Under counter lights in kitchen

funkey_monkey

Hi,

Recent new build house and the electrician was told not to install under counter lights in one part of the kitchen as it wasn't necessary.
Turns out this was a bad decision and I'm trying to see what is the easiest way to remedy the problem.

The remainder of the kitchen was done with LED strip lights. It is a simple install at the countertop. The problem is getting the power to it. Ideally I'd like to have the same switch power all the under counter lights. This will mean tracking the wall at least from the top of the high level units to the ceiling (having to remove coving).
I would then be able to run the cable down into the wall switch or possibly use a junction box in attic.

I notice that on the opposite side of the kitchen there is a faceplate just above the high level units which is unswitched. What is the purpose of this?

Is this a job for a DIY'er or should I get an electrician in for it? The main issue would be getting the wall chased - if there is no alternative. I'm not able to extend the power from the far side of the kitchen as there is nowhere to hide the cabling across the gap (large window).
The are sockets on the wall below the high level cupboard, but that would mean a different switch required - which is a nonsense as it would still require chasing.

Any possible alternatives to chasing down from the ceiling?


Thanks.

Stoner

You can use sonoff RF units and pair them to the one RF switch. Its radio frequency controlled and will allow you to switch items fed from different circuits at the same time wirelessly.

Up to the attic sounds like overkill. You really only need to get power underneath the countertop there should be a solution that stays within the kitchen.

funkey_monkey

Does that requires connecting the sonoff into the face plate?
The current switch is in a 4 gang switch.
There is a wall plate above the cupboards in the illuminated area. I've not opened it, but could it be placed there?

How do I then get the power up to the lights under the counter in your design?
That will still require tracking or a flying lead up to it?

Stoner

Well there might be a supply near by the an electrician could tap off and pop into a switched fused spur and fuse it at 5 amps

You could leave the 4 gang in place. The sonoff would be wired just before the first light on the circuit, after the switch

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I've been asked again about this :pac:

The solution here would still require chasing - but at the countertop level, correct?

The owner is considering just tapping into feed in attic and trunking it down from the ceiling. Problem with this is that they have 'C' profile coving around the ceiling and I'm not sure if I can get any trunking which will sit flush with the coving at the joint.

Any suggestions?

keithdub

Can you put up a picture?

funkey_monkey

Not 'on site' so to speak as it is not my house.

However, to describe; double low level units into corner, with 5+ units out of corner in the perpendicular direction. High level units above the double low level, and a single high level on the perpendicular direction (ends at a window).
Double socket on each wall - painted wall, no tiles betweeen low and high level units. Corner unit has gap behind to feed cable down if necessary. The high level units have a trim on the bottom edge (and top) which will hide the lighting.

Taking a trim down from attic as originally thought will require some type of solution for the coving which looks like:




The options suggested by Stoner would only require a small bit of tracking up from a socket (or even just a tap into the conduit on its way down to the socket).

However, just as I typed this about tapping into the conduit I realised that what he could do would be to burst into the conduit through the plaster on its way down to the double socket above the high level cabinet and take an output for the under cabinet lights there. He would then have the option of taking a splice from the lighting circuit (I think this would be optimum) in the attic and feeding it in or just taking the power from there and putting in the RF switch.

Also is the RF switch just an RF switch or is it actually a WiFi switch?


Sorry I've no photos.

2011

I had to deal with a situation like this before. I changed the socket outlet for the extract fan from a single to a double. A special double socket can be purchased that will work on a single box. This provided me with power on top of the presses for the under counter lights without any chasing. I plugged an LED driver on top of the presses and fed under counter lights from this. They were supplied from a cable that I slid behind the presses. The LED driver was fed from a Sonoff switch that plugged into the new socket. The Sonoff switch could then be operated by Google Home, a smart phone, a timer (set up on the app), by remote controller etc. anyway a simple cheap solution with no chasing.

funkey_monkey

2011 wrote: »

I had to deal with a situation like this before. I changed the socket outlet for the extract fan from a single to a double. A special double socket can be purchased that will work on a single box. This provided me with power on top of the presses for the under counter lights without any chasing. I plugged an LED driver on top of the presses and fed under counter lights from this. They were supplied from a cable that I slid behind the presses. The LED driver was fed from a Sonoff switch that plugged into the new socket. The Sonoff switch could then be operated by Google Home, a smart phone, a timer (set up on the app), by remote controller etc. anyway a simple cheap solution with no chasing.

Can the RF switch work off the other led lighting circuit being powered up.
The situation I have had no accessible power without chasing or trunking - that I can figure out.
The main part of the kitchen which contains the fan etc is illuminated. This is a small irritated section which was originally thought to be not required but now the owners are living there it has become a main area for some chores.

keithdub

A picture would be a great help I have to put in extra lighting points in kitchens before its handy enough but you would need a picture to see how to do it

Risteard81

2011 wrote: »

A special double socket can be purchased that will work on a single box.

Converta is one of the common makes of them.

funkey_monkey

Risteard81 wrote: »

Converta is one of the common makes of them.

I have used these types of sockets before, but they will not suit in this place.

There are no sockets above the top cupboards. To the right is a window so power cannot be fed across from the other units.

At present, the only option is to drop a cable down the corner from the loft, which is my last favoured option as it is a cheap ass solution and lacks tidiness.

The other option is to break into the conduit going vertically up from the sockets and install a surface box to feed out power for the lights. This is my current preferred option, but I'm unsure how to break into the conduit neatly.

I could locate the cable, grind a series of slots into the plaster and break into it that way. There are tiles on the opposite side of the wall so I'm conference's about affecting them by tearing into the plaster on this side.

See image.

funkey_monkey

This is how the other side was hooked up:

cheif kaiser

Is there no socket in behind the fridge that you can chase up from?

funkey_monkey

cheif kaiser wrote: »

Is there no socket in behind the fridge that you can chase up from?

That is just a cupboard, not a fridge on the left. The only electrical outlets in that area are the two double sockets.

meercat

I’d move that newspaper from around that transformer.( Some heat up or loose connection may cause a fire)
Any good/experienced electrician would do this job handy enough
A cable down the back of that tall unit and under the kick board would gain access to the other side.
Solid or dry lined walls?
Any pic of rhs of window

funkey_monkey

meercat wrote: »

I’d move that newspaper from around that transformer.( Some heat up or loose connection may cause a fire)
Any good/experienced electrician would do this job handy enough
A cable down the back of that tall unit and under the kick board would gain access to the other side.
Solid or dry lined walls?
Any pic of rhs of window

I'll tidy those papers up. They are there to hold the dust that accumulates over time.

The walls are solid.

The RHS is a mirror of the LHS, albeit with the under counter lights. Getting the cable to the other side is one thing, but then there needs to be something done to get it up to the power supply which I think will still require some chasing.

meercat

If there’s a tall unit other side then bring wiring up that. Connect new cable into junction behind blank plate.

funkey_monkey

meercat wrote: »

If there’s a tall unit other side then bring wiring up that. Connect new cable into junction behind blank plate.

Unfortunately not, it is just high and low level in a horse shoe shape with a gap where a cooker is installed around to a fridge unit on the opposite side.
There is a point underneath for an integrated dish washer which might be usable but I've taken a look at it and it seems a bit of a job to get the cable down and around to the spur for the dishwasher with a hidden 90deg bend to negotiate and then pull it up through to above the high level units in order to link into the supply for the other under counter lights. It feels like more work than doing in a new wire in the correct location.

I might look at getting a spark in to look at this. I can only work at it in did and bursts and this seems a bigger job then I previously thought.

If I could drill directly into the conduit which is dropping down into one of the double sockets and then use a surface mounted fused spur with flex outlet I would give it go. My only concerns with this would be drilling into the conduit accurately and whether the the would allow me to take a cable directly out without conduit shielding it.

Bruthal

If it is a plastic conduit embedded in a block wall, you can usually tap with a hammer to break away the surface plaster over it. I've done this a fair few times to add in sockets etc down the years. I'd carefully cut a slot in the plastic pipe then, to bring the cable out. If there were 2 cables, you'd have to pull one up from socket below and replace with a new link long enough to go into new outlet along with the cable just pulled out, to reclose the loop.

The socket below would want to be directly below though.

meercat

Pictures of whole kitchen would help including where existing lights are.
Also have a look in room beside where you require new strip lights in case cables can be fed up or down.

No more than an hour or 2 for a competent/experienced person/tradesman

funkey_monkey

Thanks.

Yes, I'll be handing this one over to a tradesman as I've not got a way of successfully and accurately locating the conduit as the box has at least two knockouts in the top.
Shame as it would have been a nice job to do.

Sharp MZ700

Bruthal wrote: »

If it is a plastic conduit embedded in a block wall, you can usually tap with a hammer to break away the surface plaster over it. I've done this a fair few times to add in sockets etc down the years. I'd carefully cut a slot in the plastic pipe then, to bring the cable out. If there were 2 cables, you'd have to pull one up from socket below and replace with a new link long enough to go into new outlet along with the cable just pulled out, to reclose the loop.

The socket below would want to be directly below though.

Often split the conduit vertically for a few cms with an insulate knife, long nose pliers to prise it open and "peel" the conduit off and do exactly as you say. Surface box for the socket, covering the whole lot afterwards.

funkey_monkey

I had asked this question on a UK based forum as I'm in the occupied counties.
I was told there that it needed a t box in the conduit. Is that correct?

meercat

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I had asked this question on a UK based forum as I'm in the occupied counties.
I was told there that it needed a t box in the conduit. Is that correct?

It’s 5 months since you opened this thread.my advice is to get a rec to price and do this work at this stage.

funkey_monkey

meercat wrote: »

It’s 5 months since you opened this thread.my advice is to get a rec to price and do this work at this stage.

Doing myself now. It's not a pressing priority so only recently came back up to top of my list.

funkey_monkey

Went up into attic this morning to see what was needed for this job. Completey forgot that the conduits would also contain the cable to the next socket on the cruit - so there are two cables in the conduit. Putting a third cable into the socket is a non runner.
I could split the cable in the attic into a junction so the feed in would now supply both sockets. This is not ideal as I would now put a junction into the radial circuit at the first socket. Is there a way around this or is a new approached needed?

keithdub

Best off getting someone in

funkey_monkey

Thanks to Covid-19 I've now got this done.
Just above the high level cupboards I tapped into conduit supplying sockets at worktop and added a fused spur. This gave me power.

I then got a Mains Switch and connected the transmitter to where the lights were currently installed. Connected the receiver unit to the spur and then receiver out to the LED driver which was fed down to the lights.

All works now - so happy with the outcome. The lights takes take a good 3s to activate via the Mains Switch, but that is not an issue for me.

There are shadows on floor from the lights and the low level units, but there is no way I'm going to add anything to the kickboards at this stage for them.