Not guilty by way of "insanity" - lolwut??

bo0li5eumx12kp

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0709/1061065-courts-insanity/


Hard to believe in this day and age this defense not only still exists, but has actually been used in this instance, to clear a dealer of prescription narcotics, of a cold blooded and brutal murder.

He broke into a kids house, using a tire iron, then trashed the house, using the tire iron - and then beat the 20 year old kids head in - again, using said tire iron.












Do you have faith in the justice system??

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Is he locked up now?

kneemos

Nice to see you have it all figured out. Maybe they'll just call round to your house in future,feckin courts and psychiatrists.

shanec1928

take a look at his youtube page and see for your self... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBi9CTwf4UOWBbM0wrGk27Q/videos

Frankie5Angels

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

Hard to believe in this day and age this defense not only still exists.

I know little of this case, but how is it so hard to believe this legal defence exists? I'm not talking about it in relation to this case, I'm talking generally.

Much of the rest of your post is conjecture, despite your assertions otherwise.

magic_murph

shanec1928 wrote: »

take a look at his youtube page and see for your self... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBi9CTwf4UOWBbM0wrGk27Q/videos

His videos should have been shown in evidence. Creepy.

Holland Prickly Wool

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0709/1061065-courts-insanity/


Hard to believe in this day and age this defense not only still exists, but has actually been used in this instance, to clear a dealer of prescription narcotics, of a cold blooded and brutal murder.

He broke into a kids house, using a tire iron, then trashed the house, using the tire iron - and then beat the 20 year old kids head in - again, using said tire iron.

It's common knowledge it was meant to be a warning as to payment for drugs - which are issued each month through the HSE.

Of course the recipients fill each script, use half, then sell the other half.

That's the truth surrounding this case.

Apparently some bookworm psychiatrist testified that the murderer did it cause a little man was whispering in his ear.

He was being treated with Dopamine blockers - AKA anti-psychotics.

Doesn't mean **** - him and half the country.

Sales of just one incarnation of this drug last year totaled more than 5 billion - and they're about 2.5 euro per monthly script.
That'll give you an idea just how many people are prescribed these drugs.

I have little doubt said shrink testified as such, to avoid the subsequent backlash on the HSE's psychiatry division for their continued incompetence and how poorly this would reflect on their practice.

Meanwhile - a ****ing bily-bad-ass wanna-be, drug deal/murder gets off, basically scott free.

Do you have faith in the justice system??

Maybe one of these days you'll be in for a rude awakening.

You have very little understanding of psychiatric health. Also, are you suggesting the defendant and victim were both drug dealers?

PinotNero

Where does it say he was a drug dealer?

bo0li5eumx12kp

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

I know little of this case, but how is it so hard to believe this legal defence exists? I'm not talking about it in relation to this case, I'm talking generally.

Much of the rest of your post is conjecture, despite your assertions otherwise.

Defense by insanity?

How do you characterize insanity?

Elevated limbic dopamine precipitates psychotic symptoms - auditory and visual hallucinations.

Can be brought on by stress, theorized - genetic risk factors, but it's a grey area.

Emotional dysregulation - I don't think is exactly a definition of insanity - perhaps personality disorder of some kind - but in the psychotic sense, it in no way alludes to the typical definition of mental illness.


When someone beats a younger, weaker, more vulnerable persons head in with a tire iron - to me, it certainly seems like an emotionally driven act.

I briefly looked at them youtube vids - assuming this is the creeped out murdered in question - one could quickly garner a well thought out pre-meditative state.


All things considered - in addition to the "conjecture" of the mental health patient selling benzos and GABA'ergics, gabapentine etc - and it was common knowledge both men dealt in the buying and selling of these drugs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's what.


As to why this defense still exists?
Your questioning why I'd question that?

Well, putting the "in general" to the side for the moment, in this case - it's clearly a cop out.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Deleted User wrote: »

You have very little understanding of psychiatric health. Also, are you suggesting the defendant and victim were both drug dealers?

Drug dealers?

As in, King Pin, El Chapo, Marco Polo?

Nah - the murderer (and plenty of patients in the mental health allocated block he lives/lived in), sell half their scripts each month.


What I'm saying is, mental illness, in the instance of painting the walls with an innocents mans blood in this case - is an absolute cop out, and yes, it seriously makes me question the competence of psychiatric practice on a whole.

bo0li5eumx12kp

kneemos wrote: »

Nice to see you have it all figured out. Maybe they'll just call round to your house in future,feckin courts and psychiatrists.

I've got it figured out enough to know that, wherever possible, I should never let myself be at the mercy of these people.

kneemos

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

Drug dealers?

As in, King Pin, El Chapo, Marco Polo?

Nah - the murderer (and plenty of patients in the mental health allocated block he lives/lived in), sell half their scripts each month.


What I'm saying is, mental illness, in the instance of painting the walls with an innocents mans blood in this case - is an absolute cop out, and yes, it seriously makes me question the competence of psychiatric practice on a whole.

So he lived on a mental health allocated block,but there's no way he could have been suffering from a mental health problem?

Suppose the cops don't investigate murders anymore either?

Frankie5Angels

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

How do you characterize insanity?

I don't. I can't. I'm not qualified to do so. I'm assuming the defence proved insanity by bringing in a number of people qualified to do so and, in doing so, convinced the jury that this man was not in possession of his faculties when he committed the act in question.

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

As to why this defense still exists?
Your questioning why I'd question that?

Yes, and you still haven't answered.

bo0li5eumx12kp

kneemos wrote: »

So he lived on a mental health allocated block,but there's no way he could have been suffering from a mental health problem?

Suppose the cops don't investigate murders anymore either?

Mate - you watch them creepy vids (which I never new existed until this thread)?

He's obviously got problems.

The point in question is - was it them problems that caused him to commit murder in such brutal fashion?

My argument is, to claim this, is like saying it's okay for a man to go out and rape some women, just cause he's horny.

Emotional instability, almost certainly.
Psychosis? Apparently.

Did those things cause him to kill that kid?

No.
See the former in relation to prescription drug sales.

Are they being used as an excuse to get him off the hook?

If you genuinely, in your educated heart and soul believe they're not - then please, come see me, cause I have this big red bridge in San Francisco I want to sell you.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Insane or not. Murdering someone makes you an extreme danger to society and it should be treated as such.

He should be inside a mental health facility for a long time.

kneemos

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

Mate - you watch them creepy vids (which I never new existed until this thread)?

He's obviously got problems.

The point in question is - was it them problems that caused him to commit murder in such brutal fashion?

My argument is, to claim this, is like saying it's okay for a man to go out and rape some women, just cause he's horny.

Emotional instability, almost certainly.
Psychosis? Apparently.

Did those things cause him to kill that kid?

No.
See the former in relation to prescription drug sales.

Are they being used as an excuse to get him off the hook?

If you genuinely, in your educated heart and soul believe they're not - then please, come see me, cause I have this big red bridge in San Francisco I want to sell you.

I'd be inclined to believe the opinion of the consultant forensic psychiatrist.

The case is not over yet anyway,he may well end up in custody.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

I don't. I can't. I'm not qualified to do so. I'm assuming the defence proved insanity by bringing in a number of people qualified to do so and, in doing so, convinced the jury that this man was not in possession of his faculties when he committed the act in question

That's the point I'm making here.

Some professional, for some ungodly reason, actually claimed his illness made him commit that murder.

My contention is - psychosis, in and of itself, does not give rise to the murderous impetus - and claiming it does, is nothing short of incompetent.

Yes, and you still haven't answered.

Same reason as above.

It's used as a cop out.
Who doesn't suffer a little emotional dysregulation from time to time?

You ever get mad - brah?

It's not excuse for a murder.

So he was a paranoid schizophrenic (translation - he suffered from a condition known as chronic or intractable psychosis, the persistent emergence of auditory/visual hallucinations).

So - some little green man stood on his shoulder told him to commit the murder - of a naive nightclub going kid/aspiring DJ, who was also implicated in the drug scene, and the murderer just happened to be scripted those drugs and housed in a location known to sell them?

But we're gonna blame it on the little green man none-the-less?

Really?

lol

Frankie5Angels

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

My argument is, to claim this, is like saying it's okay for a man to go out and rape some women, just cause he's horny.

Ah, holy Christ. Seriously?

bo0li5eumx12kp

kneemos wrote: »

I'd be inclined to believe the opinion of the consultant forensic psychiatrist.

The case is not over yet anyway,he may well end up in custody.

That's really, among other things, but specifically here - the crux of the problem.

Psychiatrists are MD's with mental health residencies.

i.e. outstanding academically, but they're tasked with the role of patient assessment.

To assess a person, that takes intuition, and it takes character.

And to be honest, the last person the world I'd task to do that, would be some book worm.
And have you ever met a shrink?
Half of them are spooked out of their own minds anyways.

"Psychiatry is descent" - RD Laing, psychiatrist.

Contemporary spin - "psychiatry is incompetent" - as this case is a resounding exhibition of.


The article I linked is says charges are dropped based on insanity.

That means he won't be charged with murder.

And that's bullshinanigans.

Cyclical Apocalypse

Seriously OP what are your qualifications in psychology or psychiatry?

And what makes you think that you know more than trained professionals who have years of experience working in mental health?

To be honest you are coming across on here as someone who has their own mental difficulties.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Ah, holy Christ. Seriously?

Wut?

They both fall directly in the realm of emotional regulation/process/dysregulation.

Seriously?

What is this seriously?

It's straight up logic.


Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's say this murder was committed on the basis of emotional dysregulation - and it was not drug related.

Does that make it okay?

People are held accountable for their actions, and actions are emotionally based.

Autecher

I know this is a serious subject and I'm not attempting to make light of it but LaptopGremlin, if you could never type "lolwut" again I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Cyclical Apocalypse wrote: »

Seriously OP what are your qualifications in psychology or psychiatry?

And what makes you think that you know more than trained professionals who have years of experience working in mental health?

To be honest you are coming across on here as someone who has their own mental difficulties.

This is a can of worms parallel to the point at hand.

Psychiatry and its failings - it's getting off topic.


And using mental illness as a form of rebuttal/defense, is the lowest kind of argument.

kneemos

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

That's really, among other things, but specifically here - the crux of the problem.

Psychiatrists are MD's with mental health residencies.

i.e. outstanding academically, but they're tasked with the role of patient assessment.

To assess a person, that takes intuition, and it takes character.

And to be honest, the last person the world I'd task to do that, would be some book worm.
And have you ever met a shrink?
Half of them a spooked out of their minds anyways.

"Psychiatry is descent" - RD Laing, psychiatrist.

Contemporary spin - "psychiatry is incompetent" - as this case is a resounding exhibition of.


The article I linked is says charges are dropped based on insanity.

That means he won't be charged with murder.

And that's bullshinanigans.

Not guilty due to insanity is not a free pass. If the court sees fit they will inter him in the central mental hospital.
Seems like the likely outcome.

Also I think you are putting two and two together regarding possible drug involvement in the case and getting twenty five.

weldoninhio

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

That's the point I'm making here.

Some professional, for some ungodly reason, actually claimed his illness made him commit that murder.

My contention is - psychosis, in and of itself, does not give rise to the murderous impetus - and claiming it does, is nothing short of incompetent.

That depends on the psychotic break the person has. You seem to think psychosis is a one size fits all, same symptoms for everyone.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

bo0li5eumx12kp

kneemos wrote: »

Not guilty due to insanity is not a free pass. If the court sees fit they will inter him in the central mental hospital.
Seems like the likely outcome.

Also I think you are putting two and two together regarding possible drug involvement in the case and getting twenty five.

You know what?

You're right.
I don't know the ins and outs as far as what will subsequently happen.

I just hope a scumbag like this never sees the light of day again.
If "central mental hospital" means locked up with ECT a couple times a week and nurse Ratched looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life - I'd be okay with that.

Certainly better that than what the verdict of "not guilty" translated as when I heard it.
i.e. no punishment.


As for drugs or no drugs - either way the point is - murder was committed cause the dude is rotten to the core, not cause he's mentally ill.
Psychosis doesn't precipitate murderous impetus, and emotional dysregulation in not validation or just cause for murder.

That's the point I think everyone should be clear on.

Arghus

This thread is dumb.

Cyclical Apocalypse

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

You know what?

You're right.
I don't know the ins and outs as far as what will subsequently happen.

I just hope a scumbag like this never sees the light of day again.
If "central mental hospital" means locked up with ECT a couple times a week and nurse Ratched looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life - I'd be okay with that.

Certainly better that than what the verdict of "not guilty" translated as when I heard it.
i.e. no punishment.


As for drugs or no drugs - either way the point is - murder was committed cause the dude is rotten to the core, not cause he's mentally ill.
Psychosis doesn't precipitate murderous impetus, and emotional dysregulation in not validation or just cause for murder.

That's the point I think everyone should be clear on.

I'll ask you again what qualifies you to say that the guy you mentioned isn't mentally ill?

And as another person on here, psychosis can lead to murder I hope this guy is given the appropriate treatment by qualified professionals and looked after and perhaps one day get better.

Nermal

Cyclical Apocalypse wrote: »

Seriously OP what are your qualifications in psychology or psychiatry?

Rosenhan experiment.

We cannot reliably tell the sane from the insane. The 'qualifications' you're asking him about are worthless.

Our legal system shouldn't attempt to distinguish between them either.

manonboard

shanec1928 wrote: »

take a look at his youtube page and see for your self... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBi9CTwf4UOWBbM0wrGk27Q/videos

That was chilling...

It's like he spent all his time just reading into a camera...I couldn't even find the end of the page. It just didnt end...

from "the last video"
"Since i masturbated about mentally imagining this bitch across the road, because she was mentally raping me for so long, years, literally years. But then i found that when you mentally masturbate and think about these things then that **** happens in the **** centers, then that bitch actually did get raped in that horrible fashion.
With that in mind, if anyone ever does bring me to court. I will masturbate about raping every single person involved, The arresting officers, the judge, the lawyers, the jury, and every single one of their family regardless of age.. every f***ing day, forever, all day.. thats all i do."

He also thinks there is a cloning center near by where they take your thoughts and put them into another body, and then abuse you...
He also seemed to have been abused deeply as a child in the cloning center by a local priest..


This guy is very very deeply disturbed. I am glad he is going to be committed and helped. I've no objection to any punishment after that but its clear he is mentally deranged.

ohnonotgmail

Holland Prickly Wool wrote: »

That's the point I'm making here.

Some professional, for some ungodly reason, actually claimed his illness made him commit that murder.

My contention is - psychosis, in and of itself, does not give rise to the murderous impetus - and claiming it does, is nothing short of incompetent.

You should consider writing a paper on the subject and sharing your vast knowledge of the subject with the rest of the world.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Free will probably doesn’t exist. Given this the aim of the courts should be to put away dangerous people then a commital to hospital is fine provided this guy isn’t released to murder again.

Lillyfae

Am I missing something? The guy is clearly mentally ill. How do you think those videos prove otherwise?

Cyclical Apocalypse

OP as a fully qualified armchair psychologist I hereby diagnose you with a case of Dunning Kruger syndrome.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

You come across as someone who thinks they are more intelligent than you actually are. If you were intelligent, you would realise just how stupid some of the stuff that you have written is.

Nermal

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Free will probably doesn’t exist. Given this the aim of the courts should be to put away dangerous people then a commital to hospital is fine provided this guy isn’t released to murder again.

Then he should be found guilty, and then imprisoned first in a hospital, and then when the 'experts' have pronounced him cured, serve out the remainder of his sentence in a prison.

SexBobomb

This guy is simply not in touch with reality, tragic really for the young man who was attacked. Unfortunately how can the health care professionals ensure these people take their medication if they're not in full time care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tJ7U72tvkM

paleoperson

Cyclical Apocalypse wrote: »

OP as a fully qualified armchair psychologist I hereby diagnose you with a case of Dunning Kruger syndrome.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

You come across as someone who thinks they are more intelligent than you actually are. If you were intelligent, you would realise just how stupid some of the stuff that you have written is.

Dunning-Kruger isn't a syndrome, it's an effect. Perhaps you should read your own link. And at this point is a cliched meme beaten and misused to death by dumb folk online.

It's a stupid theory - most people are quite aware of their failings in certain things and a lot of the time they are under-confident in their view of their own abilities. The entire theory exists only by confirmation bias. Even when people underestimate the skill required for something, that's more a personal bias.

I'm tired of people online making low-brow insults invoking "Dunning-Kruger" - people talking about things where you believe they haven't the knowledge or expertise to do it is extremely common. Even if Dunning-Kruger is a valid theory, you are using it completely wrongly. Do you actually believe that anyone here hasn't already heard of that? People have been pulling that **** out for the past ten years and I'm sick of it.

Do you really believe that you're going to somehow "educate" people and they'll say "gee well, I must've had Dunning-Kruger effect there", I mean it's just so ridiculous.

I agree with OP completely, he is spot on.

Sephiroth_dude

Mod

Locking this as this case is still before the courts, also gonna move it to CA as its better suited there.