How bad are hurling Referees?

Infernal Racket

Having watched the hurling today as I have done for many years now I can only conclude that the standard of referring seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on. There is no consistency whatsoever among them and an awful lot of them seem to think that the game is all about them.

I train u10s and u12s and spend a lot of time teaching them the rules and how to respect the ref. Even at that level some referees will enforce the rules and some will completely disregard them. Kids end up mostly confused as the ref is allowing the other team to do things that we tell our kids are not allowed in the playing field.

Maybe I'm looking at previous decades of refs with rose tinted glasses but I don't think I am. What does everyone else think and how can the current standard be improved because honestly I don't think it can get much worse.

crossman47

I think you have a good point. The mantra of "let the game flow" has become a joke so now anything goes. Brian Cody has a lot to answer for. He encouraged defensive swarming and the use of the spare hand in the tackle and berated refs who tried to apply the rules.

The other issue now is the illegal handpass. That is hardly ever penalised.

The simple answer to your question is tell refs apply the rules of hurling. Use of the spare hand, charging with the ball and throwing the ball are not allowed.

citykat

The entertainment value of hurling has never been as high as it is now. Intensity levels increase year on year. Gaelic is a boring spectacle in comparison. Yet some want to piss and moan about refs. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. The last thing I want to see is a freefest. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Odyssey 2005

Stevie wonder would have done a better job than the pair of idiots in Dublin or Limerick today.
Lads spend months/years training, only to be reffed3by mr.magoo. Shocking. !!

Mahony0509

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Stevie wonder would have done a better job than the pair of idiots in Dublin or Limerick today.
Lads spend months/years training, only to be reffed3by mr.magoo. Shocking. !!

Both of the referees today performed terribly in the matches they refereed in the munster championship this year. Fergal Horgan should have reffed the Leinster final, while someone like Alan Kelly or James Owens should have been in Limerick.

Deskjockey

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Stevie wonder would have done a better job than the pair of idiots in Dublin or Limerick today.
Lads spend months/years training, only to be reffed3by mr.magoo. Shocking. !!

Referees have an impossible job. The pace of the game has increased massively and the distance the ball travels yet the ref is still expected to keep up with the play all the time. Newsflash - they are going to make mistakes- they always have.

The ref in Croker today (didnt see the other match) had a brainfart regarding stopping play to bring on a sub but otherwise - from neutral point of view - seemed to do ok... calling him an idiot , whoever he was, is pure ignorance

No wonder the GAA is struggling to keep refs when people are so negative and don't accept human error is part of the package. A player makes a mistake, no issue, next ball he can make it up. A ref makes a mistake , all hell breaks loose

Water John

Refereeing hurling at this level is difficult. The goalie has the option of going short or landing it into the full forward line. What position does he take up?
Thought the Munster Final was reffed ok, except for the one near the end where the Limerick player had to go off after what was in effect assault and the Tipp player wasn't even booked. It should have been straight red for dangerous play, game over or not.

Mahony0509

People saying refereeing is 'hard' are paying little attention to the drop in level from last year to this year. It's like night and day. They've been awful all-round this year.

Blueshoe

The ball moves so fast and the ref can only cover so much ground. How would the AFL style of a ref in either half work?

Bonniedog

Water John wrote: »

Refereeing hurling at this level is difficult. The goalie has the option of going short or landing it into the full forward line. What position does he take up?
Thought the Munster Final was reffed ok, except for the one near the end where the Limerick player had to go off after what was in effect assault and the Tipp player wasn't even booked. It should have been straight red for dangerous play, game over or not.

That was Ronan Maher. In fairness he was one of few Tipp players who played out of their skin but that smacked of deliberately trying to do someone when the game was already gone.

Be interesting to see if it gets mentioned in despatches as he would be huge loss if he's suspended, Definitely should have walked. Whatever about hitting a lad a belt when the game is there, that sort of thing smacks of a nasty streak.

Legalfarmer89

Think refs need more help from sideline officials/umpires, who only seem to be called when something controversial happens or there is a dispute as to a score.

The game of hurling is now so fast that the full use of all the officials is needed.

Some of them are no more than spare tools!

Odyssey 2005

Water John wrote: »

Refereeing hurling at this level is difficult. The goalie has the option of going short or landing it into the full forward line. What position does he take up?
Thought the Munster Final was reffed ok, except for the one near the end where the Limerick player had to go off after what was in effect assault and the Tipp player wasn't even booked. It should have been straight red for dangerous play, game over or not.

That incident happened 10 yards of less in front of the ref,he was looking directly at the incident. It was a blatant red card,yet limerick didnt even get a free !!!. A shocking decision

Infernal Racket

Water John wrote: »

Refereeing hurling at this level is difficult. The goalie has the option of going short or landing it into the full forward line. What position does he take up?
Thought the Munster Final was reffed ok, except for the one near the end where the Limerick player had to go off after what was in effect assault and the Tipp player wasn't even booked. It should have been straight red for dangerous play, game over or not.

The ref was standing looking at this incident as it happened and did nothing. Ridiculous stuff, yet people use the argument that the game has gone so fast that the refs miss the odd thing. He was standing right there looking at it.

Infernal Racket

citykat wrote: »

The entertainment value of hurling has never been as high as it is now. Intensity levels increase year on year. Gaelic is a boring spectacle in comparison. Yet some want to piss and moan about refs. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. The last thing I want to see is a freefest. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I agree with most of what you said but things are definitely broken. There is nothing better than a free flowing game of hurling, but if this is the view that a ref is aiming for then it has to be free flowing for both sides. The ref in the Munster final had an absolute howler.

Infernal Racket

Blueshoe wrote: »

The ball moves so fast and the ref can only cover so much ground. How would the AFL style of a ref in either half work?

I brought this suggestion up at a county board meeting many years back and I was laughed at. It makes sense but the hierarchy are not for changing.

Tomtom364

Bonniedog wrote: »

That was Ronan Maher. In fairness he was one of few Tipp players who played out of their skin but that smacked of deliberately trying to do someone when the game was already gone.

Be interesting to see if it gets mentioned in despatches as he would be huge loss if he's suspended, Definitely should have walked. Whatever about hitting a lad a belt when the game is there, that sort of thing smacks of a nasty streak.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/427059/tipperary-s-ronan-maher-will-prepare-for-garda-college-by-playing-in-munster-final-against-limerick.html

Tipperary's Ronan Maher will prepare for Garda College by playing in Munster Final against Limerick

Bonniedog

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

That incident happened 10 yards of less in front of the ref,he was looking directly at the incident. It was a blatant red card,yet limerick didnt even get a free !!!. A shocking decision

Only mentioned it out of interest as to whether TSG had raised it. Seems they did not, which is on balance a good thing as their panel should not be a star chamber. If ref missed it then its his bad.

Contrasts with the hounding of Seán Cavanagh, Diarmuid Connolly and others by the football panel which had direct impact on their treatment by the committee men. So again, a good ting that hurling is not as afflicted.

Bonniedog

Tomtom364 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/427059/tipperary-s-ronan-maher-will-prepare-for-garda-college-by-playing-in-munster-final-against-limerick.html

Part of the training, maybe

Rasputin11

The problem with hurling refereeing is that is seems that it's reffed for the benefit of the crowd rather than the players. The man in possession is being mauled, all teams are guilty of this, yet the ref is lambasted for not "letting it flow". The officials are on a hiding to nothing because they're expected to deliver a great spectacle for the public and also not punish the multiple fouls that occur in almost every contact situation. If there was a proper campaign to stamp out the pulling and dragging with the spare arm, it would aid the game greatly.

Blinky Plebum

citykat wrote: »

The entertainment value of hurling has never been as high as it is now. Intensity levels increase year on year. Gaelic is a boring spectacle in comparison. Yet some want to piss and moan about refs. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. The last thing I want to see is a freefest. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I disagree, the sport has turned into a long range scoring fest with much less hurling bieng played in the game than it used to be, players spend a large part of the game looking at the ball soaring over their heads.No ground hurling any more, very little first time pulling on the ball in the air and loads of rucks forming becuase of the desperation to get the ball into hand rather than hitting it on the ground if it didn't get into hand first time round.

The sport was much more entertaining in the early to mid 2000's but since then the distance the ball can be hit has got too out of control and has had a negative affect on the game in my opinion.

fergus1001

they're terrible Joe

kevin7

Its a tough job, refs cant be expected to see everything, its just impossible. I'm pretty sure when Peter Casey got that hit from Ronan Maher the ref was nearby alright but had just turned the other way to follow the action. Basically, he didn't see that one, so he can't really give a free or a card. That's where his linesmen let him down. I can't explain how neither of them saw the incident!

As for umpires, I don't think they are qualified referees, so its not fair to expect them to make calls of judgement - they don't necessarily know the rules and have no training, so they can report cold facts to the ref and let him decide what to do. I'm thinking here of things like judging if a hit was incidental or deliberate, was it aggressive or not. These are things the umpires may have an opinion on, but aren't qualified to tell the referee he needs to give a penalty or issue a red card.

But the main point here is that hurling is such a fast game that its very hard to see everything that goes on. The linesmen currently act as two extra pairs of eyes, and probably should be used more than they currently are. Whats the harm using real referees as umpires too? There are only so many top-level referees in the country, so you cant have 7 of them at every big game, but there are plenty from the next level that could step up.

Strumms

Blueshoe wrote: »

The ball moves so fast and the ref can only cover so much ground. How would the AFL style of a ref in either half work?

It would benefit the game hugely. Far less physical demand on the one referee over the 70. The game has got much faster, players fitness levels are at an all time high so to monitor 30 players with the speed the game is played at over a huge expanse of pitch as it is must be a massive undertaking. Two referees just makes sense.

I says

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Both of the referees today performed terribly in the matches they refereed in the munster championship this year. Fergal Horgan should have reffed the Leinster final, while someone like Alan Kelly or James Owens should have been in Limerick.

James Owens,are ya fcuking joking, been one of the worst ref for years

Infernal Racket

kevin7 wrote: »

Its a tough job, refs cant be expected to see everything, its just impossible. I'm pretty sure when Peter Casey got that hit from Ronan Maher the ref was nearby alright but had just turned the other way to follow the action. Basically, he didn't see that one, so he can't really give a free or a card. That's where his linesmen let him down. I can't explain how neither of them saw the incident!

As for umpires, I don't think they are qualified referees, so its not fair to expect them to make calls of judgement - they don't necessarily know the rules and have no training, so they can report cold facts to the ref and let him decide what to do. I'm thinking here of things like judging if a hit was incidental or deliberate, was it aggressive or not. These are things the umpires may have an opinion on, but aren't qualified to tell the referee he needs to give a penalty or issue a red card.

But the main point here is that hurling is such a fast game that its very hard to see everything that goes on. The linesmen currently act as two extra pairs of eyes, and probably should be used more than they currently are. Whats the harm using real referees as umpires too? There are only so many top-level referees in the country, so you cant have 7 of them at every big game, but there are plenty from the next level that could step up.

If he didn't see that then he shouldn't be reffing

Edgware

One referee, two linesmen, four umpires ( three if you dont count the gob****e in Croke Park yesterday)
How many more officials do people want?
Although I would take the time keeping responsibility away from referees

threeball

Blueshoe wrote: »

The ball moves so fast and the ref can only cover so much ground. How would the AFL style of a ref in either half work?

That works in AFL as there's basically no rules. The problem with a ref in each half is you'll end up with two interpretations within the same game. Players won't know what's up or down.

Best solution is to allow the linesmen and umpires have a proper say in procedures. The ref follows the ball the other lads keep an eye for off it. The people are there already they're just not being used. It's like a plumber having 6 employees who all stand around and hand him spanners while he does all the work. It's mad stuff.

threeball

Gerry G wrote: »

If he didn't see that then he shouldn't be reffing

Easy to say but I've got stuck reffing go games and it can be hard to see all that's going on never mind all the stuff at inter county and at the pace it's played.

Blueshoe

threeball wrote: »

That works in AFL as there's basically no rules. The problem with a ref in each half is you'll end up with two interpretations within the same game. Players won't know what's up or down.

Best solution is to allow the linesmen and umpires have a proper say in procedures. The ref follows the ball the other lads keep an eye for off it. The people are there already they're just not being used. It's like a plumber having 6 employees who all stand around and hand him spanners while he does all the work. It's mad stuff.

Linesmen aren't referees. By the time it takes him to spot the foul and then contact the ref and for the ref to blow the whistle even though he hasn't seen the foul the game will have moved on and will become too stop start.

If there are two referees one officiates one half of the pitch and the other the remaining half. They don't leave their half
The rules don't change you just have refereeing from close to where ever the ball is. The game will be the same.

You are talking about slowing down the game and adding some officials who can stop the match.

2 referees won't slow the game down. There will just be a ref closer to the ball. Always up with the action.


There are plenty of rules in AFL and the ball moves quickly and the pitch is wider. Two referees make sense.

With the speed of the ball and the level of athlete that modern players are how is a 40 something year old ref supposed to keep up? There are bound to be poor decisions

Blueshoe

Edgware wrote: »

One referee, two linesmen, four umpires ( three if you dont count the gob****e in Croke Park yesterday)
How many more officials do people want?
Although I would take the time keeping responsibility away from referees

You seem to be confused into thinking both refs would be running around as they see fit. One half each. Just to keep pace with the modern game. No other changes.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Gerry G wrote: »

If he didn't see that then he shouldn't be reffing

Maher's challenge is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. From Maher's perspective it was a nice hit, he got the ball first and got to follow through on Casey being somewhat protected from severe sanction by the fact he dispossessed him first. I can see why the ref let it go since he followed the flight of the ball. Maher knew what he was doing alright, but you'd swear he nearly murdered him the way some are going on. It's gas Limerick posters calling it assault etc., their players have been giving as good as anyone for the last few years and got away with worse too

threeball

Blueshoe wrote: »

Linesmen aren't referees. By the time it takes him to spot the foul and then contact the ref and for the ref to blow the whistle even though he hasn't seen the foul the game will have moved on and will become too stop start.

If there are two referees one officiates one half of the pitch and the other the remaining half. They don't leave their half
The rules don't change you just have refereeing from close to where ever the ball is. The game will be the same.

You are talking about slowing down the game and adding some officials who can stop the match.

2 referees won't slow the game down. There will just be a ref closer to the ball. Always up with the action.


There are plenty of rules in AFL and the ball moves quickly and the pitch is wider. Two referees make sense.

With the speed of the ball and the level of athlete that modern players are how is a 40 something year old ref supposed to keep up? There are bound to be poor decisions

Two different opinions in a game like that doesn't work. You even see it in the international rules. It doesn't work there either.

One lad has a habit of pulling for one thing, the other lad pulling for another. Players always cry out for consistency. You wouldn't even get that every time the ball crossed the half way line if there were two refs.

Blueshoe

threeball wrote: »

Two different opinions in a game like that doesn't work. You even see it in the international rules. It doesn't work there either.

One lad has a habit of pulling for one thing, the other lad pulling for another. Players always cry out for consistency. You wouldn't even get that every time the ball crossed the half way line if there were two refs.

That's a good point. Both referees would have to be very similar in what they deem a foul.

What is the problem with the reffing lately.
Is it that the referee is missing fouls because hes too far away or is it that the wrong calls are being made when the ref is close to the ball

threeball

Blueshoe wrote: »

That's a good point. Both referees would have to be very similar in what they deem a foul.

What is the problem with the reffing lately.
Is it that the referee is missing fouls because hes too far away or is it that the wrong calls are being made when the ref is close to the ball

It's extremely fast and very hard to be in the right position all the time plus they're under pressure to let the game flow. If every foul in hurling was pulled there wouldn't be 20 seconds continuous play. Then we'd see real complaining. Lads getting hurls clattered off their chest and arms when solo running. Blatant fouls but let go.

The only one that really pi$$es me off if blatant over carrying

cson

Eoin McDevitt (of Second Captains) tweeted it that hurling needs a professional foul red card. That was scandalous in the first half in Croker yesterday.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

cson wrote: »

Eoin McDevitt (of Second Captains) tweeted it that hurling needs a professional foul red card. That was scandalous in the first half in Croker yesterday.

Which incident are you referring to?

Blueshoe

threeball wrote: »

It's extremely fast and very hard to be in the right position all the time plus they're under pressure to let the game flow. If every foul in hurling was pulled there wouldn't be 20 seconds continuous play. Then we'd see real complaining. Lads getting hurls clattered off their chest and arms when solo running. Blatant fouls but let go.

The only one that really pi$$es me off if blatant over carrying

Agreed.
Is it fair say that referees can't be on top of everything on the pitch and are under pressure to keep a game flowing.

Ie they can't keep everyone happy

threeball

Blueshoe wrote: »

Agreed.
Is it fair say that referees can't be on top of everything on the pitch and are under pressure to keep a game flowing.

Ie they can't keep everyone happy

Yes I'd say that's the case. One lad watching wants to let a game flow and let players bate the sh1te out of each other then goes mental when he sees a dodgy Handpass. Another the exact opposite. I think in general it's not as bad as we like to think but there's opinions from everywhere these days and it heightens the sense of the ref making a bollox of it. Stuff we didn't even see ourselves until some lad points it out on boards or Twitter.

A small bit of help from the other officials would go along way. Take away time keeping too.