friends' rental problem - best way forwards?

RoadRunner · 10-07-2019 10:19am #1

Hi. A friend of a friend has the following problem.

Two co-renters live in a rented house.
Person a pays rent and bills to person b.
Person b is the main contact with the letting agency and pays the rental agency, however Person b stopped working recently and has stopped paying utilities with electricity now having just been cut with a large amount owed.
Person A really struggled to find a place to live in the beginning and doesn't want to leave. Also they paid a deposit to person b in the beginning, but there's a high likelyhood that person b has spent that deposit and can't return it to person a.

Both renters are not irish and can't just 'move back to parents house' for a bit. What would be the best course of action for person a at this point.

amcalester · 10-07-2019 10:24am

Is A named on the lease or a licensee of B?

Regardless, A shouldn't hand over any more money to B until B has a plan on how to pay back what is owed.

RoadRunner · 10-07-2019 10:27am

amcalester wrote: »

Is A named on the lease or a licensee of B?

A is named on the lease

amcalester · 10-07-2019 10:35am

RoadRunner wrote: »

A is named on the lease

Then A is also liable for the full rent, not just their portion. Is the rent up to date?

If A is named on the lease then it's reasonable to assume the deposit is held by the agency/landlord rather than B but if B isn't paying the rent then the it'll be eaten up by the arrears.

Hard to see a clear path for A that doesn't end up costing them, moving may well be the cheapest option.

Has B looked into availing of all welfare supports available?

RoadRunner · 10-07-2019 10:57am

Actually I believe A's share of the deposit was paid to B directly.
Yeah, It doesn't sound like a liveable situation to me :mad:.

As there's no electricity and there's money owing for that under B's name, the house is not habitable longterm. Person A did pay their part for the electricity and that wasn't paid by B. So B has kept that money, is that theft? Should/could A go to the guards?

Will A now have extra problems trying to rent a future place (getting a reference or whatever)? This breakdown has obviously been completely caused by B

10-07-2019 11:07am

If A is on lease and rent is not being paid, I’m pretty certain a reference will not be forthcoming.

Claw Hammer · 10-07-2019 12:04pm

A should go to the guards, lock B out, pay the outstanding bill and get i a replacement flatmate who is honest and reliable.

Blackcurrent Lemsip · 10-07-2019 12:08pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A should go to the guards, lock B out, pay the outstanding bill and get i a replacement flatmate who is honest and reliable.

wow

OP don't even think of doing that.

What do you think the gardai are actually going to do.

Claw Hammer · 10-07-2019 12:13pm

The guards will probably say it is civil even though it is theft by a bailee. They might seek to interview the flatmate however.

Blackcurrent Lemsip · 10-07-2019 12:32pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The guards will probably say it is civil even though it is theft by a bailee. They might seek to interview the flatmate however.

More than likely fob him off unless he's violent.

Locking him out however, he could book himself into a B&B or hotel and hit the other guy with the bill. He's not a licensee or lodger.

Obviously he deserves kicking out but ............

Blackcurrent Lemsip · 10-07-2019 12:34pm

@Roadrunner has A any proof of paying bills or was it just cash

Claw Hammer · 10-07-2019 1:20pm

Blackcurrent Lemsip wrote: »

More than likely fob him off unless he's violent.

Locking him out however, he could book himself into a B&B or hotel and hit the other guy with the bill. He's not a licensee or lodger.

Obviously he deserves kicking out but ............

What hotel or B&B will take him? How is he going to sue on the bill? Deal in reality.

Blackcurrent Lemsip · 10-07-2019 2:22pm

<SNIP>

Claw Hammer · 10-07-2019 2:51pm

<SNIP>

Graham · 10-07-2019 2:51pm

Mod Note

Blackcurrant Lemsip/Claw Hammer. If you can't be civil, don't post.

RoadRunner · 10-07-2019 3:57pm

Blackcurrent Lemsip wrote: »

@Roadrunner has A any proof of paying bills or was it just cash

done with bank transfers (included in with the rent) from A to B

GGTrek · 10-07-2019 6:43pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A should go to the guards, lock B out, pay the outstanding bill and get i a replacement flatmate who is honest and reliable.

I would add that A should also contact asap the landlord about this, provide background check of new flatmate and get permission in order to avoid breaching no subletting clause of lease which most likely is present. Then move the electricity account to his/her own name (the electricity provider will not mind as long as outstanding bill amount is paid).

This is what has become of Ireland, people have to take the law in their own hands because of the massive protections afforded by the populist politicians to thieves of all kind.

Mrs OBumble · 10-07-2019 6:53pm

A should arrange to start paying the LL directly ASAP: wayyy too much risk that A's share of the rent isn't reaching him/her.

Always Tired · 10-07-2019 6:55pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The guards will probably say it is civil even though it is theft by a bailee. They might seek to interview the flatmate however.

They'll do absolutely nothing, lol

If A is the one on the lease why is B the 'main contact to the letting agency'? Makes no sense

Glass fused light · 10-07-2019 7:05pm

Always Tired wrote: »

They'll do absolutely nothing, lol

If A is the one on the lease why is B the 'main contact to the letting agency'? Makes no sense

Assuming the letting agent onlyn wants one full payment for the rental rather than chasing 2 payments in the bank ac and getting dragged into who has to pay if one payment is not made.

TSQ · 10-07-2019 7:12pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

Assuming the letting agent onlyn wants one full payment for the rental rather than chasing 2 payments in the bank ac and getting dragged into who has to pay if one payment is not made.

If A has been there for 6 months then A can apply to the landlord tobecome a tenant rather than, as it appears at the moment, a licencee of B. Am not sure what choices A will have re paying his share of rent separately, and if the landlord can insist on a joint tenancy, making A and B equally liable for all the rent. Better ask PRTB for advice.

Glass fused light · 10-07-2019 7:44pm

TSQ wrote: »

If A has been there for 6 months then A can apply to the landlord tobecome a tenant rather than, as it appears at the moment, a licencee of B. Am not sure what choices A will have re paying his share of rent separately, and if the landlord can insist on a joint tenancy, making A and B equally liable for all the rent. Better ask PRTB for advice.

post 3 he is on the lease, so it would be unusual not to have each person on the lease equally liable for 100% of the rent

My post was more on the letting agent not wanting extra work for one lease.
Eg has 30 rentals but 100 individuals across the rentals 25 of whom pay for different size rooms. So that's 70 extra data entry points someone in the office has to do and then write to all the tenants in house X as someone has not paid their share of the rent

TSQ · 10-07-2019 8:41pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

post 3 he is on the lease, so it would be unusual not to have each person on the lease equally liable for 100% of the rent

Sorry, missed that...looks like it could be just as risky being a joint tenant as being a landlord if rent is withheld. He certainly needs to stop giving B any money at all.

Glass fused light · 10-07-2019 9:15pm

TSQ wrote: »

Sorry, missed that...looks like it could be just as risky being a joint tenant as being a landlord if rent is withheld. He certainly needs to stop giving B any money at all.

No it's not more "risky" if you sign up to a joint tenant contract with someone you always owe the landlord 100% of the rent, it's just that the other person makes payments reducing the amount owed each month. (Pedantic but true).

It's this kind of basic living skills which need to be taught in schools along side cooking

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 10-07-2019 9:19pm

<SNIP>

Fan of Netflix · 10-07-2019 9:39pm

To be honest I couldn't see the Gardai helping with this.

LuckyLloyd · 11-07-2019 6:17am

1) A should approach the letting agent and appraise them of the situation and figure out if the rent is up to date.
2) A should talk to B and ask for the Utility bills, etc, and note that they want to transfer the accounts and that they need to update any amounts owed to do so

This will surface the amounts owed to landlord and utilities. Any further payments by A need to be made directly to landlord / letting agent or utilities.

If your friend can’t handle conflict or doesn’t like drama or other such, tough tits. Talking head on to the people involved here and taking control of their money is necessary.

Mrs OBumble · 11-07-2019 7:20am

Glass fused light wrote: »

No it's not more "risky" if you sign up to a joint tenant contract with someone you always owe the landlord 100% of the rent, it's just that the other person makes payments reducing the amount owed each month. (Pedantic but true).

Yeah but person A has no visibility of whether their payments are actually reaching the LL or not.

If B has become unwell ( presumably they have, since they've stopped working) anything could be happening to the cash.

Whether they are jointly liable depends on what the lease says: sometimes they're done on a room by room basis.

4ensic15 · 11-07-2019 7:33am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yeah but person A has no visibility of whether their payments are actually reaching the LL or not.

If B has become unwell ( presumably they have, since they've stopped working) anything could be happening to the cash.

Whether they are jointly liable depends on what the lease says: sometimes they're done on a room by room basis.

If itb was room by room, the rent would be collected room by room not through one tenant. the O/p and his flatmate are on the same lease. He is liable to the landlord for the missing rent and paying his own share is not going to help him.

RoadRunner · 11-07-2019 9:05am

Quick update. A) Spoke to guards who said it was a civil matter and wont do anything.

The rent has/is being paid is seems for now- but not sure for how long this can happen. The problem has been that utilities are not being paid and this makes the house barely liveable.

RoadRunner · 11-07-2019 9:08am

TSQ wrote: »

Better ask PRTB for advice.

Thanks, is that https://www.rtb.ie ?

Glass fused light · 11-07-2019 9:33am

RoadRunner wrote: »

Thanks, is that https://www.rtb.ie ?

Its a 'gov' organisation which deals with tenant landlord disputes.
As your friends problem is with the other tenant it will be of no help.
The only option is to get the other tenant to pay their rent into the friends bank ac. And pay this to the agency. If he only pays his % he can still be evicted for non-payment as 100% of the rent is due on the agreed pay date.
It's the same with the utilities he needs to move the accounts into his name and pay the full bill if he wants the services. Extracting the money for the others share is a 'domestic' matter.

He could try getting out of the lease but the other tenant would have to agree to do this. Or to assign the lease to someone who will move in and replace him as tenant.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2019 2:51pm

RoadRunner wrote: »

Quick update. A) Spoke to guards who said it was a civil matter and wont do anything.

The rent has/is being paid is seems for now- but not sure for how long this can happen. The problem has been that utilities are not being paid and this makes the house barely liveable.

You should write a letter to the Superintendent of the local station. Keep a copy and get proof of delivery.

friends' rental problem - best way forwards?

Comments