber type about 5inches long that i replaced as looked perished,

TheBoyConor

They are the leak off pipes. You can't bleed it with them.

If you only replaced the leak off pipes then there was no need to bleed the system at all as they are basically only a drain for excess fuel that leaks up through the annulus between the needle and the injector casing.

Anyway, since you have now let air into the system you need to bleed at the filter first. Don't use the wingnut at the bottom. that is only for letting out water that might accumulate. Slacken the bleed nut on top of the filter. pump fuel up by hand with the lift pump until it runs free of bubbles.

Then loosen off 2 injector pipes at the injector. Don't disconnect completely or pull on the pipe as if you get shít into it you will fúck up the injector.
Press the cold start button if there is one. Full throttle and crank the engine until fuel is flowing out at the injector. Tighten up and you should be fine.

You'd need a very healthy, well charged battery as it may take some time of cranking if you have let air into the system.

Shouldn't have gone near those injectors at all lad unless you knew what you were doing. Those engines are a notorious pain to get going when air gets into the system.

Gawddawggonnit

samjames wrote: »

hi and thanks, so i bled at the filter first- there a wingnut at bottom of mine so ill open that then...

the pipes im talking about are the pipes under the battery that go from one injector to the other, these are the rubber type about 5inches long that i replaced as looked perished,

Wingnut at bottom of the filter is for draining water from the filter. You need to purge the air from the top of the filter...air rises.
Iirc there’s two bolts on top of the filter. One bolt (12 or 13mm) holds the filter in place. Larger bolt is for bleeding the air.

Those rubber pipes are for the return of unused diesel to the tank, and won’t do anything for bleeding air.

Has it got an in-line or rotary injection pump?

Bass Reeves

You can use the lift pump all the way to the injector's pump. You just bleed at the different points. There is a bleed valve at the injector pump bleed to that first. Make sure lift pump is on the stroke if you are using it. The little leaver will be stiff to pump on the stroke if it not stiff it's not on the stroke turn engine and try again. When you get it to the injector pump loosen 1-2 injector's and turn engine until it starts. Make sure to tighten everything and take it on a run to clear system.

_Brian

Our David Brown is shocking to bleed, that’s not specifically useful to you but the few important things I’ve learned bleeding the tractor.

Firstly bleed screws are notoriously easily wrung when your frustrated and spending what seems like a lifetime trying to start a tractor.

Any time we plan to do something that will require bleeding we run the tractor and warm it up, so much easier starting a warm engine.

The battery never seems enough to get her going after bleeding. Tow start will produce far more compression and always gets it started.

patsy_mccabe

David Brown here too. Just to add that filling up the diesel tank helps too as the extra height of diesel increases the pressure to push the diesel through.

lab man

patsy_mccabe wrote:

David Brown here too. Just to add that filling up the diesel tank helps too as the extra height of diesel increases the pressure to push the diesel through.

have a Massey 5465 here that's the worst yoke you'd come across to bleed we just get the air hose now with the compressor a rag open all screws after the diesel filter a. blow the diesel through if u know what I mean

_blaaz

lab man wrote: »

have a Massey 5465 here that's the worst yoke you'd come across to bleed we just get the air hose now with the compressor a rag open all screws after the diesel filter a. blow the diesel through if u know what I mean

They have an electric lift pump?

Just leaving on key for 30 seconds should be enough to bleed it.....but the lift pump is sh1te on em and prob not working


https://www.qtponline.com/products/fuel_lift_pump_64525.html

Personally id buy the genuine agco one or perkins one

samjames

ok I dont see any priming pump on this tractor but notice its the red block or CRISS CROSS engine in it,

Figerty

samjames wrote: »

ok I dont see any priming pump on this tractor but notice its the red block or CRISS CROSS engine in it,

Any chance you turn off the tap at the tank.. been there myself...
Fuel starvation will catch you out.
Blocked filter at the tank.. blow it back and see if there is a flow from the tank.
Or you may have restricted supply line with dirt.

blue5000

samjames wrote: »

ok I dont see any priming pump on this tractor but notice its the red block or CRISS CROSS engine in it,

Is there a round pump button on top of the filter? If so, press that to prime it. Which type of injector pump have you?
A photo would help.

samjames

no dont see an pump button at all its a CAV pump and seems like a 7610 engine as XXX red block (i cant seem to upload a picture)
i closed all other nuts up and then loosened the bleeder nut on filter and turned tractor over for ages but not getting any fuel coming out

hopeso

You could try searching YouTube for bleeding a Ford.....someone might have a guide for bleeding an engine similar to yours.
Otherwise, do you know anyone near you who operates, or did operate classic fords? They’d soon have her going....

Figerty

samjames wrote: »

no dont see an pump button at all its a CAV pump and seems like a 7610 engine as XXX red block (i cant seem to upload a picture)
i closed all other nuts up and then loosened the bleeder nut on filter and turned tractor over for ages but not getting any fuel coming out

Any chance your stopper is stuck closed?
I did the cover seals on a CAV pump on a 35 and a 4000 a while back. On the 4000 the stopper would pull with the cable, but not always push forward correctly. This blocked flow and wrecked my head as it looked like it was in, but the cable was bending and not moving the lever. It has all loosened out now.

You may also want to jump lead the battery to a running tractor. You may not be getting enough battery power to get the over the compression and run.
Also, heat the heater plug before starting, even if it doesn't need it, you will have more chance of starting it.
It all sounds like fuel starvation or airlock.

One last thing. On the Ford 4000 and the 35 I always loosed the nut on the injector itself. You need to push the diesel and the air out at the top. One at time until it spits its out, lock that one, move to the next one. and repeat. Hopefully it will fire.

TheBoyConor

There has to be a priming pump in it somewhere.. There has to be .

If it is a red xxx engine then that is a replacement engine, common on these sure to the porous problem the original engines were notorious for.
It probably had a rotary pump so. There will be no lift pump as the rotary pumps have a lift pump integrated into them. But they're still should be priming pump. Often like a big black knob type thing on top of the filter or somewhere very near it. Unless someone has done a bit of DIY on it before and removed it.

patsy_mccabe

I spent a lot of time debugging problems on industrial machines over the years. If there is one thing I learned it is that - if a machine stops working then check the last thing that was done to the machine. Fairly obvious you say but you would be amazed the number of pepple that don't think of that.
Not familiar with that engine, but you say you changed the drain lines on the injectors. That means that the only air in the system is in those pipes or downstream from them. There should be no need to bleed the diesel filters.

Westernrock

I bled a friends tractor a few weeks back, manual pump wasn’t working so I connected a 60ml dosing syringe and an old lamb stomach tube to at the bleeder screw on the filter. Drew back with the syringe till diesel started coming, then kink the pipe empty syringe and go again till syringe full of diesel then pump this up to the injectors while turning over. Much easier with two people as well as one can be turning over the engine and the other tightening up the pipe at the injector once it starts to run.

TheBoyConor

Yeah but he has already opened the filter and injector pipes and let air into the system.

patsy_mccabe

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Yeah but he has already opened the filter and injector pipes and let air into the system.

If he opened the bleed screws on the filter, he didn't let in air. The pressure from the diesel would keep it out.

TheBoyConor

Unless the upper tank underneath the windscreen was pretty full up above the level of the filter then air would have gotten in. He also opened the thumbscrew at the bottom which could have let air in. And the injector pipes which would have let even more air in.

You should never go near a fuel system, or anything else for that matter, unless you know what you are doing. This is a perfect example of the hassle it results in. Tractor stopped up because he went bleeding it when there as no need to do so.

_Brian

samjames wrote: »

no dont see an pump button at all its a CAV pump and seems like a 7610 engine as XXX red block (i cant seem to upload a picture)
i closed all other nuts up and then loosened the bleeder nut on filter and turned tractor over for ages but not getting any fuel coming out

Something odd going on here as in your first post you mention that diesel is coming everywhere you bleed it. But now your getting no diesel ??

It’s time to get someone more experienced in to show you how to do it properly.

blue5000

Any joy OP?

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=640866

Link is for a 5610, as Brian says it might be time to ask someone local for help. A full tank and jumper cables might help too as the battery might be flat by now.

TheBoyConor

There is a little valve where the diesel comes out the bottom of the tank on those. There is a gauze on the inside that gets clogged up with crap. Any time our Force I 7610 starts acting up it is usually that gauze is clogged. No harm to rule it out by checking it. might be no harm to flush out the tank because at that many years old, it is probably full of shít.

_blaaz

If your really stuck open highest pipe off back inj pump.and swing over until diesel comes and then close

Then open pipe on inj itself at top engine (cyl 1),and try over until yous get a spitting action there....air will always go to top


May need battery to jump the tractor,this is going on with days,just either go out and start it,or get a mechanic to look at it for yous

Dakota Dan

If you have diesel going as far as the injector pump open the throttle fully and push in the button on the stopper on the pump and it will start first turn. The gauze at the bottom of the tank could also be blocked.

padds

If there is a glass bowl on engine, this may have a hairline or small crack that is causing air lock. May be woth a look. Cannot remember what make of tractor this happened with, but was not a Ford. Don't know if Ford have a glass bowl. I remember it was a cold job as there was snow on the ground. Crack found on second day trying to start tractor.

samjames

this morning i connected one of those little 12v fuel pumps to help things along and still wont start, was going fine before so dont understand it as its getting fuel

samjames

blue5000 wrote: »

Any joy OP?

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=640866

Link is for a 5610, as Brian says it might be time to ask someone local for help. A full tank and jumper cables might help too as the battery might be flat by now.

brand new ford heavy duty battery but starter taking a lot here, even using a little easystart, might be time now to call in someone as tried everything at this stage

TheBoyConor

put away that easy start before you do more damage. Better still, put it in the bin.

Call out a mechanic to come get it going and be done with it.

In future don't go fiddling with things you don't know about.

Nekarsulm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

put away that easy start before you do more damage. Better still, put it in the bin.

Call out a mechanic to come get it going and be done with it.

In future don't go fiddling with things you don't know about.

How will he learn the in's and out's of bleeding a system etc if he dosen't have a go?
At this stage, get a mechanic or experienced neighbour, ans ask lots of questions.

patsy_mccabe

Nekarsulm wrote: »

How will he learn the in's and out's of bleeding a system etc if he dosen't have a go?
At this stage, get a mechanic or experienced neighbour, ans ask lots of questions.

Exactly, a decent mechanic would love to show you how to bleed it.

_Brian

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Exactly, a decent mechanic would love to show you how to bleed it.

Yea.
Like there’s nothing a mechanic likes more than coming out to fix something that someone has “fixed” already. And they don’t even charge extra because it’s such fun.

maidhc

To bleed an older gravity fed ford:

1) Fill the tank with diesel
2) Open the nut on top of the diesel filters
3) Wait until diesel flows out, no need to crank, if it doesn't investigate why
4) Open bleed screw in fuel pump (8/10mm)
5) Crank until bubbles gone
6) Try starting tractor
7) If no success after a few 20/30 second bursts open first injector feed pipe
8) Crank until fuel flows out
9) Replace and move to second one
10) Repeat along the firing order

My old Ford 550 will always take me the whole way along to start after putting in a fresh diesel filter, even though it the engine is perfectly healthy.

patsy_mccabe

Is there no lift pump on those tractors?

blue5000

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is there no lift pump on those tractors?

Mine has a push pump at the top of the filter



I've a rotary cav pump, how does it compare with what you have OP?

maidhc

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is there no lift pump on those tractors?

Gravity on the 7000 I would have thought.

hopeso

blue5000 wrote: »

Mine has a push pump at the top of the filter



I've a rotary cav pump, how does it compare with what you have OP?

Is that a retro fit coolant filter I see?

White Clover

hopeso wrote: »

Is that a retro fit coolant filter I see?

Looks like a generation 3 replacement engine?

samjames

blue5000 wrote: »

Mine has a push pump at the top of the filter



I've a rotary cav pump, how does it compare with what you have OP?

IMG_20190725_212316896.jpg



mine here

samjames

blue5000 wrote: »

Mine has a push pump at the top of the filter



I've a rotary cav pump, how does it compare with what you have OP?

and filter

Figerty

samjames wrote: »

and filter

Well, what was the problem?
Did you get it sorted?

samjames

Figerty wrote: »

Well, what was the problem?
Did you get it sorted?

I did, had a 12v mini pump connected trying to get the diesel up but no start, few days later whipped it off and joined all up and kept at it myself and got her going, running sweet now


thanks everyone