My partner can't be romantic and will probably never propose

LegacyUser

I love him. He's a great person and although the above is starting to really get to me, it isn't a deal breaker. I guess I am just looking for some suggestions in effective communication.

He loves me and tells me everyday. We went through months of him dealing with massive work and family stress where we sat on opposite sofas and barely communicated, every night. In between we would have random discussions about when we buy a house and when we should have kids but his actions, well he just has no need to discuss his emotions and no inclination to ask about mine.

He's the most pragmatic person I have ever met, and I'll be honest, it's one of the things I love about him, but it's driving me a bit crazy.

After the months and months where I felt totally shut out, I randomly out-of-nowhere broke down and told him I was starting to feel like I was in the way...he forgot little things I told him, like what time my course was at or he'd ask me if I was calling over to my dad who was on holiday for 6 weeks.....in spite of the things he said about us being forever and always - his actions were painting a different picture.

He was completely shocked and 100% saw where I was coming from, what shocked me the most was that he was stressed with work as he was trying to make a life for us, trying to set us up and move on to the next phase of our lives. He actually said I am the only constant in his life and without me he would be a total mess and would not have the confidence to believe in himself as much as he does and also feel like he's capable of doing well in his industry.

The thing is, he is so incredibly practical and risk averse. He has a big plan, we have children (we're nearing 40) then we buy a house and he knows I would like to get married but he's like "well do you have a spare 30k lying around". He just doesn't see the point in it, and I genuinely believe that unless 30k falls out of the sky, he won't even consider it.

But I have no doubts whatsoever that he is commited to me and he knows I am commited to him, but it's very hard (and unromantic) to argue with his logic, which is really sensible, I know. I know he wants it "one day" but knowing him,that could be a decade away...

It's just something I always took for granted when I met "the one" and now he's here, and I don't want to lose him....I don't know how to navigate it. I don't want to change him, I just want him to be as interested in making me happy as I am in making him happy

ManOfMystery

Getting married doesn't have to mean £30k, especially if you're trying to save that money for a home and kids. You could always have a low-cost civil ceremony or similar and then down the line have a celebration when its affordable. I know it's not ideal but ultimately, the commitment is the important thing and not the day out.

Infernal Racket

Why is marriage so important to you?

eviltwin

If you are nearly 40 and yet to have children that has to be your priority. A wedding can happen anytime, your opportunity to have kids can't. That needs to be your focus.

antix80

It's a nice narrative but sounds like work is more important a priority to him than your relationship. He works at one and puts the other on the back burner.

Maybe you should propose to him. Tell him it will be the 2 of you, and a witness each. And when he saves that €30k he can have a party if it's so important to him.
Get to work on making those babies asap. You'll be infertile an awful lot sooner than he will be....

GingerLily

Do you want to get married or do you want a wedding? Are you waiting to get married to have kids?

Also, you know you can propose? Absolutely no reason to wait for him to make that decision for both of you, you can ask him, you don't have to make it public right away either.

Addle

He reads pretty romantic if he tells you he loves you every day.

LegacyUser

I mean a wedding, whatever, but it's more for me, the idea of being in a family unit that is official. Or at least the promise of one. Even if we were engaged before we had kids...that would actually be fine. But I guess, due to his nature of cuting himself off for months at a time without even noticing how that might impact me, I guess I get insecure and I go in to my head and worry about why he's doing that. He tends to get overwhelmed and I guess if I am honest I am worried having children might overwhelm him, even though he probably pushes for that more than anything. We've set up our lives in such a way that it all suits him, we live in his house, near his family and his job.

I now live miles away from my parents and job and both my properties are rented out. If he became disillusioned after we had children and stressed out (he's a stress-head) he could basically kick me out and I would really struggle. I don't think any of that would happen but I feel like I am taking all of the risks in our relationship I guess and one gesture of commitment from his side would mean a lot to me.

I think we would both be open to eloping but it would break our parents hearts, his sister got married last year and it was nearly 120k, which was ridiculous and we have always agreed we'd be doing it on a much tighter budget, but our parents are older and would be utterly distraught (especially mine) if there wasn't a party.

My dad in particular has had a rough year with his health and is deteriorating, I often get upset at the prospect that he might not be well enough to walk me down the aisle, he probably wouldn't get through a speech now but, ya know. I just feel like it's also an important part of our relationship

It sounds like you have a dependable, faithful dog but you want it to learn how to purr like a cat.

He’s a stressed out pragmatic guy, trying to get things squared away so you can, as you say it, move on to the next phase of your life. In the meantime, life is passing BOTH of you by. Pushing 40, you’d better get a move on if you’re serious about having children together.

He won’t become romantic all of a sudden, certainly not while he’s feeling pressure. It doesn’t work that way. And wherever the €30k talk is coming from for a wedding, that isn’t going to go away either and won’t help.

Sit down together, talk about what you want from life and pick the easiest and quickest way to get those things in a basic form. Buy a house, don’t build etc. Move in 5-10 years etc. Get married in a small civil ceremony, not a €30k show for other people. Don’t wait around trying to conceive naturally, time isn’t on your side (been there, done that) so go get yourselves in front of the right help now if you’re serious.

But stop wishing your dog was a cat.

Just love him and let him know you don’t actually need more than just to be together. You need to be sure you’re okay with that. If nothing else pans out, that should be plenty for both of you. If it’s not enough, don’t get married, take a mortgage or have kids together. You shouldn’t build on a crappy foundation.

PHG

Hi OP,

Was in a similar situation to yours (except I am the guy) but 31 atm. There is no doubt he loves you and blinded by work/stress and the plan, as said I know what it is like. However, sitting on separate ends of the sofa for weeks does not seem like a good omen for the future. As bad as mine got we always cuddled on the sofa each evening and at night bar a handful of nights. Is that healthy for kids to see? I conceded a bit on the kids thing as wanted to wait until mid thirties and said 32/33 instead but we parted ways before we got there. I assume between the both of you (if he is working this much and rental income) you bring in over 100k comfortably and in a good space e.g. have an emergency fund/savings? Do you both ever go on holidays, trips away each year or just have any fun as you will both be dead long enough!!

One thing that caught me in your posts is that you rent out both your properties and live in his (is it rented???). I'm being harsh and maybe unrealistic here, but if you own 3 properties between you, why not sell two of them, use it as a deposit on (pay for?) the new house and pay for the wedding? Obviously dependent on where you are at with the mortgages? I know financial questions are private so don't want to intrude too much there.

Look at both your ages he is being unfair and I struggle to believe you when you say this is not a dealbreaker, which is ok if it is. The baby thing needs moving pronto too!!

With the way you are both living, it kind of sounds like you have both settled too but hope I am wrong in saying that.

Best of Luck

PHG

Hal3000

Buy your house first and have kids after if you can. Not easy to get a mortgage with kids as they are counted as an expense per month.

Dial Hard

JayZeus wrote:

It sounds like you have a dependable, faithful dog but you want it to learn how to purr like a cat.

It actually sounds the complete other way around to me. He has everything on his terms. They're in his house, near his family, close to his job, doing everything according to his preferred timeline. Literally nothing the OP has posted supports your position and I actually genuinely have no idea how you came to it.

zapper55

Him telling you he loves you is words. Nice but not backed by any sort of action. I'd be hugely hugely reluctant to marry someone that barely speaks to you for months on end and doesnt see much wrong with it until its pointed out. And someone that gets very overwhelmed without any real stresses of kids etc.

I'd be concentrating less on marriage and more on what type of life you'd have with this guy.

AulWan

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Getting married doesn't have to mean £30k, especially if you're trying to save that money for a home and kids. You could always have a low-cost civil ceremony or similar and then down the line have a celebration when its affordable. I know it's not ideal but ultimately, the commitment is the important thing and not the day out.

100% this.

A work colleague of mine booked a couple of days off annual leave, then came in the following Monday as normal. When asked what she'd got up to on her fw days off "oh we popped into the Registrar and got married, then spent the weekend in a nice hotel".

Just him, her and two witnesses. That's the way to do it. Y

You could do something similar, with parents as witnesses. You don't have to have a big party because they expect one.

antix80

I've seen a lot of hard-working men and they work to provide for their wives.. the wives often guide the decisions. Stretch goals a little. They don't want a semi-D. They plan kids around the best time for maternity leave. They plan weddings and push for the bells and whistles and seat covers. Op, don't you want these things? They'll pass you by.

I wouldn't worry too much about his forgetfulness. A lot of men are like this. The main problem is he's so busy with his 9 to 5, as you said months go by at a time. You'll run out of time. He'll be fine either way.

rainbowtrout

goinganonthistime wrote: »

He was completely shocked and 100% saw where I was coming from, what shocked me the most was that he was stressed with work as he was trying to make a life for us, trying to set us up and move on to the next phase of our lives.

So you have a breakdown about your relationship because you're getting nothing from him and that is completely turned around to him making a life for you and he's working hard. So nothing changes and nothing is resolved.

goinganonthistime wrote: »

The thing is, he is so incredibly practical and risk averse. He has a big plan, we have children (we're nearing 40) then we buy a house and he knows I would like to get married but he's like "well do you have a spare 30k lying around". He just doesn't see the point in it, and I genuinely believe that unless 30k falls out of the sky, he won't even consider it.

Shouldn't that be 'we' have a big plan? He has a plan which he will enact when suits him, so effectively you are a bystander in your own relationship. Shouldn't major decisions such as marriage, children, house purchases be a joint decision and planned by both of you? Why don't you have any input?

Weddings are not all or nothing. You don't have to have 30k to get married. You need to assess what is important? Marriage and everything that goes with it, or the big party? It's a very convenient get out clause to say 'have you got 30k'. If you don't have 30k between you - and you want the big day out - as well as the marriage, then when do you both plan to sit down and figure out a savings plan to pay for it? No plan effectively means no marriage.


He sounds completely non committal to be honest. You live with him when you own two properties, all on his terms, no commitment to marriage, no input from you for future plans, and as you both approach 40 he can't be unaware that time is running out to have children.

If you honestly believe that he's committed to you why don't you suggest a registry office wedding with a few immediately friends and family (i.e. less than 20). You'll soon know if he's serious.

And your parents wanting 'a big party' should have no bearing on your plans. If the choice was 'small party' or 'no party' you can be damn sure they'd go with the small one.

alternatively

we dont see much about what the OP is providing

i dont think thats a fair reading of things, buts its as fair as the character assassination some people are performing on him for working hard to achieve for the shared life together

Thelonious Monk

Can never understand why women want to get married when the man couldn't be arsed, which is pretty much every bloke I know but they do it for her in the end

wiggle16

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can never understand why women want to get married when the man couldn't be arsed, which is pretty much every bloke I know but they do it for her in the end

Mod:

Please have advice for the OP when you post rather than just a general opinion, or don't post.

Thanks

Blaizes

He’s dragging his behind and you’re letting him call all the shots. If he wants to really marry you you can have a small wedding, throw a party afterwards. You want children, time is of the essence here does he not get this? He needs a big push from you, if he’s not biting I’d call it quits. He sounds like a perfectionist who thinks he has all the time in the world but neither of you do. You need to take back some control in this relationship instead of being dragged along. Sorry to be blunt but it’s your life too.Hope it works out and that the courage to move forward can be found.Fingers crosses for you and a good future.

Ursus Horribilis

Is this relationship really as good as you think it is? You remind me of a couple of women I know who've wrecked their heads trying to be in relationships with men who are hard work. Sometimes I wonder do they like a project? Or are they so caught up in trying to keep their relationships going, they've lost sight of what it is they're looking for.

I think you are being majorly distracted by him telling you he loves you ever day. Those are only words. I'm also concerned at how "pragmatic" he is. He sounds so pragmatic, he's either on some sort of spectrum or he's not that pushed really. Either way, you have a problem. I'm not surprised that you eventually broke down over the way he had been treating you. You've probably been carrying an awful lot more of the burden than you think you have been.

You are right in that you can't change him but I think you should be thinking very long and hard about what it is you want. What does this guy bring to the table? It's clearly not emotional support. You're with him long enough to have been given a warning about what life with him will be like. I don't think this is really about marriage is it? (I'm sure you could ask and tied the knot cheaply if you wanted). You don't feel loved and secure with Mr Pragmatic, do you?

ginandtonicsky

Hi OP. I've condensed your issues here and think you should sit your partner down and put them to him, matter of fact, so you can work through these issues together.

I would suggest couples therapy tbh. But you need to at least start with a genuine, frank conversation about why you're not happy at the moment.

- Having a family unit is important to me. That's why getting engaged matters to me and that I want to happen sooner rather than later
- I don't want a 30k party. I want a day to share with our families. Dad is not in great health and I worry about what it could mean to leave this too long
- I worry about you keeping me at an emotional distance
- Everything is on your terms. We live in your house, near your family and job, our relationship is proceeding on your timeline

IME, you can't have everything in a relationship. Particularly when you're that bit older, the mortgage-married-babies simply isn't going to happen in the perfect timeline you always thought it would. And that's ok. But you do need to fully understand that and you do need to prioritise.

What's most important? Given your age, I would say getting cracking on the babies front or at least agreeing on a timeline in the very near future should be priority Number One.

Then, an agreement on getting engaged. My Dad didn't propose to my mother, they simply agreed they wanted to get married, and so mutually agreed they were engaged. They're married 40 years now. Romance is lovely and all, but it's not even nearly the most important thing in a relationship and the reality is you're not coupled up with a romantic man. As much as you'd like that to change, it most likely will not so accept that and have the conversation.

qwerty13

Hhmm, I think there’s a pair of you in this. It reads as though you want things in the perfect traditional order, and he is being clinical about what can be afforded, and when. And neither of you are discussing what your priorities are.

I don’t understand the 30k wedding comment from him though. Does he feel that you really want the full on bells & whistles Irish wedding? There’s so many other ways to get married. And if it’s important to you re your parents wanting a celebration, well you can do that! Just an intimate family meal, and then maybe a party in a function room.

Tbh it sounds like both of you have incredibly fixed ideas about what should happen and when, and neither of you are compromising, or even discussing it. And that’s a bit concerning if you are to make your life together. Not just about the wedding, which is minor in the scheme of things about life in general.

tara73

I have a bad feeling reading your posts about him and his behaviour. I think you need to make sure he really wants kids and marriage. If you read in this forum a bit longer or are in general a bit longer on this planet:) it's not uncommon there are people out there who string their longterm partner along with words, saying what they want to hear but actually for whatever (strange) reasons are not willing or not able to ever pursue this. and for me, your partner showing exactly this signs: his excuse he can't get married because he can't spend 30k on it is ridiculous as others already pointed out.

Regarding kids: do you want them? if yes, did you ever have a serious talk about it with him? if not, I would rather start discussing it today than tomorrow. And with discussing I mean a serious talk. Sit him down and explain to him that your time is running out if he doesn't know about it or, better to say, doesn't want to know about it . Tell him when you want to start trying for it. You know you don't need to be married to have a baby these days.

I would say you can gauge from his reaction if he's serious about having kids too. If he finds excuses for delaying this also, I think you have your answer.

SirChenjin

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Is this relationship really as good as you think it is?

I think you are being majorly distracted by him telling you he loves you ever day. Those are only words. I'm also concerned at how "pragmatic" he is. He sounds so pragmatic, he's either on some sort of spectrum or he's not that pushed really. Either way, you have a problem. I'm not surprised that you eventually broke down over the way he had been treating you. You've probably been carrying an awful lot more of the burden than you think you have been.

You are right in that you can't change him but I think you should be thinking very long and hard about what it is you want. What does this guy bring to the table? It's clearly not emotional support. You're with him long enough to have been given a warning about what life with him will be like. I don't think this is really about marriage is it? (I'm sure you could ask and tied the knot cheaply if you wanted). You don't feel loved and secure with Mr Pragmatic, do you?

100% agree with this. Words come easy but his words and his actions are contradictory, IMO.

OP I am not sure this is about marriage and kids really. I don't think the two of you are on the same page at all, maybe not even the same book, when it comes to life plans and goals.

And if you do have children, will it be just more of the same with him 'trying to make a life for you' while you raise the children and continue to fight a battle with his 'pragmatism' and emotional unavailability to you and to the children?

Blaizes

SirChenjin wrote: »

100% agree with this. Words come easy but his words and his actions are contradictory, IMO.

OP I am not sure this is about marriage and kids really. I don't think the two of you are on the same page at all, maybe not even the same book, when it comes to life plans and goals.

And if you do have children, will it be just more of the same with him 'trying to make a life for you' while you raise the children and continue to fight a battle with his 'pragmatism' and emotional unavailability to you and to the children?

The op does say he has told her something like he’d be lost without her and she helps him cope with his challenging job also he has said he wants children. Maybe this gives hope that he just needs a mighty push forward to get to the next level. Men can be lazy at times regarding relationships but she needs to put it straight to him and get some real answers that enable her to reach her decision. And if he can’t make the commitment she’ll have her answer. No relationship is perfect but takes work, effort and commitment from both parties. At least he doesn’t sound like a womanizer and there is no one else in the picture. Not saying she should settle for less than she deserves either.I know couples who have broken up because the guy was commitment phobic, the woman walked away next thing the guy was begging her back and she returned with the commitment from him and then the marriage, babies etc. I’m married also but never broke up in the middle like these couples but I do know a marriage takes work and a willingness to compromise or meet the other person half way. My great aunt jokes that it takes ten years to train a man in!

On the point you made about being emotionally unavailable around the op and children, I know a woman in a long term relationship nearly twenty years with three kids and she told me herself that she doesn’t have kids to the house because her partner doesn’t like other people’s kids coming over for play dates etc. I find this a bit crazy, the guy is very house proud but when you have kids you have to let up a bit.

The Specialist

Male here and a lot of what you say about your partner ticks boxes with me. To be honest everybody is their own person, people have different things that take priority in their thoughts and minds. My wife and myself have had arguements that revolve around this exact topic - I don’t remember this or I missed that she said that, I act cold and uninterested.

In my case I’m the sole income earner in the house and my job is extremely stressful on top of worrying about everything else like rent and bills to be paid on top of that. I love the bones of her but she doesn’t understand that if stressed up to 90 about something going on in work, I really don’t give a **** about who said what or what time this thing is at because it’s simply irrelevant at that point in time.

Not sure what point I’m trying to get across but maybe don’t go too hard on him over what you perceive to be indifference from his side - it could be anything. I love my wife and we get on brilliantly but there is only so much brain bandwidth to keep track and on top of things without being expected to recorded minor events too

Blaizes

The Specialist wrote: »

Male here and a lot of what you say about your partner ticks boxes with me. To be honest everybody is their own person, people have different things that take priority in their thoughts and minds. My wife and myself have had arguements that revolve around this exact topic - I don’t remember this or I missed that she said that, I act cold and uninterested.

In my case I’m the sole income earner in the house and my job is extremely stressful on top of worrying about everything else like rent and bills to be paid on top of that. I love the bones of her but she doesn’t understand that if stressed up to 90 about something going on in work, I really don’t give a **** about who said what or what time this thing is at because it’s simply irrelevant at that point in time.

Not sure what point I’m trying to get across but maybe don’t go too hard on him over what you perceive to be indifference from his side - it could be anything. I love my wife and we get on brilliantly but there is only so much brain bandwidth to keep track and on top of things without being expected to recorded minor events too

Brain bandwidth brilliant expression never heard it before but just makes so much sense ( coming from the female perspective of having a husband who will say his head is wrecked and full of work)
Must be a man thing as my father will say the same to me about my Mum who he adores ( after forty plus years of marriage)when she is killing him with shopping and he just doesn’t get it! Men and women are so completely different.

tara73

The Specialist wrote: »

Male here and a lot of what you say about your partner ticks boxes with me. To be honest everybody is their own person, people have different things that take priority in their thoughts and minds. My wife and myself have had arguements that revolve around this exact topic - I don’t remember this or I missed that she said that, I act cold and uninterested.

yes, very true, and they could stay as they are if they think their behaviour is right or mature in a relationship, but doesn't help the OP, she obviously is suffering from it and rightly so. It was already mentioned she can't change him so she has to decide if she's willing to put up with it for the rest of her life or not.
She's very sensitive in acknowledging finally there's a big issue in her relationship and hopefully not putting up with it and suffering all her life like many other people unnecessarily do imo.

pwurple

I am the pragmatic one in our relationship, and never was bothered about marriage either until it became remarkably clear how practical it is. If you are framing it as a romantic notion, rather than what it really is... a legal pack, a contract, then that is the conversation you need to have.

For children, without it, there is a question about whether he is the legal guardian. This can be done with solicitors, and statements , and you can look up whether you have been cohabitating long enough and get things written up. or with marriage it is just automatic.

Next of kin rights. So here you are , pregnant... something happens in the hospital, you are unconscious, the hospital needs authority form next of kin to do an operation. You’re not married, they need to go find your parents. (This one happened us before we were married).

Tax. If you are taking extended mat leave, or any kind of time off work, or he is out of work for some reason, you want to transfer tax. Can’t do it unless married.

And then there is inheritance, which you should think about , if you are planning on having a huge asset like a house and kids to financially protect .Inheritance tax on any asset is ginormous if you are legal strangers. Why set yourselves up for the govt taking everything in a tax bill if one of you gets hit by a bus.


This 30k thing is rubbish. Getting married costs very little considering the legal work you would need to do to replicate the rights it comes with. 30k is the optional party you throw.