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Issue with notice period

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  • 21-07-2019 9:39pm
    #1
    Scmag111
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭


    I am having a problem with my employer. When I started work I was given a contract with 2 weeks notice period, that was 4 years ago.

    Last year they offered me a promotion, the terms were not acceptable to me, wage increase was nowhere where it should have been in relation to where current market rates are, plus it went to a 2 month notice period.

    I verbally informed them I was not happy with the rates and refused to sign it, they said they would look into it and come back to me which they never did. However they did give me the wage increase ( which to be fair I never refused). I never heard any more about it.

    Now I am looking to move jobs and have queried the notice period, they have said they want the two months but I have said I'll only give two weeks as that is what my signed contract says. I will add that it is not a very senior position in the organisation.

    We have hit an impasse, where can this go, what can they do if I get a job and leave after two weeks.


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    #2
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    what can they do if I get a job and leave after two weeks.

    In reality they can sue you for "non performance of contract" or similar, and lose, because your signed contract is very clear on the notice period. Of course they won't do this.

    The actual downside is dependant on the size of the business and industry. It is generally good to leave without bad blood, as you never know who you'll work with/for in the future. But stick to your guns, and make sure that the senior person in HR and the senior person in your dept know that your contract is 100% clear.


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    #3
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    3DataModem wrote: »
    In reality they can sue you for "non performance of contract" or similar, and lose, because your signed contract is very clear on the notice period. Of course they won't do this.

    The actual downside is dependant on the size of the business and industry. It is generally good to leave without bad blood, as you never know who you'll work with/for in the future. But stick to your guns, and make sure that the senior person in HR and the senior person in your dept know that your contract is 100% clear.

    His contract likely still says 2 weeks.


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    #4
    Scmag111
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Scmag111


    3DataModem wrote: »
    In reality they can sue you for "non performance of contract" or similar, and lose, because your signed contract is very clear on the notice period. Of course they won't do this.

    The actual downside is dependant on the size of the business and industry. It is generally good to leave without bad blood, as you never know who you'll work with/for in the future. But stick to your guns, and make sure that the senior person in HR and the senior person in your dept know that your contract is 100% clear.

    Thanks for the response, it's a fairly large organisation in a really big industry so I'm sure I could cross paths with some of them again.

    The HR dept are all over the place at the best of times so the handling of this will be no surprise.

    My only concern is what they could do when giving a reference, my performance has always been top notch so they could not give a negative reference about that but could they put any new employer off by giving a poor reference?

    Just to add, if I move it will be to a contract role through an agency so it would be the agency getting the reference and the new company would not be in contact with the current employer.


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    #5
    Scmag111
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Scmag111


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    His contract likely still says 2 weeks.

    Only signed contract says two weeks but they did give a new contract that says two months. Although I never signed it, I did accept the payment increase.

    Just wondering does this change the situation or does it absolutely have to be signed to be legally binding.


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    #6
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,945 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    Only signed contract says two weeks but they did give a new contract that says two months. Although I never signed it, I did accept the payment increase.

    Just wondering does this change the situation or does it absolutely have to be signed to be legally binding.

    You didn't sign it (or otherwise indicate acceptance). No court or tribunal would accept passive acceptance of such a significant change unless you had emailed to say "OK with new contract" or something to them.

    My advice is to sit down with HR, explain your position clearly, and tell them you are leaving. If they want to you stay an extra week or so then you are prepared to consider it.

    Re: reference
    Big company / big industry? Not a chance they'll do anything further.


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    #7
    Scmag111
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Scmag111


    3DataModem wrote: »
    You didn't sign it (or otherwise indicate acceptance). No court or tribunal would accept passive acceptance of such a significant change unless you had emailed to say "OK with new contract" or something to them.

    My advice is to sit down with HR, explain your position clearly, and tell them you are leaving. If they want to you stay an extra week or so then you are prepared to consider it.

    Re: reference
    Big company / big industry? Not a chance they'll do anything further.

    This is what I was thinking... cheers.


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    #8
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    If you did not sign anything to acknowledge the change then you are certainly not obliged to provide the longer notice.

    I find it pretty bizarre though that the wage increase would then have happened. I can only imagine that HR just assumed that you would accept the increase, put the mechanics in place to make it happen, and then just never finally confirmed that you had accepted it.

    One thing though, perhaps they are now within their rights to recover the extra payments if they wish. What do you mean exactly when you say that you 'accepted' the pay increase?


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    #9
    pjdarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭pjdarcy


    Also, it has been mentioned on this forum several times but it's worth repeating. HR are not your friend and they won't take your side against the company even if you're completely in the right. Their job is to protect the company so just be a little careful in how you deal with them. Good luck.


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    #10
    NashD
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭NashD


    I've always been told an employer cannot give a bad reference.
    They might not give you a good one but giving a bad one opens them up to being sued for defamation especially if they don't have rock solid backup to their remarks in the reference.


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    #11
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    NashD wrote: »
    I've always been told an employer cannot give a bad reference.
    They might not give you a good one but giving a bad one opens them up to being sued for defamation especially if they don't have rock solid backup to their remarks in the reference.

    That is a very popular myth which does not pan out in reality.

    It is very easy to clearly send the message that you do not recommend someone, without leaving oneself open to any type of legal action, etc. When I am called to provide a reference for someone, nine times out of ten the last question I will be asked is 'Would you hire this person again?'. A simple 'No', with no further justification, is sending a clear signal that I do not recommend this person.


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    #12
    Scmag111
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Scmag111


    skallywag wrote: »
    . What do you mean exactly when you say that you 'accepted' the pay increase?

    What happened was, they offered the contract. I verbally refused but they increased my salary anyway... when I say I accepted it I mean that I never said don't pay me the increase, I just left it being paid and they was never anything more said by either side.


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    #13
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    Just to add, if I move it will be to a contract role through an agency so it would be the agency getting the reference and the new company would not be in contact with the current employer.

    You should expect the agency to be more careful about references etc... from day one, you will be representing them to their client. They will not want to do anything that ruins the client relationship...

    And the ultimate employer will want to see the references...


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    #14
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    What happened was, they offered the contract. I verbally refused but they increased my salary anyway... when I say I accepted it I mean that I never said don't pay me the increase, I just left it being paid and they was never anything more said by either side.

    í vey much doubt that any of us can give you an answer to this, since we don't know the players involved... they may simply refuse to give you a reference and give you a record of employment instead:
    To whom it concerns,

    Mr. Murphy worked with our company from 1.1.1899 to 12.12.1905. He performed all the tasks assigned to him.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Employer

    Not some think you'd want to hand even to an agency....

    On the other hand if it gets personal and they are vengeful... they could take a court case, it unlikely they'd win, but having it reported in the papers and easy to find on Google, might not do you any good either.

    Only you can tell what the atmosphere is like...


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    #15
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    What happened was, they offered the contract. I verbally refused but they increased my salary anyway... when I say I accepted it I mean that I never said don't pay me the increase, I just left it being paid and they was never anything more said by either side.
    Did you perform the work that was in the contract? i.e. Did you take the promotion.

    On a purely academic level, you don't necessarily have to have signed a contract to be bound by it. If you otherwise adhere to the contract as if it was in force (i.e. accept the increase in wages and change in responsibilities), then you can be deemed to have implicitly agreed to it and be bound by it.

    This does work both ways - if an employer gives you a new role and you verbally agree to it, but they don't pay the increase in wages, they be found in breach of the new contract even though nobody signed it.

    Like I say though, it's academic. Would require arguments in court and a court to rule on it.

    The reality is that if you leave, it won't go to court. They won't "do" anything about it. But they can outright refuse to supply a reference.

    I'd be inclined to meet them halfway. Explain that your contract only says two weeks, but you can stretch to four weeks. Two months is unreasonable for a position that is not senior and could be considered a de facto breach of your statutory right to change job.

    Then the decision to be assholes about it, is in their court. If they refuse, they're the ones being unreasonable.


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    #16
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I believe in compromise.

    You tell them your contract says two weeks. You're willing to give them a month. If they refuse, no deal, so you give them two weeks notice.


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    #17
    magic_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Scmag111 wrote: »
    Thanks for the response, it's a fairly large organisation in a really big industry so I'm sure I could cross paths with some of them again.

    The HR dept are all over the place at the best of times so the handling of this will be no surprise.

    My only concern is what they could do when giving a reference, my performance has always been top notch so they could not give a negative reference about that but could they put any new employer off by giving a poor reference?

    Just to add, if I move it will be to a contract role through an agency so it would be the agency getting the reference and the new company would not be in contact with the current employer.

    Get a reference from your Manager / other managers you worked with. A HR reference is never needed.

    Maybe offer doing 4 weeks notice (more like the norm) if you can afford to push back any job offers


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