First class / sleeper rail around Europe

L1011

My partner has suggested we do this (in late Autumn) nstead of a city break (before Christmas) and while I'm up for the idea I know very very little about it really - we always fly.

Thinking of maybe 6 days - 4 cities/hotels and 2 nights on sleepers, possibly starting on Eurostar if the UK isn't a basket case and hitting Germany and Italy. Can fly back from anywhere so probably not doing to complete a circuit. Would only want to use normal scheduled trains, no Belmond grade stuff as I can't afford that!

Anyone done this before?

otnomart

L1011 wrote: »

Anyone done this before?

Have not done it, however have read that night trains in Western Europe have been disappearing.
Cheap flights and also high speed trains are some of the causes.
For list of night trains: https://www.interrail.eu/en/plan-your-trip/trains-europe/night-trains
To plan train travel, the one and only bible is Seat 61 https://www.seat61.com/

shar01

Did Budapest to Brasov to Bucharest last year.

Have done Berlin to Prague to Bratislava before.

Also flew into Basel the onto Baden Baden. Then Baden Baden to Marianske Lazne via Nuremburg. That was a trip and a half. Finished up in Budapest.

This year it's a more sedate Munich to Salzburg to Budapest.

Used Seat61 and booked in advance to get cheap tickets.

L1011

There's a tiny fraction of the sleepers there once were definitely - but I wouldn't have done every night on them anyway! Showers are still a rarity onboard and so on and I'm also a few nights short of retaining status with Radisson and NH so I've reasons to pick hotels

Will look at that site when I get back to the house

shar01

Sure planning is half the fun. The only sleeper we did in Europe was Budapest to Brasov.

id be more inclined to do the rail from point to point and book hostel/airbnb each night.

ok, you dont make the saving on nights accommodation and you dont travel in yr sleep, but the nights sleep is almost always better and yes, showers.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

id be more inclined to do the rail from point to point and book hostel/airbnb each night.

ok, you dont make the saving on nights accommodation and you dont travel in yr sleep, but the nights sleep is almost always better and yes, showers.

To a certain point saving money isn't part of this, it'll be Irish 4*+ equivalent hotels not hostels (but the orient express is still out!). The sleepers are something to see before they're all gone.

I once flew to Portland via Montreal and Chicago to pick up an aircraft model that was being retired so what seems sensible and what I do don't always tie together!

Nermal

Have done Munich to Venice, it was a great experience. Little bottle of prosecco to kick things off and a decent continental breakfast in the morning as you arrive. The only issue with a lot of these trains is that you arrive quite early the next day, sometimes before anything is open!

rossie1977

There are some good video blogs on YouTube

L1011

Worked out a rough idea using the newer or refurbed night trains

Day 1 Fly to London Eurostar to Brussels, ICE to Cologne, stay Cologne
Day 2 ICE to Munich, OBB Nightjet to Rome
Day 3 Arrive Rome, stay Rome
Day 4 Red Arrow to Milan, stay Milan
Day 5 Thello to Paris overnight
Day 6 fly home

All travel and cabins in the most premium class except the Red Arrow - because the most premium class there is absolutely bonkers, a hotel conference centre on wheels - so just the class below there!.

Random week in October the travel and sleeper cabins worked out as 1050 per person including biz class flights to London/from Paris or 850 economy flights - if I had the cash to book it right now. It'll be two weeks until I do. The from Paris biz class is only AerSpace so definitely not worth it but might still do Club Europe to London.

Seat61 is invaluable for seeing the service quality so thanks again to those that mentioned it.

L1011

I eventually only booked this in late September; and by then the Munich-Rome sleeper had no cabins on the night I wanted - and I'm not doing couchettes! Some other changes were encouraged by fare rises. Going next weekend.

Day 1 - fly to Amsterdam, train to Dusseldorf via Arnhem. Overnight in a Dusseldorf hotel
Day 2 - train to Munich. Overnight train to Milan
Day 3 - arrive in Milan, overnight in a Milan hotel
Day 4 - daytime train to Verona, overnight in a Verona hotel
Day 5 - overnight train to Paris
Day 6 - arrive Paris, fly back

All booked, all in First except the Munich-Milan train that was sold out in that class (had to go for a standard cabin); and economy flights - came to ~950 each; with the Dusseldorf hotel booked as a loyalty points redemption, cause that night was insanely expensive.

Already got a notification that the train to Paris is going to be over two hours late because of track works and had to spend 140 (so another 70 on that 950) on pushing the flights later just in case... there are no other close transfers except the Munich one so hopefully there's little else to go wrong!

65bl

Enjoy the trip. Would very much like to read a trip report / hear about any experiences and observations when you get back. BL

L1011

Back with zero missed connections although one incident could have been problematic

First Class on the Dutch trains isn't worth it. Wider seats, nothing else. They don't cater and the unit we were on had filthy drop toilets like the 1990s here! Would have saved very very little though.

ICE first is nice but a bit overpriced. One attendent goes up and down with free branded Ritter chocolate bars every so often, there's better wifi and power provision, and you can get to-seat catering in proper crockery and glassware. Food is more than acceptable. If there's multiple cars you won't see the attendant much though.

The OBB Nightjet was moved from its scheduled platform to one some considerable distance away in the commuter station outside Munich Hbf with barely any notice - and it remained on the old platform board with a tiny additional number for the new one! Barely made it across in time after realising.

These are some of the newest sleeper cars around but they were a bit more cramped than I was expecting. There is no bar car. The attendant can sell you food but he had nearly nothing to sell, after checking with another car we got a microwaved chicken thing that was just about edible and very small. They also act as if giving you towels for the shower is some grand act of generosity. Earplugs were not provided even though they were dearly needed!


Italian frecciarossa business is incredible for the advanced price. Drinks and snacks service, decent paid catering also but that's available to all. If you see it priced close to standard/premium economy just go for it

Thello sleepers are some of the oldest in use but the premium cabins are bigger. They're actually old 4 berth ones that are only used for 3 anymore so there's extra seating and storage where the fourth bed was. Bathroom door didn't stay closed in motion as the lock was damaged - but it's inside your cabin - and the Swiss border guards insisted on checking the cabin in the middle of the night which was annoying. All the bedding, towels etc was in the cabin bagged up from the laundry, no asking required.

Proper bar car and some mediocre looking catering - but plenty of availability. Certainly a better experience than Nightjet.

redcup342

L1011 wrote: »

Back with zero missed connections although one incident could have been problematic

First Class on the Dutch trains isn't worth it. Wider seats, nothing else. They don't cater and the unit we were on had filthy drop toilets like the 1990s here! Would have saved very very little though.

ICE first is nice but a bit overpriced. One attendent goes up and down with free branded Ritter chocolate bars every so often, there's better wifi and power provision, and you can get to-seat catering in proper crockery and glassware. Food is more than acceptable. If there's multiple cars you won't see the attendant much though.

The OBB Nightjet was moved from its scheduled platform to one some considerable distance away in the commuter station outside Munich Hbf with barely any notice - and it remained on the old platform board with a tiny additional number for the new one! Barely made it across in time after realising.

These are some of the newest sleeper cars around but they were a bit more cramped than I was expecting. There is no bar car. The attendant can sell you food but he had nearly nothing to sell, after checking with another car we got a microwaved chicken thing that was just about edible and very small. They also act as if giving you towels for the shower is some grand act of generosity. Earplugs were not provided even though they were dearly needed!


Italian frecciarossa business is incredible for the advanced price. Drinks and snacks service, decent paid catering also but that's available to all. If you see it priced close to standard/premium economy just go for it

Thello sleepers are some of the oldest in use but the premium cabins are bigger. They're actually old 4 berth ones that are only used for 3 anymore so there's extra seating and storage where the fourth bed was. Bathroom door didn't stay closed in motion as the lock was damaged - but it's inside your cabin - and the Swiss border guards insisted on checking the cabin in the middle of the night which was annoying. All the bedding, towels etc was in the cabin bagged up from the laundry, no asking required.

Proper bar car and some mediocre looking catering - but plenty of availability. Certainly a better experience than Nightjet.

First Class on any European Trains without seat reservation generally isn't worth it unless you are going on the Rush hour.

Even the ICE isn't really worth it for first class, second class is absolutely fine with reclining seats and power+wifi.

munchkin_utd

redcup342 wrote: »

First Class on any European Trains without seat reservation generally isn't worth it unless you are going on the Rush hour.

Even the ICE isn't really worth it for first class, second class is absolutely fine with reclining seats and power+wifi.

have to agree that the ICE first class isnt really all that much of an improvement. The in seat service is no better than second class trolly service and it seems that they are really only selling you a bit of extra space and proximity to the restaurant but not killing themselves on comfort.
On a busy Friday or Sunday it might be worth a small premium, but once you have a second class reserved seat you have almost the same comfort for a fraction of the price.

The TGV or Austrian RJ trains though are worth a spin, the Austrians especially as they have at least 2 members of staff from the restaurant constantly running up and down to first class and the trains are relatively new with leather seats and reasonably quick wifi

The TGV has really comfy electrically powered seats, and a reasonable seat service plus theres normally really good deals on 1st class which are often barely any more expensive than second class

kindalen

Depending on premium, first class can be worth it if you need/want lounge access at either/both ends. Between Vienna and Munich I paid a tenner extra and had breakfast in Vienna and lunch and a few beers in Munich lounge whilst waiting for a colleague.