"Shared boundary"

Graces7

Forgive an alien but I need some expert advice if possible please and know there are very knowledgable folk here.

A friend and her husband are moving ti Ireland from the Uk, buying a house. I have been answering queries and helping avoid pitfalls with the process. Have been some serious ones, sorted now

However I advised them when they told me one of the boundaries on their property was to farmland to check who "owned" that boundary.

They finally thrashed out that it is a shared boundary, that they were both responsible for maintaining it.

Having once had cattle destroy a large garden I am concerned as to what exactly this is and how they can safeguard their land? They are elderly and keen gardeners

Twice in my years in Ireland I have had invading critters and the farmer has opined, wrongly I learned later that the fence and the fault was mine. I had thought this was fixed in the deeds?

Any advice gratefully received,

Donald Trump

It's the responsibility of a stock owner to make sure that their stock cannot get out. That's the way it is now. Shared boundary or not. Unless you friends have cattle that break out of their garden and into your mans field, he has more to lose by it not being fixed. That's from a legal point of view

From the point of view of getting along with your neighbours, they might not want to start off with a solicitors letter!




For the sake of an easy life, it might just be worth their while to put up a bit of fence themselves anyway. Plus, they need to remember to be reasonable and that if they move to the countryside, sometimes these things will happen anyways, despite best efforts.

Graces7

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's the responsibility of a stock owner to make sure that their stock cannot get out. That's the way it is now. Shared boundary or not. Unless you friend's have cattle that break out of their garden and into your mans field, he has more to lose by it not being fixed. That's from a legal point of view

From the point of view of getting along with your neighbours, they might not want to start off with a solicitors letter!


For the sake of an easy life, it might just be worth their while to put up a bit of fence themselves anyway. Plus, they need to remember to be reasonable and that if they move to the countryside, sometimes these things will happen anyways, despite best efforts.

Thanks. There had already been serious issues with the map, hence my being more than cautious for them. I learned all this the hard way but had been deep rural for decades so it was easier. I had never heard of a shared boundary before .....

gozunda

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks. There had already been serious issues with the map, hence my being more than cautious for them. I learned all this the hard way but had been deep rural for decades so it was easier. I had never heard of a shared boundary before .....

Shared boundaries are very common here in my experience. Generally both parties assume care of the boundary. If it's a bank or similar - then the usual thing is for each party to wire or fence each side and vegetation or bushes etc can be managed by either party. They generally dont cause any issues imo. The only likley one I can think off would be the right to timber etc which would require some agreement.

patsy_mccabe

Are all boundaries not shared boundaries?

wrangler

Graces7 wrote: »

Forgive an alien but I need some expert advice if possible please and know there are very knowledgable folk here.

A friend and her husband are moving ti Ireland from the Uk, buying a house. I have been answering queries and helping avoid pitfalls with the process. Have been some serious ones, sorted now

However I advised them when they told me one of the boundaries on their property was to farmland to check who "owned" that boundary.

They finally thrashed out that it is a shared boundary, that they were both responsible for maintaining it.

Having once had cattle destroy a large garden I am concerned as to what exactly this is and how they can safeguard their land? They are elderly and keen gardeners

Twice in my years in Ireland I have had invading critters and the farmer has opined, wrongly I learned later that the fence and the fault was mine. I had thought this was fixed in the deeds?

Any advice gratefully received,

If you had property damaged by farmers livestock that farmer is liable,
Majority of farmers have their livestock insured if they do damage, he was a mean ould hoor that didn't look after you.
Farmer has no business nowadys putting stock out on land that's not fenced

maidhc

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are all boundaries not shared boundaries?

Mostly, but most sites that were sold out of farms would have a fencing covenant placing an onus on the owner of the site to maintain a stockproof fence, so if the cattle break into that property then the householder would have no recourse against the farmer, and if the cattle went futher afield, then the hosueholder through which the cattle escaped would also have a liability.

gozunda

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Are all boundaries not shared boundaries?

No in law boundaries can be shared or owned in entirity. In the case of a ditch and bank for example - the law recognises that a ditch would have been dug at the extreme limit of a persons land with the spoil thrown back to form an additional physical boundary. So in many instances ownership extends to the outward lip of a ditch (ie the drain). There are of course some exceptions to this rule afaik.

maidhc

gozunda wrote: »

No in law boundaries can be shared or owned in entirity. In the case of a ditch and bank for example - the law recognises that a ditch would have been dug at the extreme limit of a persons land with the spoil thrown back to form an additional physical boundary. So in many instances ownership extends to the outward lip of a ditch (ie the drain). There are of course some exceptions to this rule afaik.

While of course a boundary/ditch can be wholly within one persons property (i.e. half a double ditch would be a common example, they are generally shared or party "structures". The definition is here, for anyone interested:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/43/enacted/en/html#sec43

Donald Trump

maidhc wrote: »

While of course a boundary/ditch can be wholly within one persons property (i.e. half a double ditch would be a common example, they are generally shared or party "structures". The definition is here, for anyone interested:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/43/enacted/en/html#sec43

The old thing (I think) was that the ditch was dug on one side and that was the person who owned the ditch (presumably the logic was that they dug the ditch in their own property same as you build a wall just inside your own boundary. The bank was on that side and the person on the other side owned the hedge but not the ditch.

I'm not talking legal here - just the practice.

gozunda

maidhc wrote: »

While of course a boundary/ditch can be wholly within one persons property (i.e. half a double ditch would be a common example, they are generally shared or party "structures". The definition is here, for anyone interested:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/43/enacted/en/html#sec43

Other considerations ie



From:
http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/boundaries-i/

maidhc

gozunda wrote: »

Other considerations

From:
http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/boundaries-i/

I do own my own solicitors firm, but thanks anyway.

Dr Turk Turkelton

maidhc wrote: »

I do own my own solicitors firm, but thanks anyway.

Well now at least you know where to come next time you need some expert advice or are hiring.

Graces7

wrangler wrote: »

If you had property damaged by farmers livestock that farmer is liable,
Majority of farmers have their livestock insured if they do damage, he was a that didn't look after you.
Farmer has no business nowadys putting stock out on land that's not fenced

When the Dept pf Ag had to send a vet out when he was seen seriously neglecting his sheep in that field, they made him fence the land...

The cottage/land I had was well fenced on 3 sides by the previous owner, a meticulous Dutchman, but this man had refused.

he is dead and gone now. But your words are perfect.

Graces7

Thanks everyone for the explanations and help.

Am writing to the friends ... Just want them to have a happy landing here..

Bass Reeves

maidhc wrote: »

Mostly, but most sites that were sold out of farms would have a fencing covenant placing an onus on the owner of the site to maintain a stockproof fence, so if the cattle break into that property then the householder would have no recourse against the farmer, and if the cattle went futher afield, then the hosueholder through which the cattle escaped would also have a liability.

There is one issue with this. If cattle escape through a site boundary and do damage. The person will still sue the farmer and he has to recover his costs from the site owner so in reality site convents are not of much practical value only in the case where the damage is wholly on the covenanted site

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note:Ok, folks, as the question seems answered as well as we can do on this forum, I'll close this thread down.

Thanks to all for your input here, I think the OPs question has been suitably dealt with.

Buford T. Justice