Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

is it just me or has this defensive football ruined gaelic football?

  • 23-06-2019 11:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    i played gaelic for 20 years and have always been interested in watching it but it has totally changed from the game i enjoyed and loved.

    15 of your own men in your own half, the opposition team strolling around passing sideways and backwards, nearly running out of options in the wing back position of their own half. the total fear of loosing possession and the match driving the overly defensive boring and ugly "football"

    I cant understand how people still pay good money to watch such a sport. in my opinion there has to be changes made to stop teams having their whole 15 in their own half. but unless people start voting with their feet the GAA wont make the changes.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,559 Mahony0509


    Completely. Most exciting game this weekend was the Munster final, when both teams actually went for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Dublin and Donegal won taking the game to the opposition. Meath in fairness tried. Cavan didn't. Just seemed to think the gunner Brady or somebody was going to descend from football heaven and miraculously win a game they thought they might win by, I don't know, tiring Donegal out maybe?

    Cork/Kerry was entertaining after Cork got the first goal and it became a contest, Didn't see any of the other games, and have no wish to.

    Yes, purely negative defence is a blight, but it pays no dividends other than in the lower realms. Something that will continue to be proven as the weeks go by.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭ Pogue eile


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Dublin and Donegal won taking the game to the opposition. Meath in fairness tried. Cavan didn't. Just seemed to think the gunner Brady or somebody was going to descend from football heaven and miraculously win a game they thought they might win by, I don't know, tiring Donegal out maybe?

    Cork/Kerry was entertaining after Cork got the first goal and it became a contest, Didn't see any of the other games, and have no wish to.

    Yes, purely negative defence is a blight, but it pays no dividends other than in the lower realms. Something that will continue to be proven as the weeks go by.

    Donegal regularly had 15 players in their own half, they were just able to break faster and more effectively than Cavan when they turned over possession. Plenty of team s have had sucess playing it, its why it has stayed with us for nigh on 20 years now. The fact that it doesnt work against Dublin is irrelevant because to be honest nothing works against Dublin!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling


    Is that you, Pat ?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Fan of Netflix


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Dublin and Donegal won taking the game to the opposition. Meath in fairness tried. Cavan didn't. Just seemed to think the gunner Brady or somebody was going to descend from football heaven and miraculously win a game they thought they might win by, I don't know, tiring Donegal out maybe?
    Cavan lost by 5 points and scored 2-16.

    Meath were humiliated and lost by 1-17 to 0-04.


    Above post is nonsense.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ Fan of Netflix


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Donegal regularly had 15 players in their own half, they were just able to break faster and more effectively than Cavan when they turned over possession. Plenty of team s have had sucess playing it, its why it has stayed with us for nigh on 20 years now. The fact that it doesnt work against Dublin is irrelevant because to be honest nothing works against Dublin!!
    Donegal had 15 players in their own 45 for long periods. It won't work against Dublin at all, they will be picked off especially in Croke Park.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 kmc25_1


    I would like them to get rid of the hand pass. Back in the day a hand pass was fairly clumsy with a strike from the hand being with a closed fist. Now the players can flick the ball away any way they want to. Having 3 forwards up now is pointless as the defence can just toss the ball around basketball /
    Rugby style around. Looks rubbish and kills excitement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ paddy no 11


    The clip of the 83 final was the best part of the day, long ball hoofed out of defence, punched on 30 yards by midfielder to the forward who ran in to the square and given a penalty, transition took about 2 seconds not a hope we'll see anything like it this year


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,725 ✭✭✭ WesternZulu


    kmc25_1 wrote: »
    I would like them to get rid of the hand pass. Back in the day a hand pass was fairly clumsy with a strike from the hand being with a closed fist. Now the players can flick the ball away any way they want to. Having 3 forwards up now is pointless as the defence can just toss the ball around basketball /
    Rugby style around. Looks rubbish and kills excitement.

    Getting rid of the hand pass would only make defending easier. The most obvious solution is 13 a side. Getting rid of the fisted point would be no harm either if for nothing else but aesthetic reasons.

    Anyway, a lot of the people harping back to catch and kick football often forget how bad it was. It was absolutely terrible!! The only surprise is how long it took for gaelic football as a sport to adopt a possession based approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭ pgj2015


    Getting rid of the hand pass would only make defending easier. The most obvious solution is 13 a side. Getting rid of the fisted point would be no harm either if for nothing else but aesthetic reasons.

    Anyway, a lot of the people harping back to catch and kick football often forget how bad it was. It was absolutely terrible!! The only surprise is how long it took for gaelic football as a sport to adopt a possession based approach.



    if they changed it to 13 a side, you would just have 13 players in their own half not 15. it wont change anything. what about only allowing 1-9 to be in their own half.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 22,890 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    if they changed it to 13 a side, you would just have 13 players in their own half not 15. it wont change anything. what about only allowing 1-9 to be in their own half.

    At 13-a-side, with a requirement to keep at least two in the opposing half, you would only have 11 behind the ball defending, compared to 15 now. That will open more space for attacking players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,534 ✭✭✭✭ jmayo


    It's getting pretty boring now watching teams play the percentages where they would rather hand pass the ball around until maybe, just maybe, they find someone unmarked on the edge of the D.

    Watching some of the games you have players kicking free kicks back into their own half because they can't bloody well find a player by kicking it forward and it looks like giving away possession is now a greater crime than playing rugby or soccer during the ban.

    Before you know it some bright spark will want it to be a handpass over the bar and not bother chancing a kick.

    Some people argue that there is a skill into maintaining possession and shure look at the art form that Barca brought to it in soccer.
    Yeah that is soccer and not what is now looking like basketball.

    Speaking of which does anyone ever wonder why they brought in the rules about pass back into your own court and the time restrictions.
    Might it have something to do with stopping a possession passing game and boring everyone to death.

    Edit: I also noticed in some matches that it appears some players hand pass for a reason, their kick passing is shyte.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ ThunbergsAreGo


    Are there not more scores than ever in games??


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭ Crash Bang Wall


    blanch152 wrote: »
    At 13-a-side, with a requirement to keep at least two in the opposing half, you would only have 11 behind the ball defending, compared to 15 now. That will open more space for attacking players.

    15 a side is the way to go, with a rule whereby you have to keep, say 4, inside the opposition 45 is the way to go.

    There are too many of the skills of gaelic football being lost (high fetching, long kick passing etc).

    Making it a 13 man game will worsen that, where fitness levels will be even more important than they are already.

    Dont get me wrong, fitness levels shouldnt be neglected, but it shouldnt be as big of an advantage as it is at present to teams like Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭ flasher0030


    15 a side is the way to go, with a rule whereby you have to keep, say 4, inside the opposition 45 is the way to go.

    There are too many of the skills of gaelic football being lost (high fetching, long kick passing etc).

    Making it a 13 man game will worsen that, where fitness levels will be even more important than they are already.

    Dont get me wrong, fitness levels shouldnt be neglected, but it shouldnt be as big of an advantage as it is at present to teams like Dublin

    How is a ref supposed to monitor that - looking around the pitch to make sure at all times that there are 4 players from each team inside the opposition's 45 - and then at the same time see what's actually going on where the ball is. It might be possible to have a couple of refs for big games in Croke Park. But you can't have those resources for club games. I don't think that will work at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭ Pogue eile


    How is a ref supposed to monitor that - looking around the pitch to make sure at all times that there are 4 players from each team inside the opposition's 45 - and then at the same time see what's actually going on where the ball is. It might be possible to have a couple of refs for big games in Croke Park. But you can't have those resources for club games. I don't think that will work at all.

    It would also lead to a comical situation where a defender is coming out with the ball and the forward who is chasing and tackling has to stop at the 45 and let him off!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭ Crash Bang Wall


    How is a ref supposed to monitor that - looking around the pitch to make sure at all times that there are 4 players from each team inside the opposition's 45 - and then at the same time see what's actually going on where the ball is. It might be possible to have a couple of refs for big games in Croke Park. But you can't have those resources for club games. I don't think that will work at all.

    At intercounty and club championship games, the neutral linesman can monitor that.....club league games would be more difficult....underage the same.

    Id still rather a rule change than a 13 a side running game where fitness matters more than skill levels


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    Pogue eile wrote:
    Donegal regularly had 15 players in their own half, they were just able to break faster and more effectively than Cavan when they turned over possession. Plenty of team s have had sucess playing it, its why it has stayed with us for nigh on 20 years now. The fact that it doesnt work against Dublin is irrelevant because to be honest nothing works against Dublin!!

    I agree with you mostly,
    This system did work against Dublin, but it wasn't fixed by fitness as some of the other posters may like to think or have heard about Dublin players.
    Dublin players didn't decide to get fitter to beat the system they faced in 2014. They decided not to panic, to pass the ball and wait for a better opportunity.

    Cavan did turn over position but for long periods of time they were incredibly slow moving the ball up. Donegals defensive system looked smooth but Cavan helped them by letting them get back. Mayo, Dublin, Kerry would move it faster.

    I'd say that Mayo have smashed a few defensive systems recently too, with relentless tackling from their forwards, they only hit this level of intensity in knockout football.

    Dublin have found their own way around it, and it doesn't take a lot more energy, it's more discipline, there's often nobody hanging out of the player running around the D as the other team wont engage in that area.

    Some think its simply players using their fitness to put themselves into easy scoring positions, yes McCaffrey does that but if people think that's how they do it they are just hanging onto an idea that their players are more skillful etc, it's an old one at this stage coming up on 50 years old, it has some grounds alright but it doesn't get them over the line. Mayo have looked fitter in games and lost.


    Defensive football is boring, part of the thinking around it is that players will panic and make poor shot selections.

    So don't make them, stuff the defensive team, they can't make those shots either, they counter quickly, try to get an easier shot.

    So working the ball around until you get one makes is a way to tackle it the foot pass into space is just not on in defensive football, even the hand pass in is often not on, that's created by the defensive team, all the top teams are defensive.

    I agree that reducing the congestion is worth looking at. I don't think the mark is the answer, or making teams play the ball forward that is simply targeting a tactic that's used to counter the defensive system in the first place .

    We need more space for better football imo, not more forced errors


Advertisement