One Night Stand Debacle

zcorpian88

Right,

Last week I had an amazing week, went to two concerts in the space of a few days, enjoyed myself thoroughly, in the lead up to the two gigs I was messaging this nice woman on POF who liked one of the same acts but she couldn't attend the gig due to work, she lives in my locale which makes a change from anyone I messaged on or even met on it before. So I said out of niceness that I'd get a video of her fave song and send it to her at some point during or after the gig, which I did and she was delighted with it

Anyway, last Friday afternoon I got back from the concert the night before, stayed overnight with a buddy of mine, spirits were high and all that.

Was just chilling out at home and she was snapchating me on and off throughout the day, got a bit more flirty as it got into the evening, said her snaps were cute and she said the same of mine, said I'd love a meet-up sometime and she said "Yeah that would be brilliant" she had plans that night to hang out with a friend so I said "Good stuff, have a good night" and it was all quiet for about an hour and a half. Next thing she texts me saying her plans fell through and she asked "Fancy a hangout?"

I said "Yeah, cool, why not?" so I scrubbed up real quick had no time for a shower I only had a half hour to get down to her so I washed up real quick, brushed teeth, threw on a decent shirt, some aftershave and headed down to a bar we both knew to meet up. Met her near the pub, and she is very pretty, chatty and full of banter, had a laugh with her all evening. About 2 hours into the night, we were in the beer garden and she asked for a kiss, so went in for kiss, which was very prolonged and just terrific, next thing she became very handsy and gropey, something I am totally not used to on a first date, but it was great.

I won't go into detail on what happened in the beer garden but for a fella who has had barely any sexual contact in pushing on 3 years, I was all up for it, I until this point was a 30 year old "one night stand virgin" I suppose. This s**t just doesn't happen to me. Anyway we calmed down a bit and had another drink or two more then I end up back in her house where more shifting ensued, she made it known that she doesn't sleep around and I said "Neither do I" which was the truth, and we took it upstairs.

What followed was a unbelievably prolonged roll in the hay, which went on I have no idea how long, I think it was starting to get light out when we were wore out and finally went to sleep, but I believe I hit it out of the park and she was magnificent too, and it followed a repeat performance when morning came which was dare I say better which left me wrecked for the day. I'll go as far and say it's the best I've had in closing in on 5 years.

We talked loads then and had tea and I played with her dog for a while, she had to head to her hometown for a few days to give her family a hand in their family business so she packed a few things while I played with her dog, she fancied a hangout for the afternoon but her Dad wanted her to be back a little sooner than later so I said I'd buy her lunch somewhere nice before she headed off, so we did that, had a nice lunch then went to a shop so she could pick a Father's day present for her Dad, was heavy so I carried it to her car, and she dropped me off home, and got a kiss goodbye.

Basically I was on a bit of a high then for the weekend, met some friends on the Saturday and they were wondering why I was in higher than usual mood. Told my male and female friend the jist of the story without as much detail as I have here of course, kept it short and sweet because they don't need to hear that... and they were like "Wow!" etc

The weekend was great, then I get up for work Monday, and there is a text on my phone and it reads "hey I had a really fun time with you but I'm not looking for something serious and is it cool if we're just mates?" was a confusing thing to look at, text her back then went to work all hazey headed for the day, had a good day in work but at the same time I wanted to be there and didn't want to be there, my form was off due to the confusion of that message and the texts didn't pick up until I finished work, so it was a long as f**k day kind of.

It was a bit of a knock to me, since I generally hadn't done the whole one night thing before and hoped something could be made out of it, I thought she was into me like. Tried to talk her around, saying I had taken a liking to her and generally I have never had a one night stand with anyone.

She says she's not into them either but she has no idea what she wants and doesn't think that's fair on me.

I said well I didn't regret what happened the other night and I think it's a shame she's not willing to give me a chance and that I enjoyed being in her company even if I didn't go home with her and that I really got the feeling she liked me during and after it all happened and I had it in mind that it could go somewhere and I'd hate to think I done something to change her mind about me.

She then says she does like me and thinks I'm really cool and we like a lot of the same stuff and I didn't say or do anything wrong and that she usually falls instantly and knows when she does and she'd love if we could hang out and wanted to be honest and not waste my time because that would be unfair and hoped I didn't feel bad

I said "Well I'm not going to grovel or beg for a chance, you know how you feel" and said that I was up for keeping in contact. Like I didn't want to be a big prick about it, even if I was a little bitter. I have been the bitter prick in the past with people that (ahem...rejected me) but I'm working on being the better person and not doing that anymore. I've had a crappy few years dating wise leading up to this..

She said she wants to keep in contact and to not overthink it and she doesn't expect me to beg or grovel for a chance and that I'm lovely and smart and sound and good in bed and it's just how she feels and if I want to be her friend that's cool, if not that's also cool.

Said I was ok with being friends, but at the same time I'm like "F**k sake!" In my head it's kind of like scoring a goal in the World Cup then being told I was offside or something. I've been busy from Monday to now working and hadn't had a chance to really think about the situation and let it sink in, I've just been repeating the word "F**k" quietly to myself all evening.

We had been texting on and off throughout the week, she more or less subtly said she's up for a more casual arrangement, like friends with benefits type of thing. At my age am I too old for that kind of craic? She's 2 years older than me as well, I'd like to think at our age people would have some idea what they want and are after something a bit more serious or long term. No??

I know this is a long and wandering story now that I read it back, all I'm wondering is, do I bother pursuing it further hoping she'll change her mind? Should I partake in the casual arrangement if she contacts me over it? Probably would be fun, but at the same time, I'd like a bit more than that like..

All opinions will be duly noted.


Thanks

physioman

<SNIP>

She is using you as an escape from something or someone. You had a good time. Great. Enjoy the memories and move on.

simongurnick

Keep cool man. You'll scare her off. A shag here and there isn't the worst thing in the world. Also it's not like you met her in a church.

Nikki Sixx

I’d say rattle her till the things comes to a natural end.

Nikki Sixx

As you said yourself you haven’t had anything serious in years, just ride her and be happy while it lasts.

ted1

Look its tough , you could see how you get on as FWB. But if you like her it’ll be tough if nothing comes from it. But on the other hand it might help your confidence come the next girl.

zcorpian88

Been thinking the same thing ted1, she's terrific like, just kills me that she has a strange philosophy about falling for someone instantly, like I haven't "fallen for her" per se. To me the words "falling for" would be a definition of falling in love, which is ridiculous after a first date. Maybe she phrased it wrong but that's very much what she said.

I would have said give it a few more encounters and she might feel differently about me. For me right now it's an infatuation that I'd like to build on, but seems she doesn't think the same way as I do. I dunno, I'll see where it goes I suppose. Ta everyone for the replies so far.

dickangel

Try go with the flow pal. There's always the risk you might get hurt if you develop serious feeling for her but you never know maybe she'll be more into it as time goes on. In the meantime you have an opportunity to sleep with someone you're very attracted to, not the worst thing in the world.

detoxkid

She's been very open with you. She's not looking for something serious. Assume that won't change - it's unlikely it will. And then see are you happy sleeping with someone you want a bit more from. It sounds like there's great chemistry there and if you treat it for what she has said it is you'll have loads of fun. But don't go in hoping it will develop into something more

harr

Be grateful she is being open with you and not leading you on regarding the possibility of a relationship
, if it’s the odd bit of fun why not take it , it might develop further or not but for the moment if you both are ok with the odd sexual encounter then go for it ., if that’s what you want .
Don’t fly into it looking for a relationship because it’s not what she wants just yet.

Dial Hard

I'm going to have to go against the rest of the advice here. If it was anyone else I'd be telling you to just enjoy it while it lasts but I've read (and responded to) a *lot* of your posts about women on Boards and I think it's fair to say you fixate on them very easily. You have a pattern of getting completely overinvested in women you hadn't even met yet so I think a FWB scenario with a women you clearly want more from would be an absolute car crash for you. Sorry.

woodchuck

all I'm wondering is, do I bother pursuing it further hoping she'll change her mind? Should I partake in the casual arrangement if she contacts me over it? Probably would be fun, but at the same time, I'd like a bit more than that like..

No and no!

It's a disaster waiting to happen. You obviously have feelings for her, but she has made it perfectly clear that she doesn't want a relationship with you. Partaking in a more casual arrangement and/or hoping she'll change her mind is just going to lead to heartache for you.

Ursus Horribilis

"At least he's not ranting about his ex again" was my first thought when I opened this. I too am familiar with your past posts. That's why I think you need to let this go. There is no debacle going on here at all either. You just had a one night stand with someone you clicked with in a big way. Going by what she has told you, things will not be going any further than this.

I'm not the only boardsie who has seen and read the walls of text you wrote about your ex. She too was a woman who was ultimately unavailable to you. You found that hard to accept and as a result, it made you angry and bitter. You weren't hearing what she was telling you and you raged against it and against her. At its core, it's because you couldn't turn her around to your way of thinking and you didn't get your own way. People weren't advising you to go get professional help just for the sake of it.

I can see the very same thing happening here because it's just another version of the same thing. You can't have her if she doesn't want it. I think you're at risk of becoming fixated with this woman and getting hurt. And you will yet again get angry and frustrated that she can't see how great you both would be together. You can't convince someone to go out with you if they don't want it. That is why I believe you should ignore the "enjoy the ride while it lasts, dude" advice that others are giving.

You have been advised in the past to get professional help over your women issues (not just your ex) but I doubt you took that up. You should because I think you might be sabotaging your chances of meeting someone. If your online persona is reflected in how you are offine, you are putting women off you. You hit the jackpot with this woman and it's a shame it's not reciprocated. It is a hopeful sign that you can still meet a woman you like and not the sorts you've been using in the meantime. But stop being pig-headed and go talk to a therapist. You need it.

LegacyUser

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'm going to have to go against the rest of the advice here. If it was anyone else I'd be telling you to just enjoy it while it lasts but I've read (and responded to) a *lot* of your posts about women on Boards and I think it's fair to say you fixate on them very easily. You have a pattern of getting completely overinvested in women you hadn't even met yet so I think a FWB scenario with a women you clearly want more from would be an absolute car crash for you. Sorry.

This - 100%! Also, FWB only work when both parties are on the same page. You'd be going into it wanting more and hoping it would change. I think you'd be setting yourself up for heartbreak, and becoming really bitter about it.

I mean, you already sent her a message saying you won't beg and grovel - you had no right to send her a message like that! She's being 100% honest with you. If you don't like it you simply say "no thanks, not for me", and move on.

Wheety

Just move on. You had a great night. She doesn't want more. Although it seems strange to you, it's completely her prerogative to not want a relationship.

If you're looking for a relationship, find it elsewhere.

Meauldsegosha

Going by the length and detail of your first post a casual relationship or FWB situation is not for you. She has told you want she wants so move on.

She doesn't owe you a thing. You had a one night stand. Wish her well and move on with your life, and get counselling for your attachment issues

wiggle16

Ah here.

No, you shouldn't pester her until she "changes her mind". She has made it clear to you that she's not interested in anything further, you heard it loud and clear. And she was decent about it. Many people don't bother letting the other person know they're not interested, and just ghost them instead. She said usually she knows pretty quickly if she is into someone and she didn't get that feeling from you and let you know straight away rather than stringing you along. That was decent of her.

You had a wonderful time with her by the sounds of things. That's great. But she doesn't want a relationship. It's a pity but it's just one of those things.

The whole "let's just be friends" schtick is a nicety, that's all. She's tried to be fair to you and you're not taking "no" for an answer. I'm sorry, but you're not entitled to anything further just because you have strong feelings about it, that's the long and short of it. You said that at your age people should know what they want. She does. She knows she wants nothing further with you. OP, by the same token at your age you should know when to take no for an answer (and I am the same age as you). I've been told "no" and dumped more times than I can remember. You just need to say fair enough and move on.

I would have said give it a few more encounters and she might feel differently about me. For me right now it's an infatuation that I'd like to build on, but seems she doesn't think the same way as I do. I dunno, I'll see where it goes I suppose.

It's not going to go anywhere. You need to drop it, accept it for what it was, a wonderful fling, and leave it at that. I'm sorry if I am being harsh, I understand you are disappointed but you are being very self-involved here and disrespectful to her in thinking that you should try to change her mind by getting into a FWB in bad faith.

ILoveYourVibes

I'm sorry Op. That sucks.


She might change her mind. I don't know. I think you would need to know her better to understand her emotionally.

She might have other things in her head or life you don't know about.

If you decide to keep sleeping with her just make sure that is emotionally healthy for you.

irishgirl19

OP, your post here is coming on a way too strong for someone you've had one encounter with.
If I as a reader can sense this, it is probably scaring her off. However she has been open with you so I would take what she says as face value

Larbre34

To anyone I would say, so long as you can keep it light and have fun, then see where it goes and enjoy the ride in every sense of the word.

But, and I say this as a fella that has been there in times past, 'so long as' very clearly doesn't apply in your case. You are already investing pretty deeply in this emotionally. You're description of a gap in your recent sexual relationships may be intensifying that a lot more for you than the woman is feeling herself, so honestly you are at something of a disadvantage when it comes to analysing whats going on (which is completely normal by the way, its exceptional when two people are of one mind in something like this)

What I'd say is, keep in touch and enjoy your common interests, but resist the "hangouts" that turn into casual sex, they will only make you feel good for a short time. If, on the basis of compatibility, she starts to express an interest in something deeper then explore that, but don't let her use you or take advantage of any deeper emotions coming out in you while at the same time don't let her string you along indefinitely.

If it develops into a conventional friendship, great, if it develops into a partnership, then great too, but do let it develop.

fineso.mom

OP even the title of the thread is over the top...This is not a debacle. It was a one night stand where two people had great fun, but one person decided a ons was enough. The end.

LegacyUser

Larbre34 wrote: »

but don't let her use you or take advantage of any deeper emotions coming out in you while at the same time don't let her string you along indefinitely.

Hang on now, she's been extremely clear with the OP about what she does and does not want. She can't take advantage of him nor can she string him along. He knows exactly where he stands. If he gets into a FWB situation with her and gets hurt, he'll only have himself to blame.

Kidchameleon

Just enjoy the moment. She is not GF / wife material in the long run.

Xaniaj

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Just enjoy the moment. She is not GF / wife material in the long run.

Because she had a ONS? Does that mean he is not husband material? Ridiculous opinion in this day and age.

Leave it OP, she's been honest with you and you should respect that.

zoobizoo

"Well I'm not going to grovel or beg for a chance, you know how you feel" - That escalated quickly.

Why would you think that the next step would have been for you to to grovel or beg? Why do you think that this person would think that this is what she wanted you to do?

It's like you've fallen in love because you had a nice sexual encounter and a bit of post-sex hanging out and have started projecting your unrealistic relationship expectations on her.

ginandtonicsky

You got laid, congratulations. It feels like it’s more meaningful than it is because it had been a while for you. You need to exercise a bit of self awareness here and realise that just because you feel a certain way, doesn’t mean you’re entitled to anything beyond the night in question and it doesn’t mean you’ve been “wronged” either. It just means you both aren’t on the same page in terms of what you both wanted from this encounter.

If you’re someone that’s prone to obsession and rumination over the women you date or have any kind of intimate interaction with, I’d advise dealing with that separately so that it doesn’t affect your peace of mind or your interpersonal relationships. CBT with a good qualified therapist might be a good place to start. You deserve happiness and having some underlying issue that causes your brain to go to this place with every woman you meet is not conducive to that.

woodchuck

Mod note:

This is a reminder to all posters to remain on topic. Please only post if you have advice for the OP.

Enjoy it for what it was. A good night of passion. How well do you know this woman? Is it possible you are her bit on the side?

Idle Passerby

I would bet money she's only recently out of a relationship. She obviously picked up on your eagerness to have this develop into something serious. Whatever her reasons for pulling back, she's been very straightforward and upfront with you so there's no room for misunderstanding here.
She doesn't want to get to get into anything with you. You can't talk someone into being interested in you. Waiting in the wings for them to fall for you is pretty pathetic and does not inspire respect.
If you can't put your feelings aside and just be friends with her your better off cutting the cord now. No harm was done. It's disappointing when the person you like doesn't share your feelings but sometimes that's just life.

punisher5112

You had a great time, great night and maybe she just wanted some company... Never know could be out of relationship or just really needed a service....

Be glad it was a happy experience and if you like the girl stay in contact, many say what she did and end up talking rubbish to see how the other reacts....

Don't push though and stay classy and chilled and don't be a tool or cocky too much.

.......

I think it sounds like she likes you but she is keeping her options open because she isnt mad about you.

This way she can still see you now and again and have sex with you while she is at a loose end or no one else is showing interest, but if she gets a better offer she can let you go easily as she isnt properly attached to you.

This means nothing but headwreck for you - these scenarios dont work when one person is really into the other.

So for your own sake I would say to leave it now and dont get into a casual situation with her.

You are coming across as quite intense for a ONS - but fair enough you liked her and had a great time, shame it wasnt reciprocated from her side but such is life, move on.

ManOfMystery

You're completely overthinking this.

You had a one night stand. You then managed to write a nearly 1500 word essay about it. For most people, a ONS is meant to be quick - spontaneous - casual - fun - and usually they move on from it fairly quickly.

By your own admission, you don't do one night stands normally - you seem to have more form for ongoing relationships of sorts, be they casual or longterm. And by your previous posts, you also seem to fixate on the subject of your desires and seem unable to comprehend or accept that they may not want the same thing as you.

Put these together and it's not hard to see why you are failing to grasp that a one night stand is just that for this girl. You don't know her past, you don't know where she is emotionally at this stage in her life, and you have to accept that no matter how you may feel about things, she's not looking for anything more at the moment. Some of those replies you sent her made me cringe, passively aggressively insinuating some kind of perceived slight on your part - she was upfront and honest with you, at least have the decency to respect the fact that she never led you on.

zapper55

She's told you in many ways that she's not interested. Instead of accepting it you have been passive aggressive and obsessive. No one owes you their time or their body, just because you had great sex.

However I do think you've shown more awareness than previous posts you had. Keep working on yourself.

Anna2834

You had a great time and I would leave it at that. She wont change her mind...if you will see her again, one of your will be getting hurt and it wont be her. Move on...she's obviously getting over someone herself (or some other issues). There are so many other great women out there...

rondog

OP ,i would keep nailing that and keep teh pipes clean.Keep it FWB.

While tapping that you could be on the look out for someone else who may want you.

SaltSweatSugar

zcorpian88 wrote: »

For me right now it's an infatuation that I'd like to build on, but seems she doesn't think the same way as I do. I dunno, I'll see where it goes I suppose. Ta everyone for the replies so far.

This is the bit that jumps out at me OP. This infatuation you have with this woman. It seems you’ve built up this thing up in your head to something that isn’t real. Infatuations aren’t healthy. You might like to build on it, but she doesn’t. And she’s been very clear about that. You had a great time, but she’s been honest with you about what she wants. You need to accept that and move on, FWB doesn’t work when one person has feelings for the other, trust me I know. It’ll only hurt you more in the long run. Don’t be the guy that hangs around secretly hoping she’ll change her mind, you could miss out on so many other women better suited to you.

qwerty13

You had sex. You had a good time. But she doesn’t want it to become anything else.

It’s not a debacle, she didn’t string you along, she was clear with you about what she did - and did not - want.

You seem to think that it would ‘all be ok if only she realised’. Or that she’s somehow wronged you. Those are both very unattractive traits. Especially the latter. She’s done nothing wrong. You had sex, you hung out a bit, and she decided she didn’t want any more. Accept that. Like really ACCEPT THAT.

lunamoon

qwerty13 wrote: »

You had sex. You had a good time. But she doesn’t want it to become anything else.

It’s not a debacle, she didn’t string you along, she was clear with you about what she did - and did not - want.

You seem to think that it would ‘all be ok if only she realised’. Or that she’s somehow wronged you. Those are both very unattractive traits. Especially the latter. She’s done nothing wrong. You had sex, you hung out a bit, and she decided she didn’t want any more. Accept that. Like really ACCEPT THAT.

This x 1000

Just move on.

leggo

This is really straightforward, but also really human so I don't judge you OP.

You hadn't had sex in three years. Then this girl came along and you had a great night. So now, you've got all these hormones running around your head like this woman is the saviour of your sex life and, without her, it'll be another three years and all the loneliness and bad feelings will return. That's making you desperate and clingy when you really have no right to be. You don't know this person that well TO be infatuated with them. So what you're infatuated with is really just a projection you're putting onto this woman of who she is and a potential future together that's happening completely in your head but isn't real.

Try take a step back and view this situation as a passenger. What I'm saying makes a ton of sense if you're honest with yourself, right?

So, instead of viewing things that way, view it this way: things are looking up. There's obviously a reason this girl you like wanted to have sex with you and all of the nice afters you had when you woke up the next day. She's probably being truthful when she says she's not in the headspace for a relationship, so that's not even a reflection or rejection of you. Soooo you're obviously doing something, maybe without even realising it, that's making you more attractive to women than you had been in the previous three years. Which means there's absolutely no reason to think that this can't happen again with someone else and hopefully they'll be interested in a relationship!

Here's the only slight flip side: you've GOT to go to counselling and deal with this obsessive side of your personality. PI has been screaming at you about it for years, it's time to acknowledge (from a position of strength as a person who's just got the ride) that it's there and that letting it fester DOES run the risk of it derailing any potential future relationships or happiness you have. What WON'T happen in counselling, especially if you get the right counsellor, is that someone will say "Everything is all your fault!" So don't fear it. What WILL happen is that you'll get someone compassionate, who's on your side, who'll hear you out and help you figure out for yourself where this came from and how to develop different ways of dealing with things in order to enable you to build a happy future for yourself when the right person come along.

Trust us on this and I guarantee that, in time, you'll be walking around like a king with the world dancing to your beat.

BoardsMember

leggo wrote: »

Here's the only slight flip side: you've GOT to go to counselling and deal with this obsessive side of your personality. PI has been screaming at you about it for years, it's time to acknowledge (from a position of strength as a person who's just got the ride) that it's there and that letting it fester DOES run the risk of it derailing any potential future relationships or happiness you have. What WON'T happen in counselling, especially if you get the right counsellor, is that someone will say "Everything is all your fault!" So don't fear it. What WILL happen is that you'll get someone compassionate, who's on your side, who'll hear you out and help you figure out for yourself where this came from and how to develop different ways of dealing with things in order to enable you to build a happy future for yourself when the right person come along.

Trust us on this and I guarantee that, in time, you'll be walking around like a king with the world dancing to your beat.

Please read this OP and then make a phone call and book an appointment. Sounds to me like you have a lot to give, but anyone with a moderate level of EQ or experience in relationships can sense obsessive behaviour very easily. Sorting this out will free you up and open up your options, it's a win win. Good luck, be honest with yourself.

Dial Hard

Clean Up Your Act wrote:

Op, if you really like her, then fight for her. Don't let her go!

This is nonsense advice. The girl has told him clearly she's not interested. He needs to respect that and also listen to the absolute piles of advice he's been givenover the years about dealing with his fixation issues.

isohon

Clean Up Your Act wrote: »

Op, if you really like her, then fight for her. Don't let her go!

Why fight for someone who doesn't want you though?

I'm not aware of the OP's other posts as mentioned by others in the thread but from what I read in this thread alone it seems like a really bad idea for him to pursue someone who has politely made fairly clear that they aren't interested in a relationship. Seems like needlessly torturing yourself to continue to on in those circumstances.

OP, take heart, you had a good time with someone who had a good time with you. That is a success. It sucks that ye aren't on the same page now but for your own sake, and to respect her wishes chalk it up as a good experience and move on. You also know that you are attractive enough to have someone you obviously found attractive sleep with you. That's good and means you can find someone who will want you for you for good.

Best of luck.

d8491prj5boyvg

If you have it in the back of your mind that you're interested in a serious relationship I'd say goodbye. Let her know that's how you feel and say good luck. Don't plead. She might realise what she is missing. If she doesn't want that at all, she'll let you know. You are losing out the option of a FWB by doing that but I think that is for the best. The FWB would be great if you know you will always be able to walk away at any time she decides that the FWB is done. You need to be able to detach emotionally. Maybe I am wrong (and ignore this if I am) but from reading your post I don't think you are in that frame of mind.

joeninety90

simongurnick wrote: »

Keep cool man. You'll scare her off. A shag here and there isn't the worst thing in the world. Also it's not like you met her in a church.

This is good advice. Keep it cool. When I met my other half (we together now over 18 months and madly in love) she told me the first night she didn't want a relationship. We both saw other people on and off and would hook up occasionally but eventually we realised we had deep feelings for each other. So you just never know.

Stay chilled - tell her that's no problem and let's just hand out again some time soon because you both had a good laugh. And then go with the flow.

Good luck!

Rubberchikken

its not a debacle. it was a one off good time.
as others have said you are overthinking this.
speak to someobe about why you do this. it might help with relationships in future.
take care

woodchuck

Mod note:

As the OP hasn't posted here in over a month, I'll lock this thread now.