Paradox security systems any good?

Fuiru

Hi, I'm thinking of using paradox security systems for a self monitored house alarm but I can t find any reviews on their systems. Anybody here use their service and products? If so, do you recommend them? Thanks.

Jnealon

Canadian, doubt you will find a supplier over here

Fuiru

Jnealon wrote: »

Canadian, doubt you will find a supplier over here

There's an Irish website. Distributors and installers. I'd link but not sure if its okay?

kub

Fuiru wrote: »

There's an Irish website. Distributors and installers. I'd link but not sure if its okay?

I just googled them, there is indeed an Irish site, Co Carlow ?


Ok what I am not seeing anywhere is the words EN 50131, which is a bench mark for security system installers and the equipment which we use.


Also be wary please, I have never seen that equipment/ manufacturer before, that is not to say anything negative about it. But what you have to be weary of is another installer may not be able to get parts for this system if you go ahead and get it installed by this company and if the worst thing happens and they go out of business.

Fuiru

Thanks for the advice. They do seem new on the market. Do you have any referrals to any installers that do a self monitoring system without a monthly charge? I'm just looking for a basic package. House is already wired with an old system that needs upgrading.

kub

Fuiru wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. They do seem new on the market. Do you have any referrals to any installers that do a self monitoring system without a monthly charge? I'm just looking for a basic package. House is already wired with an old system that needs upgrading.

Check the PSA.gov.ie web site and look for licenced installers in your own area.
I would just advice you to be cautious about the systems without monthly charges, one big issue with these are, an alarm system is designed to still function in the event of a power outage.
A broadband router to which these ' without monthly charges ' are always and only connected to cannot function in the event of a power outage.


Therefore these systems are incapable of transmitting intruder alarm activations in the event of a power outage.


What I would therefore advice you to go for is a system that can take a ready to go type Sim card, which you can top up yourself as necessary.

aidanathome

kub wrote: »

What I would therefore advice you to go for is a system that can take a ready to go type Sim card, which you can top up yourself as necessary.

Sorry to jump in here, but could you recommend one like that?

kub

aidanathome wrote: »

Sorry to jump in here, but could you recommend one like that?

No problem, a HKC 10/270 with a GSM Q unit, it can text and send voice alerts to phones and can be controlled via text.


As above, a pay as you go SIM in that will work fine.

bk

kub wrote: »

A broadband router to which these ' without monthly charges ' are always and only connected to cannot function in the event of a power outage.

Therefore these systems are incapable of transmitting intruder alarm activations in the event of a power outage.

Just to point out, that there are DIY alarm systems with self monitoring, that support both IP comms and fallback to GSM if the broadband goes down.

Honeywell Evohome Alarms available on amazon for example in Europe that support dual comms. Veho Cave is another.

The new alarm systems appearing in the US all support dual comms, Nest, Ring, ADT SmartThings, etc.

You are correct that some don't have dual path, but many do.

kub

bk wrote: »

Just to point out, that there are DIY alarm systems with self monitoring, that support both IP comms and fallback to GSM if the broadband goes down.

Honeywell Evohome Alarms available on amazon for example in Europe that support dual comms. Veho Cave is another.

The new alarm systems appearing in the US all support dual comms, Nest, Ring, ADT SmartThings, etc.

You are correct that some don't have dual path, but many do.

Ok so, just to be clear here.
Is there a GSM out in the world that has a SIM card in it that costs nothing ?
As in free?

Stoner

Fuiru wrote:

Thanks for the advice. They do seem new on the market. Do you have any referrals to any installers that do a self monitoring system without a monthly charge? I'm just looking for a basic package. House is already wired with an old system that needs upgrading.

There is a sticky on the main forum page with suppliers on it.

You might get hit with PMs here from lurkers, the list is not necessarily a list of recommended installers, most on the list advise here and you could come back to them. That said I haven't heard any negative comments about the installs either, if we did wed remove the names.

If you are getting help here it would be good to engage the lads if you both want.

I would definitely watch out for single installer products as advised above .

Stoner

kub wrote:

Ok so, just to be clear here. Is there a GSM out in the world that has a SIM card in it that costs nothing ? As in free?

No

bk

kub wrote: »

Ok so, just to be clear here.
Is there a GSM out in the world that has a SIM card in it that costs nothing ?
As in free?

The Honeywell is free for the first two years and £20 per two years after that. Pretty much as cheap as you can get a SIM.

I don't think anyone is expecting that a SIM is completely free, much in the same way that no one would suggest that you broadband is free either for systems that do "free notifications" over wifi/broadband, right?

It is the notification that is free, not the comm connection.

The question to ask is, can you bring your own sim or not? If you can't, how much is the company supplied SIM? Are there other subscription charges ontop of the SIM cost?

Systems, can come with no comms, single path comms or dual path comms and that is true for both professional and DIY systems.

Plenty of installers still installing expensive HKC systems with just single path comms!

Let me quote what you said:

I would just advice you to be cautious about the systems without monthly charges,

Honeywell system as an example doesn't have a monthly charge, it has a VERY cheap once every two years charge.

one big issue with these are, an alarm system is designed to still function in the event of a power outage.

All alarm systems will continue to operate as a basic bell and lights alarm even if there is a power outage. Both DIY consumer systems and pro installed.

A broadband router to which these ' without monthly charges ' are always and only connected to cannot function in the event of a power outage.

If you put the router/wifi on a UPS, then it will continue to work fine in a power outage.

And of course that is all ignoring if the system supports server side polling, which can notifiy you of a power outage.

Therefore these systems are incapable of transmitting intruder alarm activations in the event of a power outage.

Not true if you power the router/wifi on a UPS.

Also GSM systems aren't without issues. GSM in general is much less reliable comms technology then wired broadband. An area wide power outage can take out GSM towers and GSM jammers are cheap and easy to get.

Of course you also then have questions about the reliability and uptime of the monitoring servers.

The ideal system is one with dual path comms and fast (sub 5 minute) server side polling. But of course you pay for those extra features, so it is up to everyone to decide if the extra cost is worth it or not for themselves.

kub

bk wrote: »

The Honeywell is free for the first two years and £20 per two years after that. Pretty much as cheap as you can get a SIM.

I don't think anyone is expecting that a SIM is completely free, much in the same way that no one would suggest that you broadband is free either for systems that do "free notifications" over wifi/broadband, right?

It is the notification that is free, not the comm connection.

The question to ask is, can you bring your own sim or not? If you can't, how much is the company supplied SIM? Are there other subscription charges ontop of the SIM cost?

Systems, can come with no comms, single path comms or dual path comms and that is true for both professional and DIY systems.

Plenty of installers still installing expensive HKC systems with just single path comms!

Let me quote what you said:



Honeywell system as an example doesn't have a monthly charge, it has a VERY cheap once every two years charge.



All alarm systems will continue to operate as a basic bell and lights alarm even if there is a power outage. Both DIY consumer systems and pro installed.



If you put the router/wifi on a UPS, then it will continue to work fine in a power outage.

And of course that is all ignoring if the system supports server side polling, which can notifiy you of a power outage.



Not true if you power the router/wifi on a UPS.

Also GSM systems aren't without issues. GSM in general is much less reliable comms technology then wired broadband. An area wide power outage can take out GSM towers and GSM jammers are cheap and easy to get.

Of course you also then have questions about the reliability and uptime of the monitoring servers.

The ideal system is one with dual path comms and fast (sub 5 minute) server side polling. But of course you pay for those extra features, so it is up to everyone to decide if the extra cost is worth it or not for themselves.

Please let me know the make and model of the UPS that you know that will keep a router operating in the Event of a power cut

I trust you are aware that entire neighbourhood's are without power in the Event of power cuts

Does the UPS you use keep the internet providers local service unit around the corner from your home working as well?

Are you suggesting so that just because a router is given power from a UPS, that you are suggesting that in the event of a power cut that it will still provide broadband?

Stoner

kub wrote:

Are you suggesting so that just because a router is given power from a UPS, that you are suggesting that in the event of a power cut that it will still provide broadband?

You can have a power cut and have your router powered by a UPS and still have wifi.

I understand that its possible that sometimes the power cut can interrupt your ISPs other equipment, but both scenarios are possible.

kub

Stoner wrote: »

You can have a power cut and have your router powered by a UPS and still have wifi.

I understand that its possible that sometimes the power cut can interrupt your ISPs other equipment, but both scenarios are possible.

Thank you, I am just trying to point out that this free notification thing that seems to be mentioned here on this forum very often is really a false sense of security.


The bottom line as always is, you pay for what you get.

Stoner

kub wrote:

Thank you, I am just trying to point out that this free notification thing that seems to be mentioned here on this forum very often is really a false sense of security.

True. They all cost money,

I guess its added value from something you already have like its no additional cost if you have wifi already, but if you don't then you'd have to pay for it.

KoolKid

Have lots of customers using 4G as their main broadband now. The Huawei B525 for example, can be backed up by a 12v DC power supply & battery in the same way as your alarm.
Have tested them during power cuts & they work perfectly.

bk

kub wrote: »

Please let me know the make and model of the UPS that you know that will keep a router operating in the Event of a power cut

I trust you are aware that entire neighbourhood's are without power in the Event of power cuts

Does the UPS you use keep the internet providers local service unit around the corner from your home working as well?

Are you suggesting so that just because a router is given power from a UPS, that you are suggesting that in the event of a power cut that it will still provide broadband?

Yep, exactly that.

I've my cable modem and wifi router on a UPS and I've continued to work through a power outage with them (using a laptop with it's own battery).

Of course it depends on how widespread the power outage is, if it is a very widespread outage, then it could also take out the local ISP gear. But that can also depend on which wired technology used and if all the active points have power backup or not. For instance most telephone exchanges have battery and diesel generator backups that flick on during a power outage.

BTW if a power outage is that widespread and long lasting, it will also most likely take out the mobile masts too. So GSM based doesn't get you much difference there. So then we need to start talking about polling...

BBTW The new FTTH networks being rolled out by SIRO and Eir will take reliability during power outages to the next level. Their FTTH networks are passive optical networks (GPON), which means their is no active electrical equipment at all outside of the exchange (which have power backups). Very nice.

bk

Stoner wrote: »

I guess its added value from something you already have like its no additional cost if you have wifi already, but if you don't then you'd have to pay for it.

You are right, I'd have just assumed that anyone would can afford an expensive, professionally installed alarm system would also already have broadband. However now that I think of it, very elderly customers might not have BB, so fair enough on that one.

Though they will likely need to make the transition in the next few years. Eir is looking to drop PSTN (phone lines) and the mobile companies are looking to drop 2G GSM. It is going to become an all IP world over the next 5 to 10 years.

kub wrote: »

Thank you, I am just trying to point out that this free notification thing that seems to be mentioned here on this forum very often is really a false sense of security.

I mean that is true of alarm systems in general. Even the most expensive alarm system won't stop a determined burglar as we all know.

And their is no guarantees with "professional monitoring" either. My sister's has a monitored alarm system (HKC). It went off and she heard nothing from the alarm monitoring company. She got a call from her neighbour to tell her the alarm was going off!

kub wrote: »

The bottom line as always is, you pay for what you get.

Not necessarily. For instance the most commonly installed professional alarm systems here, while they have their advantages, are really looking quite out of date on modern technology and features IMO.

When you look at the world wide market, you see many much more impressive modern systems. We definitely aren't getting value for money here.

KoolKid

I think when it comes down to it no comms is infallible. Decent polling is your best bet. I'll take notifications after 5 minutes as opposed to five hours any day.
What's funny is that the paid for options often have the worst polling.

bk

KoolKid wrote: »

I think when it comes down to it no comms is infallible. Decent polling is your best bet. I'll take notifications after 5 minutes as opposed to five hours any day.
What's funny is that the paid for options often have the worst polling.

Yes, absolutely. it is so weird to me. I've got two devices, an IP camera that cost €60 and a Smartthings hub that cost €80. No subscription on either and both have sub 5 minute polling!

It blows my mind that I can buy smart wifi plugs for €10 that have remote management and very good and fast notifications!

At any kind of scale, this networking stuff is not expensive.

I strongly feel, with everything else I'm seeing in the Home Automation arena, that all alarm systems should be coming with "free" app, remote control and notifications/monitoring out of the box. 3G/4G fallback as an optional extra for more money.

KoolKid

To be honest I think the industry is obsessed with recurring revenue.
It's time for people to cop on and shop around.

Stoner

KoolKid wrote:

the industry is obsessed with recurring revenue.

That's what makes a business interesting to buyers though.

It's a good business model

KoolKid

But not necessarily the best value/service for the customer.

bk

Also not necessarily a long term business or a sustainable business model if it leaves you open to competition.

See Climote for an example of this. Early Smart Thermostat that used 3g for it connection and required a subscription. They are still around, hanging in there. But their business model went up in smoke when dozens of wifi based smart thermostats with no subs required, entered the market.

APower86

Fuiru wrote: »

Hi, I'm thinking of using paradox security systems for a self monitored house alarm but I can t find any reviews on their systems. Anybody here use their service and products? If so, do you recommend them? Thanks.

Did you decide on a alarm system? I came across Paradox recently also, specs look good but as said already there not commonly used here in Ireland...

Fuiru

APower86 wrote: »

Did you decide on a alarm system? I came across Paradox recently also, specs look good but as said already there not commonly used here in Ireland...

HI, sorry for the late reply. I did get the paradox system and it's fantastic. Also , the guy that does it is really friendly, helpful and stands by his work. I really can't recommend him and the system enough. It took him about 6 hours to set it all up. There was an issue with the sim card about 3 weeks later and he came back out from Swords to fix it. I've now got a self monitored system that relies on wifi and text message (to as many numbers as you like). The display itself is touchscreen with easy to use options and you can set it up with different codes so you can tell who's coming and going out of the house. All easily upgradeable too if you wanted to go down the route with cameras and motions sensors. Great replacement to the old aritech that tripped up all the time. This hasn't tripped once. So far so good.