Council of Europe Restores Russia’s Voting Rights

kooper

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/world/europe/council-of-europe-russia-crimea.html


Majority of European countries including Ireland voted for restoring vote right to Russia in the PACE, despite its ignoring all demands from the Council of Europe.

Is this "Peace for Our Time," - 2?
(https://www.history.com/news/chamberlain-declares-peace-for-our-time-75-years-ago
Does Europe giving up its democratic values and gives a signal that dictatorship and aggression is acceptable in modern Europe?


Any ideas what is going on?

Dytalus

There is an argument to be made in bringing Russia back to the table for talks, and bringing its citizens under the protection of the European Court of Human Rights. Whether such things outweigh turning a blind eye towards Crimea and other Russian aggression is probably going to come down to personal opinion.

I have the rather cynical view that talking to Russia won't accomplish much. They were a member of the Council of Europe when they annexed Crimea, and they still went ahead with it. Removing a punishment you instituted for blatant imperialism risks sending the message that blatant imperialism isn't really all that bad.

Also, as a note (I don't know if it can be changed) but the Council of Europe is separate from the EU - unlike the European Council and the Council of the European Union, which is not a confusing jumble of councils at all - so that EU tag should be removed from the thread title.

kooper

Dytalus wrote: »

There is an argument to be made in bringing Russia back to the table for talks, and bringing its citizens under the protection of the European Court of Human Rights. Whether such things outweigh turning a blind eye towards Crimea and other Russian aggression is probably going to come down to personal opinion.

I have the rather cynical view that talking to Russia won't accomplish much. They were a member of the Council of Europe when they annexed Crimea, and they still went ahead with it. Removing a punishment you instituted for blatant imperialism risks sending the message that blatant imperialism isn't really all that bad.

Also, as a note (I don't know if it can be changed) but the Council of Europe is separate from the EU - unlike the European Council and the Council of the European Union, which is not a confusing jumble of councils at all - so that EU tag should be removed from the thread title.

I'd agree on the opinion that they won't accomplish much, They had 5 years to address at least one issue from the list given by PACE, but they didn't. And IMHO they don't even show any intention to follow the rules...


Changed tag to [General], hope it's OK now.

Dytalus

kooper wrote: »

I'd agree on the opinion that they won't accomplish much, They had 5 years to address at least one issue from the list given by PACE, but they didn't. And IMHO they don't even show any intention to follow the rules...

Yeah. Diplomacy hasn't really worked in curtailing Russian actions the past few years - they're probably emboldened by political developments in Europe and the US (Brexit and Trump and the like). I suppose if they were hit hard enough with economic sanctions then they might start listening, in which case having them on the Council might make sense. They haven't done anything egregious in the past year or so, but that doesn't mean they should get a pass for what they've done before that time period.

I imagine it's the same thought process that has Saudi Arabia on the UN Human Rights council. If you cut them out entirely, then there's no forum to engage with them on the topics you want them to address. Surely it's better to keep trying to talk to Russia within the Council, alongside whatever else Europe is doing, rather than cutting out any avenue of debate.

But like I said, the cynic in me doesn't think diplomacy without actions will do anything anyway.

Changed tag to [General], hope it's OK now.

Sweet. I hope I didn't come across as nitpicky, I was just wary of posters getting confused since there are at least 3 Europe related bodies all called "Council". :P

James Brown

All's forgiven when there's a shilling in it. At the end of the day cash is king. Putin is a dictator and likely ordered a number of killings, but they have gas and oil. I think this is more about appeasing Putin than anything else.

kooper

Matt Barrett wrote: »

All's forgiven when there's a shilling in it. At the end of the day cash is king. Putin is a dictator and likely ordered a number of killings, but they have gas and oil. I think this is more about appeasing Putin than anything else.

Will this really appease him? I bet Chamberlain in 1938, thought the same, turning a blind eye on German actions in Sudetenland. And we know what happened next .

James Brown

kooper wrote: »

Will this really appease him? I bet Chamberlain in 1938, thought the same, turning a blind eye on German actions in Sudetenland. And we know what happened next .

It's an ego thing. Putin does what he likes he just wants respect from the west while he does it. He doesn't like being told off.

kooper

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's an ego thing. Putin does what he likes he just wants respect from the west while he does it. He doesn't like being told off.

Well, history shows well enough, how feeding dictators ego ends...

rossie1977

Well as of right now Europe has a dilemma to solve. They have a giant secretive society on its border that it really doesn't want as an enemy but on the other hand doesn't want to give much control to.

kooper

rossie1977 wrote: »

Well as of right now Europe has a dilemma to solve. They have a giant secretive society on its border that it really doesn't want as an enemy but on the other hand doesn't want to give much control to.

So Europe trying to solve "War or Shame" dilemma once again. Hopefully this one will be handled better than the previous one...

Russian delegation in PACE will not tolerate any new restrictions — official

https://tass.com/world/1065385
Does anyone think those guys are ready to talk?