Irish constitutional referendum.

NUTLEY BOY

In the case of a referendum to change [delete or substitute or add anew] the constitution is the outcome of the vote considered to be advisory to or obligatory on the government.

Put more simply, can a referendum result be ignored or must it be acted on ?

wench

They've ignored the 7th amendment for 40 years now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

ELM327

wench wrote: »

They've ignored the 7th amendment for 40 years now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

It hasn't been ignored.
They just havent used the power conferred. The power is still there.


2º. Provision may be made by law for the election, on a franchise and in the manner to be provided by law, by one or more of the following institutions, namely:


The result of a constitutional referendum is binding in a republic.
The situation is not the same in the UK where a referendum of subjects is advisory

hullaballoo

My understanding is that the referendum to the people is for ratification of an Act of the Oireachtas purporting to amend Bunreacht na hÉireann essentially making it mandatory.

In fact, on review of Article 46, it appears that a referendum result, almost by mechanism of the amending process of Art. 46 itself, must be signed by Miggeldy or the Prez for the time being.

So, a referendum result cannot be ignored, no.

is_that_so

wench wrote: »

They've ignored the 7th amendment for 40 years now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

It's very low priority, not on anyone's radar, and they were keen to torpedo the Seanad not so long ago.

ELM327

is_that_so wrote: »

It's very low priority, not on anyone's radar, and they were keen to torpedo the Seanad not so long ago.

But still, it hasnt been ignored, the result of the referendum was enacted.
The power was given.

Peregrinus

hullaballoo wrote: »

My understanding is that the referendum to the people is for ratification of an Act of the Oireachtas purporting to amend Bunreacht na hÉireann essentially making it mandatory.

In fact, on review of Article 46, it appears that a referendum result, almost by mechanism of the amending process of Art. 46 itself, must be signed by Miggeldy or the Prez for the time being.

So, a referendum result cannot be ignored, no.

This. The Constitution, remember, is enacted by the people - it says so right there at the beginning - and it follows that it's amended by the people. When the Oireachtas passes a Bill to amend the Constution, all it's really doing is proposing an amendment for consideration by the people. The people will make that amendment, or they won't make it but, either way, it is their decision, and not the decision of the Oireachtas, which represents an exercise of the power to amend the Constitution.

The amendment doesn't take effect until the outcome of the referndum has been certified and the Bill signed by the president, but that's a process for determining and recording the decision of the people. It's still the people, not the Oireachtas or the President, who have and exercise the power of amendment.

Victor

ELM327 wrote: »

It hasn't been ignored.
They just havent used the power conferred. The power is still there.


2º. Provision may be made by law for the election, on a franchise and in the manner to be provided by law, by one or more of the following institutions, namely:


The result of a constitutional referendum is binding in a republic.
The situation is not the same in the UK where a referendum of subjects is advisory

Several referendums have followed this formula - the Oireachtas / government may do X, there is no obligation on them to do so.

Peregrinus

It's a common formulation in the original text of the Constitution as well as in amendment. Provision may be made by law for the exclusive use of Irish or English for certain purposes - Article 8.3. All state revenues shall form one fund, subject to such exceptions as may be provided by law - Article 11. The President may be impeached by the Oireachtas for state misbehaviour - Article 12.10. The power to commute or remit sentences imposed by courts may be conferred by law on authorities other than the President - Article 13.6. Etc, etc. In some cases the Oireachtas has exercised powers the conferred on it by such provisions in the Constitution; in others, not.

ELM327

Victor wrote: »

Several referendums have followed this formula - the Oireachtas / government may do X, there is no obligation on them to do so.

Exactly.
Similar to the "repeal the 8th"

Dublinensis

ELM327 wrote: »

The result of a constitutional referendum is binding in a republic.
The situation is not the same in the UK where a referendum of subjects is advisory

It would be wrong to suggest that the question of whether referendums in a given country are binding is determined by whether that country is a republic or a monarchy. Finland is a republic and its referendums are merely advisory; Denmark is a monarchy and its the results of its referendums are binding.

NUTLEY BOY

Thanks all - interesting discussion.

ELM327

Dublinensis wrote: »

It would be wrong to suggest that the question of whether referendums in a given country are binding is determined by whether that country is a republic or a monarchy. Finland is a republic and its referendums are merely advisory; Denmark is a monarchy and its the results of its referendums are binding.

Interesting, you learn something every day.
Have you a source for the above where I could read further?