Cattle dose

390kid

What’s people on here giving there calves as a first dose this year? Have a few yearling heifers to do as well so wudn mind getting one to do all

Kiltris

Dectomax injection. Good value with cover for 11 weeks. Gone completely away from pour on's and especially anything ivermectin based.

390kid

Kiltris wrote: »

Dectomax injection. Good value with cover for 11 weeks. Gone completely away from pour on's and especially anything ivermectin based.

Never trusted the pour ons here only for lice. Did you find they just weren’t working ?

orm0nd

Always give a yellow or a white drench about 4 weeks after turnout. We feel that using a mectin dose early in the year, stock don't build up natural immunity and have very little resistance the following year.

Eventhough all our yearlings are out since February, they have not been dosed and not showing any sign of coughing or stomach worms.

Lady Haywire

Use pour ons here most of the time, had used Ivermectin based pour ons for maybe 8 years ish. Switched to Dectomax last year & noticed the difference in the calves for sure. Must have been some bit of resistance built up!
Will prob try the Dectomax injection this year.

greysides

Kiltris wrote: »

Dectomax injection. Good value with cover for 11 weeks. Gone completely away from pour on's and especially anything ivermectin based.

Eh?

Resistance is family based. Resistance to one is resistance to the others (bar maybe some very minor difference).

greysides

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Switched to Dectomax last year & noticed the difference in the calves for sure. Must have been some bit of resistance built up!

Time to do some FECRTs (before and after testing). By the time you notice resistance clinically, the dose is largely useless, even when in combined products. You need to catch the resistance before it reaches this point and take measures to extend the period of time before the inevitable complete resistance occurs.

The problems of last Spring/Summer seem to have allowed the importance of a report from Teagasc to have been missed.

In short, 16 dairy farms doing calf to beef were checked for resistance. 12 of 16 had resistance to white doses. 16 of 16 had resistance to ivermectins.

That also means 3 of 4 farms had resistance to two out of the three wormer families and can now only rely on the last family (it wasn't reported whether resistance to it was checked) if it works for them. That's the one without persistence or activity against type 2 worms. I wonder how long that dose will remain effective for them..

Lady Haywire

Was that the report on sheep? I do recall one being mentioned in class but thought it was on a sheep farm.
We just got lazy using ivermectin based ones- Noromectin/Closamectin etc so that's why I specifically bought Dectomax last year to see if it made any difference. Now maybe it was wishful thinking or the drier year but certainly seemed to be cleaner bums on the weanlings.

greysides

Definitely not sheep. Its a small sample size but ... 100%.... that's not going to drop to 10% on a bigger sample!
The drier year could have been the answer.... shure, try it again this year...

At this stage, I'd recommend everyone takes a faecal sample 14 days post treatment to check efficacy and do FECRTs if there's doubt. Samples are cheap, doses are expensive, and even more expensive when they don't work.

We are living in a fool's paradise. 96% efficacy is no resistance. 95% is resistance.

Its not a black and white situation until the animals show no visible improvement to dosing and continue to deteriorate. Id say most farms are in the grey area between 95% and a visual lack of response (roughly, 70%). We're in for some awakening when a sizeable proportion of farms start to hit 70%. It will be too late then to eek out any further time. The only time we have is now and if the response to that info is the same generally as amongst my KT clients... we're doomed, I tell you, doomed! (Ref: Private Frazer, Dad's Army)

greysides

390kid wrote: »

What’s people on here giving there calves as a first dose this year? Have a few yearling heifers to do as well so wudn mind getting one to do all

I know it isn't the way it works in practice for most but....

Do you know your stock need dosing? Requirements for this year will be different to last year, for example.
Avoiding unnecessary dosing is one way to try to eek out the remaining time doses will remain effective.

Will you know where the dose you give was effective, or not?

Not just aimed at the OP now. Maybe it should be known.

Resistance is inevitable. It's only a matter of how long is left. There are no new anthelmintics on the horizon to depend on.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2018/TResearch_Summer_2018-web-14.pdf

Essentially there are three anthelminthics,
White (Benzimiddazoles) oral,
Yellow (Levamisole) oral, pour-on, inj and
Macrocyclic lactone (Ivermectin) inj and pour-on.

Any ending in *mectin is derived from Avermectin family.
I will see if I can find the chart online, it probably came from AHI.

The best thing to happen on farms is compulsory recording vet meds and treatments, thereby increasing awareness of products being administered.

Lime Tree Farm

A guide to anthelminthic and flukicide treatments available in Ireland, their efficacy against important stages of parasites and their persistency of action.

https://iasis.ie/Documents/AHIParasiteControlatTurnoutLeaflet2.pdf

The chart referred to in previous post is on the final page of the leaflet.

greysides

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

The best thing to happen on farms is compulsory recording vet meds and treatments, thereby increasing awareness of products being administered.

I think if this issue is to be tackled seriously the best approach would be to make all doses POMs with prescriptions only to be issued on the basis of egg counts and FECRTs.

I'm not sure anyone, vets included, want to see that though, but I suspect it will eventually go to that.

Lime Tree Farm

greysides wrote: »

prescriptions only to be issued on the basis of egg counts and FECRTs.
.

Now that would be some dose – like a hanging – it concentrates the mind wonderfully.

In the past we would have sent samples to the Regional Vet Lab – a wonderful service has been discontinued – which was very reasonably priced.

Have only had one experience of testing since then at an external lab.

For Camplorabacter screen, faecal egg count (Coccidia), salmonella culture x 2 samples,

and faecal egg count, fluke egg screen, salmonella culture x 1 sample.

Was pretty pricey for 3 samples cost €175 (or maybe not if it were to be divided by 9, eg. 3 different tests for each sample)

greysides

I think FECs shouldn't be too expensive. Private labs will always be more expensive. The state labs provide a great service.

orm0nd

Apparently mectin usage and the chemical in Clik is having a detrimental effect on biodiversity.

Lime Tree Farm

greysides wrote: »

The state labs provide a great service.

as well as interesting publications.

In the past I collected copies of these publications from the Regional Vet Lab. The last hard copy that I have is dated 2013.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/laboratoryservices/regionalveterinarylaboratoryreports/

http://www.animalhealthsurveillance.agriculture.gov.ie/publications/

jntsnk

Is there any trials done on the vaccine for lungworm. Any good? I have difficulty eliminating lungworm 4-6 weeks after turnout with all stock. Having to bring them all in and dose takes days and it’s a hassle, so if a vaccine could be administered in the winter house, much easier. This spring was particularly bad with it. Stock age would be just under 2 years

Lime Tree Farm

jntsnk wrote: »

Is there any trials done on the vaccine for lungworm. Any good? I have difficulty eliminating lungworm 4-6 weeks after turnout with all stock. Having to bring them all in and dose takes days and it’s a hassle, so if a vaccine could be administered in the winter house, much easier. This spring was particularly bad with it. Stock age would be just under 2 years

I had a read of this yesterday, it would appear to be a live vaccine, other stock having to be separated from vaccinated stock.


https://www.msd-animal-health.ie/Binaries/Huskvac_Tech_Bulletin_tcm102-94084.pdf

Muckit

orm0nd wrote: »

Apparently mectin usage and the chemical in Clik is having a detrimental effect on biodiversity.

That's a very Interesting point. I am very conscious now of all chemical use on farm. Too easy to say there are no negatives.

390kid

greysides wrote: »

I know it isn't the way it works in practice for most but....

Do you know your stock need dosing? Requirements for this year will be different to last year, for example.
Avoiding unnecessary dosing is one way to try to eek out the remaining time doses will remain effective.

Will you know where the dose you give was effective, or not?

Not just aimed at the OP now. Maybe it should be known.

Resistance is inevitable. It's only a matter of how long is left. There are no new anthelmintics on the horizon to depend on.

Well greysides. I know there was a problem with fluke early on in the year, so I’m going to contact farm lab in elphin tomorrow, I’m nearly sure they do the FECRT. What’s involved with taking the test, just random samples from different animals?

greysides

The lab will give you details but essentially its testing a representative sample of animals prior to dosing and then testing the same animals again a certain period after dosing, then compare the reductions. The 'certain period' varies with the dose being tested. Normaly 10- 15 animals are tested. Another extra that can be done is to check a few animals prior to dosing to ensure the egg count is present and significant enough for the comparison to count.

Simplist thing is to just test after dosing but its open to being undependable for the reason above.