Rules Question - Nearest Point Of Relief

CalamariFritti

Rules question for fellow boarsies over a situation I found myself in today.

Par 4, 400m long, slightest dogleg right, could almost call it straight, cart path running down the right for the first 250 or so.



This (white spot) is where I find my drive on the cart path. The olive green stuff is shrubs and ferns and nettles, basically a wall of it with trees in it (brown spots).

Naturally I was looking for relief on the inside of the cart path in the rough But my partner said if I take relief off the cart path I might have to take it on the far side (in the nettles). Since my ball was lying at the outer edge of the cart path.

I argue there is no spot on the far side that will give me relief. To which he said then play as it lies may be my best option. Both of us weren't 100% sure.

In the end I proceeded to drop inside the path in the rough, made 5, but I'm still not sure if my drop was legal. I suspect it wasn't and would like to know for the future.

Thanks

First Up

CalamariFritti wrote:

I argue there is no spot on the far side that will give me relief. To which he said then play as it lies may be my best option. Both of us weren't 100% sure.


In the end I proceeded to drop inside the path in the rough, made 5, but I'm still not sure if my drop was legal. I suspect it wasn't and would like to know for the future.

You are entitled to relief from the path. Nothing else. Nearest point of relief was the nearest point in the playing area off the path. If you dropped anywhere else it was illegal.

fred funk }{

Your NPOR is a set point and not the nicest point of relief. Sometimes it's in a bush or rough. Also, if taking relief you must take full relief including your stance.

eoghan104

This is a common mistake people make to be fair. The rule is "nearest" not "nicest" point of relief. You have to drop in the nettles if they are part of the course and the nearest area.

CalamariFritti

Thanks for the replies and yes, thought so. Even if taking relief is physically not possible, like in this scenario? I simply cant take relief and must play off the path?

First Up

CalamariFritti wrote:

Thanks for the replies and yes, thought so. Even if taking relief is physically not possible, like in this scenario?

Taking relief from the path was possible.

CalamariFritti

It was physically not possible. I could have stuck my arm in there and dropped alright, but I would be still standing on the cart path (regardless of the lie). Yes I dropped to the nicest point of relief you could say, but it was actually the only physically accessible POR.

First Up

CalamariFritti wrote:

It was physically not possible. I could have stuck my arm in there and dropped alright, but I would be still standing on the cart path (regardless of the lie). Yes I dropped to the nicest point of relief you could say, but it was actually the only physically accessible POR.

Without seeing the spot it is hard to know. You said there was "no point that would give you relief", not that the place that would give you relief from the path was not accessible.

Without seeing it, we can't judge if it was physically impossible to get into and stand in it but the rule is clear about nearest point.

I think in that situation I'd have played off the path as that was both possible and definitely legal.

CalamariFritti

What I meant with "there is no spot on the far side that will give me relief" is this.

There is no spot I can access for a drop where I'm still not standing on the cart path. It's a wall of green with a couple of pockets of only hip high stuff. I could possibly drop it into one of those, but I'd be standing in the middle of the cart path trying to address the ball.

First Up

CalamariFritti wrote:

There is no spot I can access for a drop where I'm still not standing on the cart path. It's a wall of green with a couple of pockets of only hip high stuff. I could possibly drop it into one of those, but I'd be standing in the middle of the cart path trying to address the ball.

So the cart path is immediately beside impenetrable foliage? Interesting - and unusual enough for the club to have a local rule. Worth asking.

In any case, all that matters is where you can stand and drop to get full relief from the path. Where the ball lands is not a factor, as long as it is in the "playing area".

paulos53

From definition of nearest point of relief. The last line applies to the OP


"If it is not physically possible to drop the ball in the identified relief area, the player is not allowed relief under Rule 16.1."

Interpretation Nearest Point of Complete Relief/5 - Player Physically Unable to Determine Nearest Point of Complete Relief

If a player is physically unable to determine his or her nearest point of complete relief, it must be estimated, and the relief area is then based on the estimated point.

For example, in taking relief under Rule 16.1, a player is physically unable to determine the nearest point of complete relief because that point is within the trunk of a tree or a boundary fence prevents the player from adopting the required stance.

The player must estimate the nearest point of complete relief and drop a ball in the identified relief area.

If it is not physically possible to drop the ball in the identified relief area, the player is not allowed relief under Rule 16.1.

Seve OB

actually saw a fella yesterday in a society in castleknock take relief from a path. he was on the edge of the path beside very long rough where if dropped could easily be lost, so he dropped on the far side of the path in rough which he would be able to play from.

i was on the opposite fairway in semi rough and the same guy had just walked over to my ball as i was standing at it, i told him it was my ball yet he still declared it was his, picked it up to look at it. he then realised it wasn't his so dropped it and walked away without a word!!

First Up

paulos53 wrote:

From definition of nearest point of relief. The last line applies to the OP


"If it is not physically possible to drop the ball in the identified relief area, the player is not allowed relief under Rule 16.1."

That covers it and I think that's what applies in the OP's situation.

CalamariFritti

Thats what I almost expected. I would agree that it sounds no relief in this case. Thanks, next time. Hadn't a score thankfully.

mike12

If u are still standing on the path then u haven't taken relief.

From your ball you would have to stand to the right of the path find the spot where you would need to drop your ball.
On the left your spot for relief is 2inches off the path.
Which ever of those spots is nearer to your ball is your relief.
For a right handed golfer if the ball is middle of the path relief will always be on the left even a couple of foot on the right side of the path would mean the relief was on the left.

CalamariFritti

So Mike, are you saying if I cant get a drop physically on the right (no access, no stance), I can drop on the left? What I read from the others is I simply cant take relief off the path.

First Up

CalamariFritti wrote:

So Mike, are you saying if I cant get a drop physically on the right (no access, no stance), I can drop on the left? What I read from the others is I simply cant take relief off the path.

I don't think so. The only relief point is the one closest to the ball. If you can't physically access that place - tough; play it as it lies.

mike12

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So Mike, are you saying if I cant get a drop physically on the right (no access, no stance), I can drop on the left? What I read from the others is I simply cant take relief off the path.

No it's all about the distance from where u are to where u can drop the ball even it's in a 6 foot high hedge.
If u are taking a stance right of the path the drop will be 3 foot or so into the rough.
Left of the path the drop will be a couple of inches.
The distance the ball is from the edge of the path means nothing, if the ball is middle of the path nearest point of relief will always be left for a right handed golfer

GreeBo

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So Mike, are you saying if I cant get a drop physically on the right (no access, no stance), I can drop on the left? What I read from the others is I simply cant take relief off the path.

If you can't drop at the nearest point of relief then you need to either play it as it lies or take an unplayable.

Rikand

Nice artwork BTW

First Up

mike12 wrote:

The distance the ball is from the edge of the path means nothing, if the ball is middle of the path nearest point of relief will always be left for a right handed golfer

Not so; not nearer the hole comes into it too. Complete relief includes stance, so its the point closest to where the ball lies that the player can stand off the path not nearer the hole. That could be either side.

Besides not all paths are parallel to the hole/fairway. Some cross it at right angles. In that case the drop point will almost always be behind.

GreeBo

Rikand wrote: »

Nice artwork BTW

Golf Graffix lawyers are on Red Alert!:D

Golfgraffix

GreeBo wrote: »

Golf Graffix lawyers are on Red Alert!:D

Lol