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Regrets about not getting into game development

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  • 11-07-2019 2:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭


    Anyone have regrets about not getting involved in game development?

    When I started gaming it was the C64 and the Megadrive. Had my fun but I had zero interest in making them. I'm not sure if I should assign the simplicity of C64/Megadrive games as why my interest never got sparked. It's probably better to say I had a lot to learn between then and now.

    Nowadays, wow. The games are so complicated they rival the complexity of any engineering project. A lot to say, a lot to show. I'd love to be involved.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Honestly couldn't think of anything worse. It sounds like an awful industry to be involved in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,503 ✭✭✭brevity


    Working in the game industry is supposed to be a bit of a nightmare.

    Grind attitude, no work life balance, mediocre wages, ****ty work environment.

    There are plenty of articles written about it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 58 ✭✭Cyclical Apocalypse


    To be honest, I don't work in game development or in software development, but I have studied it in the past from what I have read especially about game development it's not as great as it's cracked up to be especially when it comes up to what's referred to as "crunch time." Which is close to a games release date where some developers can work more than 60 hours per week.

    Depending on the type of games that you enjoy, you could try modding them either by creating a mod of your own or getting involved in an existing project.

    For example, games that I know that support modding is Farming Simulator 2019 and Kerbal Space Program as I said above you could always have a look that some already existing mods for these games on GitHub and try experimenting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,338 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Smiles35 wrote: »
    The games are so complicated they rival the complexity of any engineering project. A lot to say, a lot to show.

    Another issue is that because games are so much larger and more complex, most people working in the industry on bigger games would only be working on or see such small slivers of the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Why do you phrase this as if you are already dead? At 34 I decided I wanted to get into game dev, learned Unity and C# via online tutorials (having never done coding before) and put out my first (free) little VR game on Steam less than a year later. I'm now working on my first commercial game.

    There is absolutely nothing stopping you. Regrets are meaningless. Either you want it enough to put the effort in or you don't - now or then, it doesn't matter except that it's much easier now.

    Game dev has literally never been easier. The tools available are so good, so accessible, and entirely free. Unity and Unreal both have free licenses for indie devs. Blender is fully fledged 3D modelling software. Gimp is a fully fledged graphics editor. There are more comprehensive "learn to be a game dev" tutorial series available for free than you can shake a stick at. Sound effects, music, and atmospheric tracks have never been easier to get for free.

    If you really regret it you can do it right now. Go.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 58 ✭✭Cyclical Apocalypse


    I completely agree with the poster above it's never too late to get involved in things you enjoy and learn new things.

    I've heard good things about this game engine apparently it's quite simple to use in comparison to others and the benefit is it's free and open source.

    https://godotengine.org/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    People talk up Godot a lot, and it's neat for such a new engine and for being open source, but it's honestly just not as complete or professional as the more established engines. Unity and Unreal both have a decade+ of development and refinement behind them, and they are entirely free unless you make big bucks. There is really no logical reason to go with Godot other than open-source idealism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I was only thinking this myself the other day, when I was of college going years there was no mention of game design/development. One would have had to do a 'normal' IT course and branch off on their own (2001 - there may have been courses in Dubland, but **** that place). I've so many ideas, some of which I've 'developed' a bit in my mind, but getting to the stage of writing stuff down. Only thing preventing me from doing more is not knowing where to start.

    As you said Zillah, there's so much content out there now, for free. But I find it hard to wade through them all and get the 'good' ones. I was thinking of starting in Unity, as my initial attempts are going to be 2.5D platformers, so I don't know if this would be the best program for that. I have another idea for a gaming related App, but even less knowledge on where to start there!

    I also procrastinate a lot... But I do want to actually start this, because I just can't find a job I genuinely like doing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    I was thinking of starting in Unity, as my initial attempts are going to be 2.5D platformers, so I don't know if this would be the best program for that. I have another idea for a gaming related App, but even less knowledge on where to start there!

    Unity is great for any format of game. Not ideal for a non-game app as a game engine tends to hog resources and eat battery, but if you learn C# for Unity then you could also use it for making apps with Xamarin.

    I haven't done much 2D stuff, but I guess 2.5D is really just a 3D game with limitations. Anyway, this guy on Youtube is great:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCGBMmMOFw&list=PLFt_AvWsXl0fnA91TcmkRyhhixX9CO3Lw

    And this guy:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j48LtUkZRjU&list=PLPV2KyIb3jR53Jce9hP7G5xC4O9AgnOuL

    There are a few dozen hours of tutorials for you. Unity also does their own official tutorials, which should be done but are a bit more hit and miss in quality and consistency. They are currently overhauling their 'onboarding' of new users though, and the new videos seem better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,416 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    Like Zillah says, there is loads and loads of resources, getting involved has really never been easier.

    That said, in my mind, it's far better to work on passion projects or something you can work on in your spare time. I worked in games for a few years and the industry is very harsh. Very difficult to get permanent roles, long hours, crap pay and the knowledge that a huge number of people want to work in games means that you are easily replaced. I now work in enterprise software instead for far more money so I can free up more time and mod games for fun. I do want to build my own game at some point but babies and a masters has made it hard to commit time just yet but have a plan for next year to begin working on it.

    I'd second the use of Unity, it's really built as the entry level games development engine. Unreal is more difficult to get to grips with but is equally very impressive, but you can now get access to the Crytek engine, Amazon's Lumberyard and plenty of ones targeting individuals not as comfortable with coding such as godot and gamemaker. I think steam have about 6 or 7 different engines to play with.

    But personally, I've found Unity's tutorials and community unparalleled for causal use.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Smiles35 wrote: »
    Anyone have regrets about not getting involved in game development?
    Can always get into it as a hobby. learn java/C# etc or you can use Unity game engine for free to create 3D or 2d games loads of info out there.

    Game engines take out the complexity of working with c++ etc and allow you deal with the game logic itself.Highly recommend it.

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Sorry should of read the full thread rather than just replying to the OP!:o:o

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Used to run a modding website made some levels for MOHAA, got an interview with EA SF from that.....they offered 25k per year for me to make levels for their games. ( it would have been MOH Breaktrough DLC)

    At the time had 2 kids in dublin with a 500pm mortgage.

    Best place i could find with 1hr travel in SF was 25k per year :confused:

    So yeah I have regrets but not about the ****e devs have to put up with, more with the fact i guess i was reasonably talented at making worlds for players to play in and never really pursued it. << thats what I have regrets about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    yes I hear San Fran is prohibitively expensive

    did you go on to do any other mods?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    the ****e devs have to put up with,

    For a lot of people it would be the dream job..the reality is so different...the game companies that treat the devs right are an exception and not the rule sadly

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Administrators Posts: 53,487 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Working in the game development industry would be an excellent way to kill your enjoyment of gaming.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 58 ✭✭Cyclical Apocalypse


    I can't remember the exact saying but hasn't it been said the best way to kill your passion for a hobby is for you to turn it into a full-time job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    Yahtzee is currently doing a game development series, 12 games in 12 months. An interesting look at the world of game development with constrictions of time and a small team (i.e. himself). Using GameMaker Studio 2, which is free for a trial period, but can escalate in cost rapidly thereafter (but I'm sure it or resources like it pop up in Humble Bundles too).



    As others have said, plenty of resources out there. Might be worth keeping an eye on the free Udemy courses thread for daily offers: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057198335

    Maybe it won't be a full time role, maybe you'll be able to forge your own path. But I wouldn't say it's too late to try :)

    🤪



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    The programming scene is so saturated...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I know two people closely involved in this, one is a games developer and the other is involved in some high tech stuff (no idea of the actual detailed job but some kind of infrastructure security) for Intel.

    The first guy got into development around 7 years ago or so and is working for one of the bigger developers for the last 3-4 years now. Total gamer at heart and desperately wanted to be one growing up. He hates it, he's miserable and constantly exhausted. His pay isn't great and is looking at getting a job in a bank instead.

    My own son actually said a few times he wanted to be a game dev, and this guy sat him down and told him not to do it, unless the job is very different when he's old enough.

    The second guy lives and working in Seoul, and love his job. But, about a year or so ago he was offered a great promotion and a huge payrise, but he'd have to move to San Francisco. After checking it out though, it turned out the extreme amount he'd have to spend on rent, he'd end up with basically the same wage but less to save up when you consider expenses and so on.

    You couldn't pay me enough to live and work in San Francisco.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sephiroth_dude


    I would love to get into the programming side of it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,922 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Been there. Did a crunch job and loved it but only because it was over in 6 months. Would not do it again.

    If you are seriously thinking about being a game dev and want to actually have a job that's rewarding you'll have to set up your own small indie dev team. There's a huge amount of risk involved in that.

    Also if you think you are going to be the ideas guy on a indie project then forget about it. You'll need to bring something else to the project or you'll be dead weight and anyone you try to hire will know that. Learn to code.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Learn to code.
    reported


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    When I read about Rockstar accurately modelling horse testicles, from a culture of Crunch, I thank goodness a job in Bath at a games firm fell through about 10 years ago & I went on another path. The industry sounds like a churn of bad pay, bad management, and little job security or satisfaction.

    But! If you want to learn the hows, it has also never been easier to "bedroom" code without diving full into the maelstrom of AAA dev.

    If you have an idea, just go for it. Pick up Unreal, Unity, GameMaker and make it happen. Many indie greats are 1, 2 people jobs.

    Better to regret something you did do, than regret something you didn't.

    I still do a little game coding in my spare time - in JavaScript would you believe - but I get very disheartened very quickly. Mechanics and systems quickly explode in complexity to perform otherwise simple gameplay loops onscreen. It's possibly just my ideas exceed my grasp


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sephiroth_dude


    pixelburp wrote: »

    I still do a little game coding in my spare time - in JavaScript would you believe - but I get very disheartened very quickly. Mechanics and systems quickly explode in complexity to perform otherwise simple gameplay loops onscreen. It's possibly just my ideas exceed my grasp

    I've seen people use JS for making web games alright, What kind of stuff have you done?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've seen people use JS for making web games alright, What kind of stuff have you done?

    Mostly proofs of concept than anything completed, the furthest being a basic base-building RTS. Work with phaser.io which is a fairly popular JS game engine, as you say it's mostly used for browser games. Only thing i completed was a pathfinding plugin that could do efficient unit pathfinding across large tilemaps (as part of the RTS, released the plugin on GitHub)

    JavaScript is my professional bread and butter so it's easier to work on the side with it than switch contexts to a more demanding language. I believe GameMaker supports JS though, haven't looked into it mind you...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I still do a little game coding in my spare time - in JavaScript would you believe - but I get very disheartened very quickly. Mechanics and systems quickly explode in complexity to perform otherwise simple gameplay loops onscreen. It's possibly just my ideas exceed my grasp

    There really are two stages to learning coding. The first is learning the syntax and fundamental principles of the language, and the second is architecture: learning to structure things in a way that makes large, complex systems manageable. Finite state machines, composition over inheritance, modularity, etc. The second stage is a lot more abstract and really takes a very different kind of thinking.

    It's the difference between learning the basic grammar of a language and knowing how to structure a plot over the course of a whole novel. I'm having a lot of false starts as I get a prototype system working, but realise by the end that the way I have done it won't scale very well, or will be messy when I try to integrate it with other systems, and have to do again a different way. But it happens less each time.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Zillah wrote: »
    There really are two stages to learning coding. The first is learning the syntax and fundamental principles of the language, and the second is architecture: learning to structure things in a way that makes large, complex systems manageable. Finite state machines, composition over inheritance, modularity, etc. The second stage is a lot more abstract and really takes a very different kind of thinking.

    It's the difference between learning the basic grammar of a language and knowing how to structure a plot over the course of a whole novel. I'm having a lot of false starts as I get a prototype system working, but realise by the end that the way I have done it won't scale very well, or will be messy when I try to integrate it with other systems, and have to do again a different way. But it happens less each time.

    I think the problem is that with JavaScript and Phaser, you gotta code every mechanic by hand: phaser is more a toolset for the fundamental grammar of games - sprites, scenes, physics system, input - but you gotta tie it all together manually bit by bit and that's the time consuming part. You end up writing a lot of code, just to deliver an otherwise minor aspect of a game (see aforementioned horse testicles). There's no IDE or editor ala Unity.

    Someone posted the Yahtzee experiment of a game a month and he hit upon a good point. I gotta try and focus on the core gameplay loop, nail that to perfection and the rest of the game will follow (citing that Mario 64 Devs spent an entire year tying down Mario's movement before even starting the rest of the game).

    Working with that in mind, in increasingly thinking the main problem is that the core loop isn't that interesting / doesn't work!


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