Manure Pit

Diarmuid B

Hi all, just looking for suggestions and advice on building a manure pit.


We have a two bay dryshed at the moment(will expand to either three bay or two bay double in a few years). At the moment we are leaving the manure in a pile beside the shed when we clean it out, and with environmental issues etc we need to build a manure pit.

What size pit would be standard for this kind of thing? Poured concrete walls and an effluent run off with a tank in the ground? We're based in the west so naturally more rainfall and more effluent, the tank size is based on expected rainfall for the closed period?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Base price

Here is a link to DAFM specifications. They are dated 2017 and my have changed since - https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/S108June2017120617.pdf

Water John

Thanks Base, those are handy.
Ideally you want to keep dung dry and turn it a couple times before spreading.
Saw on an organic farm walk recently, because he hadn't a specific holding area, he simply did not clean out under the cows over the winter. Just left it build up. Then he had a slatted tank at the front where the cows ate and the was able to hold the seepage from the bedding.

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

Thanks Base, those are handy.
Ideally you want to keep dung dry and turn it a couple times before spreading.
Saw on an organic farm walk recently, because he hadn't a specific holding area, he simply did not clean out under the cows over the winter. Just left it build up. Then he had a slatted tank at the front where the cows ate and the was able to hold the seepage from the bedding.

That bits not entirely true.
The decomposing bacteria won't work without moisture. If dung is left in a shed without adequate moisture it won't rot down.
You'll often see the windrow compost turners with an added water supply to get the microbes going.

Edit: 60 - 70% moisture is what you want.

Water John

Thanks for that. Wasn't aware of that point.

Upstream

Base price wrote: »

Here is a link to DAFM specifications. They are dated 2017 and my have changed since - https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/S108June2017120617.pdf

I had a quick look at these specifications, and they made me wonder about a few things?

Would the net result of building a manure pit surrounded by concrete and roofed be to keep the elements out?
Would you be left with a pile of manure that could only break down anaerobically and not give the good bugs - aerobic bacteria and worms and so on - a chance to do their bit?

Basically, is this like Fort Knox for worms?

Good farmyard manure should be able to break down aerobically, and turn into a kind of compost. The more life and biology to aid the breakdown process the better. Then when you spread it on the land it would inoculate the soil with healthy bacteria and fungi. This would feed the whole soil food web and improve soil fertility much more than the basic N, P and K contents of the manure on their own.

Adding some worms and healthy soil to inoculate the pile at the start of the season might help, I'm not sure. But I'd say this is completely overlooked on most farms.

Or maybe that's not necessary, has anyone spotted their pile teeming with life without adding anything?

Say my name

Upstream wrote: »

I had a quick look at these specifications, and they made me wonder about a few things?

Would the net result of building a manure pit surrounded by concrete and roofed be to keep the elements out?
Would you be left with a pile of manure that could only break down anaerobically and not give the good bugs - aerobic bacteria and worms and so on - a chance to do their bit?

Basically, is this like Fort Knox for worms?

Good farmyard manure should be able to break down aerobically, and turn into a kind of compost. The more life and biology to aid the breakdown process the better. Then when you spread it on the land it would inoculate the soil with healthy bacteria and fungi. This would feed the whole soil food web and improve soil fertility much more than the basic N, P and K contents of the manure on their own.

Adding some worms and healthy soil to inoculate the pile at the start of the season might help, I'm not sure. But I'd say this is completely overlooked on most farms.

Or maybe that's not necessary, has anyone spotted their pile teeming with life without adding anything?

If it's on concrete and dry on concrete it won't turn into your superfood/stable carbon for soil. Heck even the piles outside on land when they go thermo nuclear/over heat go anaerobic.

I doubt you'll make any good stuff on concrete. The dept only look at it from a runoff point of view.

We're ignorant as a community here on utilizing our dungheaps. Although there are some that have it figured and have it full of mycorrhizal fungi before spreading.
My own opinion it's harder to do with straw dung than woodchip dung.

Pruex market a fym inoculant however that works out.

Biochar if it was made to scale would keep your heap aerobic due to it's porosity and bind up ammonia and sulphates. Which means no smell during composting. You'll also have a longer lasting action on land.

Water John

Heard Clive Bright, Sligo is an expert voice on composting manure. He also practises mob grazing.

Say my name

Water John wrote: »

Heard Clive Bright, Sligo is an expert voice on composting manure. He also practises mob grazing.

Heard him speak or heard tell of him?

Upstream

Say my name wrote: »

Heard him speak or heard tell of him?

I heard Clive speak about mob grazing at the NOTS Biological Farming conference last year. He sells his own beef as well - very good it is too.

49801

Saw a farm this year with what I thought looked a smart setup

Basically a below ground concrete pit with a ramp for access with tractor to drive in. It was uncovered and maybe 5ft deep. Chain link fence around it. Run off from straw bedded sheds, silage pit etc all directed to it. It was downhill from them all.

Ok does mean catching rain water but it was containing muck, spoiled silage and effluent.

Think I heard to help speed rotting turn 5 times is effective and I’d argue moving manure to field for a period helps that process during the open period.

Base price

49801 wrote: »

Saw a farm this year with what I thought looked a smart setup

Basically a below ground concrete pit with a ramp for access with tractor to drive in. It was uncovered and maybe 5ft deep. Chain link fence around it. Run off from straw bedded sheds, silage pit etc all directed to it. It was downhill from them all.

Ok does mean catching rain water but it was containing muck, spoiled silage and effluent.

Think I heard to help speed rotting turn 5 times is effective and I’d argue moving manure to field for a period helps that process during the open period.

Traditional dung steads (we have one) were simular to the set up that you described but nowdays DAFM require that new dung steads are covered.

grassroot1

Build your shed bigger and keep the dung under the cattle till you clean it out during the summer. Pile on the land and spread in October.

Water John

I think you turn every two weeks and make sure it doesn't overheat.

Good loser

Water John wrote: »

I think you turn every two weeks and make sure it doesn't overheat.

That's way too much work.

Water John

I'm not suggesting using the four prong pike. Once it starts breaking down, it's only moving it to a new heap with the front end loader bucket. If you have a digger, very little time.

dmakc

How long should you leave dung piled before spreading?

gozunda

dmakc wrote: »

How long should you leave dung piled before spreading?

6 months is a normal timeframe for breakdown. As long as the pile is composting away - it should be ready by then. That said you can happily leave it longer or until needed. Dung will burn grass if applied without proper composting.

grassroot1

grassroot1 wrote: »

Build your shed bigger and keep the dung under the cattle till you clean it out during the summer. Pile on the land and spread in October.

I can’t understand how people do this, I can’t imagine the mess and the cows would nearly step out over the barrier long before the winter was over with the height of muck.

We clean out every 3 weeks and even at that there is a serious height of muck and that’s only 4 bales of straw too, it’s not just the muck building it’s the straw too.

Water John wrote: »

I'm not suggesting using the four prong pike. Once it starts breaking down, it's only moving it to a new heap with the front end loader bucket. If you have a digger, very little time.

God thats a massive amount of work and I’m not sure what the benefit is. Even logistically I’m not seeing how you could do it, we have a purpose build walled dung stead and you simply couldn’t even access the stuff at the back once you added another shed clean out. Maybe you only have small amounts of dung.

We find the dung very good and it’s just piled up in the uncovered dung stead and not touched until we draw it over the fields in mid summer and pile it there until autumn when we spread it.