Ryanair - Bike Lost - Any experiences?

KevRossi

Flew back from Munich to Dublin on Saturday night and the bike didn't arrive.

Registered it with the Ryanair desk in DUB and rang a couple of times since. They were very helpful on the phone, said it could take up to a week for Munich to reply, but also that if it isn't on a flight the next day it could be lost for good.

Bike is a Cube One 500W E-Bike, about €2,000 new, only got it last October. Had about €250 of other stuff in the box such as a lock, bike bag, tools etc. Paid a bit less due to Bike to Work etc. Box weighed in at 29.6 Kg

I have all receipts and a full list of what was in the box with the bike.

Also had it insured with https://bicycleinsurance.ie/ but it doesn't mention anything specific about flights. For the flight itself it had no extra insurance on it.

Waiting till next Monday to make a full claim and to see if they find it, not inconvenienced so far as I'm using an older bike for the 15 min commute.

Just wondering if anybody has had a previous experience like this and how did it work out for them? Any tips or advice?

Thanks

Cee-Jay-Cee

I don’t see why you should claim of your own insurance. Ryanair lost it, they should compensate you in full.

C3PO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I don’t see why you should claim of your own insurance. Ryanair lost it, they should compensate you in full.

I don't believe that that's the case - as far as I know there are relatively low upper limits on the value of items lost in transit?

ted1

Lost bags tend do tend to show up

Did they give you the bag code?
Trace it here : https://wtrweb.worldtracer.aero/WTRInternet/wtwflowinternet.do?_flowExecutionKey=_cDBDCC80D-F9D4-95E9-F88C-9CFE5941A97E_k2693FE7F-82C8-F687-5F0C-96C563997E29

Car99

What battery type is in the bike? If it is Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked in luggage. They must be removed and carried as hand luggage. Just in case Munich were worried about that and refused to carry your bike.

Car99

https://www.wideopenmountainbike.com/2018/08/can-i-take-my-electric-bike-ebike-or-emtb-on-a-plane

KevRossi

Car99 wrote: »

What battery type is in the bike? If it is Lithium batteries are not allowed in checked in luggage. They must be removed and carried as hand luggage. Just in case Munich were worried about that and refused to carry your bike.

4th time with the bike on a plane, have asked before and never had an issue, in fact was specifically told that they could not go as hand luggage, that they must go in the hold.

I also notified staff at check in and at the oversize luggage check in that it has a battery in it, I speak fluent German, so no issues there.

Box was checked in well in advance and they would have had plenty of time to flag it with me if there were security issues.

I also know plenty of others who have flown with E-bikes and they had no issues, mine is also the most common Bosch 500 Power Pack.

I think if they had refused to ship it, they would have noted this and the bike would have been found by now, that is not the case.

Ryanair will pay out about €1,400 max according to the Montreal Convention, I was checking with my insurance to see if they would pay the ca. €2,300 replacement cost for the bike and equipment.

KevRossi

There is of course the possibility that different airports implement different guidelines for E-Bikes and batteries of that size, it's something I'm trying to look into, but the fact is that they can't find the bloody bike right now.

Wishbone Ash

Just as an aside, I've travelled many times with my bike and Munich was by far the most fussy regarding security matters. They insisted on opening the bike box, rumaging through it and removing several items which never posed a problem in other airports.

I'd say you bike is stored somewhere in Munich until further notice. What air handler do Ryanair use in Munich? See if you can contact them directly. Are you r contact details with the bike?

CrankyHaus

KevRossi wrote: »

There is of course the possibility that different airports implement different guidelines for E-Bikes and batteries of that size, it's something I'm trying to look into, but the fact is that they can't find the bloody bike right now.

Don't let Ryanair offload the responsibility, effort and worry onto you.
It took your money and took responsibility for your baggage. I'd restrict my efforts to contact with Ryanair, written if possible.



Ryanair policy is that you should report any missing baggage at the Arrivals Desk of your destination airport and they give you a PIR.


http://https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/baggage/damaged-delayed-and-lost-property


Baggage is considered lost after 21 days. Montreal Convention applies a slightly fluctuating max value that's currently around €1,400. An Airline may attempt to assert that your baggage is worth less, in fact I'd expect a lowball offer so have your negotiating hat on.

I wouldn't rely on my own insurance for something like this though it may be useful for topping-up any difference in value between what the airline gives you and what the baggage is worth.

http://https://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/air-travel/baggage/

KevRossi

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Don't let Ryanair offload the responsibility, effort and worry onto you.
It took your money and took responsibility for your baggage. I'd restrict my efforts to contact with Ryanair, written if possible.



Ryanair policy is that you should report any missing baggage at the Arrivals Desk of your destination airport and they give you a PIR.


http://https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/baggage/damaged-delayed-and-lost-property


Baggage is considered lost after 21 days. Montreal Convention applies a slightly fluctuating max value that's currently around €1,400. An Airline may attempt to assert that your baggage is worth less, in fact I'd expect a lowball offer so have your negotiating hat on.

I wouldn't rely on my own insurance for something like this though it may be useful for topping-up any difference in value between what the airline gives you and what the baggage is worth.

http://https://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/air-travel/baggage/

Thanks for that. I followed all those steps, got a claim number off them that night, they actually advised me to claim after 8-10 days if I heard nothing. as it is surely lost by then.

As all the stuff would cost €2,400 to replace, the bike is 8 months, most other gear 1-2 years, I would be looking for the max off them, if not then it's court. Will then look at options of a top up via the bike insurance - if that works.

Still hoping it's just put aside for security reasons and I can get it back some other way.

homer911

Note that Bicycleinsurance.ie wont process any claim in the first 12 months from memory - you need to pay for 12 months, then claim - check the small print

hesker

homer911 wrote: »

Note that Bicycleinsurance.ie wont process any claim in the first 12 months from memory - you need to pay for 12 months, then claim - check the small print

That’s brilliant. An upfront payment equal to 1 year’s premium 12 months in advance.

ED E

Just because you smoked a joint once and weren't instantly arrested doesn't mean its legal. Same goes for baggage handlers/security in airports who are known to miss LOADs.



You have a 500Wh pack. Over 160Wh IATA say:

Must be prepared and carried as cargo in accordance
with the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations

(Note 100Wh to 160Wh can only go in device, no spare packs allowed, not in the hold)



Your eBike can fly but your battery needs to be sent surface or couriered with somebody that can accept dangerous cargo (and you'll pay a premium for that). No airline is meant to accept it.

El Vino

keep us posted, everyones worst nightmare when they fly with an expensive bike.

KevRossi

ED E wrote: »

Just because you smoked a joint once and weren't instantly arrested doesn't mean its legal. Same goes for baggage handlers/security in airports who are known to miss LOADs.



You have a 500Wh pack. Over 160Wh IATA say:

Must be prepared and carried as cargo in accordance
with the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations

(Note 100Wh to 160Wh can only go in device, no spare packs allowed, not in the hold)



Your eBike can fly but your battery needs to be sent surface or couriered with somebody that can accept dangerous cargo (and you'll pay a premium for that). No airline is meant to accept it.

Yeah, this is what I presumed from Monday on, but it was never flagged at the airport after I told them what was in it.

Anyway, the issue right now is that they can't locate the box the bike was in, battery pack or no battery pack.

Also met others on holiday who have flown from Frankfurt and the UK with E-bikes with no issues, but I guess each airport enforces it's own rules.

ED E

Even within one airport you may have two levels of scrutiny.

The airline is required by aviation rules to ensure its not transported, that means their agents in an airport. Within one airport there can be multiple ground handlers.



Overall I just wouldn't. If you need the assist rent at the destination.

KevRossi

Update is that they cannot find it, so they sent me an application form to make a claim. Seems that I'll get no more than €1390, purchase price of all in the box was about €1450, to replace everything would be €2300. I got the bike at a discount as it was a dosplay and test model and I also got €500 on the Bike to Work. So I'm down about €900.

I got through to someone in Ryanair who told me that all lost Ryanair baggage in Europe is transferred to Stanstead, but doubtful that the bike was due to the battery.

Spoke to a mate in Germany who runs tours, he knows a guy who delivers delayed luggage to your house - spoke to him and he might have a chance getting the bike off Lufthansa or another, but Ryanair have unique systems, he also said that theft in Munich airport is rampant and well organised.

There is one other chance to get the bike in early August provided that it hasn't been stolen, it may be put up for auction.

Car99

I'm surprised they'll pay that much even.

Out of interest is there any option for insuring a bike while flying have you found out since?

KevRossi

Car99 wrote: »

I'm surprised they'll pay that much even.

Out of interest is there any option for insuring a bike while flying have you found out since?

Bike is 8 months old, €2000 new, replace bag, lock, tools etc another €350. Weighed in at 30KG so should be near enough to €1390 which is the max. I expect them to lowball me. Will wait and see.

You can insure a bike like any other valuable piece of equipment, we used to fly once a week with about €30,000 of film equipment and it was fully insured. How much it costs and what hoops you have to jump through I do not know.

Car99

KevRossi wrote: »

Car99 wrote: »

I'm surprised they'll pay that much even.

Out of interest is there any option for insuring a bike while flying have you found out since?

Bike is 8 months old, €2000 new, replace bag, lock, tools etc another €350. Weighed in at 30KG so should be near enough to €1390 which is the max. I expect them to lowball me. Will wait and see.

You can insure a bike like any other valuable piece of equipment, we used to fly once a week with about €30,000 of film equipment and it was fully insured. How much it costs and what hoops you have to jump through I do not know.

Just out of interest and for my information I had a look through Ryanair and their SDR fees if you make a special declaration of interest ,for a €50 fee, you can up you lost baggage cover to €2600. Handy to know.

Red Soup

One more anecdote to add to this thread. Don't know if it's useful to you, but may be to others:

Last year myself and two friends flew Dublin - Biarritz with Ryanair to watch the Tour de France with three bikes. One of the lads bikes never arrived. Over the next 10 days he filled in all the forms, Ryanair went through all the similar stuff written in this thread. Then we flew back to Dublin, went to the Ryanair baggage desk in the baggage reclaim area, asked if we could look in the baggage room (there's a large hall adjacent to the baggage reclaim area in T1) just in case it was there. Went into the hall and the bike box was lying up against the bag wall concealed by another box.

Mostly luck, but always push them to allow you to check the baggage hall - in the Winter of 2010 (when the airport was closed due to snow), I found my backpack that they claimed they had lost in the baggage hall, just cast aside.

Best of luck with it.

dastardly00

Any news with finding the bike OP?

KevRossi

dastardly00 wrote: »

Any news with finding the bike OP?

No. They agreed to pay out, how much I do not know, have sent all paperwork in to them.

Will be passing through Munich for work in 2 weeks so will try my luck with them. Intend to offer them something for the charity box if they let me in to have a look around. Worth a shot anyway.

If I can't find it I'll report it to the police in Munich as being stolen, they are fairly efficient at returning good bikes to owners there.

KevRossi

Good news. I found the bike. Currently on the ferry in Calais on the way back.

I'll fill ye in once I'm back in Dublin.

dastardly00

KevRossi wrote: »

Good news. I found the bike. Currently on the ferry in Calais on the way back.

I'll fill ye in once I'm back in Dublin.

Great news!
Sounds like it's a good story :pac:

droidus

It would be a shame if Ryanair didnt know you'd gotten it back and then processed the claim anyway.

A real shame.

KevRossi

What happened is this... I had some work to do in Germany, and booked a ticket a few weeks ago. I would normally fly to Basel or Zurich as it's much nearer the client, but booked Munich as I intended spending a few hours looking for the bike. I only have it since October, but it's one of those bikes that fitted me like a glove and is perfect in every way for me.

On Monday (day before) meeting in Germany was cancelled, but I decided to fly anyway. Flew into Munich at 9.30 and started to ask around. Lost & Found are not responsible, directed me to the lads who deal with oversized bags, they told me to go directly to AHS (Baggage handlers for Ryanair), as did the service desk. The AHS office is in Terminal 1-D on the 2nd floor.

Showed them the paperwork - (I had everything including the purchase receipt for the bike and it's 'log book') - then one guy said that there may be something there, gave me a pass to go airside to Terminal 1-E to have a look for myself. To get there you go through all the checks for baggage, liquids etc. You end out at the end of the very long hall that has all the baggage carousels. Walked around the corner and saw the corner of a box, and I knew straight away it was mine! There were about 100 cases and packages all lined up in a corner, mine obviously the biggest, just sitting there for 2 months with a hand written note on it stating refused because of the battery.

Asked some airport personnel, they didn't give a shlt, said if it's yours, just take it, so I put it on a trolley, and wheeled it out of there, past security and customs, nothing said. Told the guy in AHS, returned the card and took the train into Munich. That simple.

Thing was that when I arrived in the airport I walked within 20m of the bike going through the luggage area. Took 2 hours which included me stopping for some breakfast. Annoying thing is that they never looked for the bike properly, it was the biggest box there and the full description was written in English and German when I filled in the lost luggage form.

Slight serendipity: stopped off at a S-Bahn (DART) station to unpack the box, picked one as there's a recycling centre nearby. Was just unpacking the bike and a local asked me did I need it, he was flying to Cuba in a couple of days with his bike, so he got the box.

Took the train home, few incidents doing that, too many to post here, but got here safe and sound, not a bother on the bike.


What I learned:
Some airports accept batteries on bikes, some don't. There is no official list. From reading other forums most people DHL the battery to the destination and fly the bike.

Take a photo of the bike box (or indeed any suitcase etc.) and keep this in case it gets lost, might encourage the people looking for it to put in some more effort.

Ryanair/AHS in Dublin are desperate, rang the number over 100 times, got through twice. Emails response is slow and haphazard.

Going on the experiences of Red Soup (6 posts above this) and myself, it's easy enough to get into a baggage area in an airport to look for your stuff, the stuff in Munich is dumped on the ground for anybody to just pick up.

If you like your bike, don't give up on it!



TLDR: If Ryanair lose your stuff in Munich, go to the AHS office in Terminal 1-D

Dr_Colossus

KevRossi wrote: »

Annoying thing is that they never looked for the bike properly, it was the biggest box there and the full description was written in English and German when I filled in the lost luggage form.

Fair play, another example of if you want anything done right you have to do it yourself. Hope Ryanair now pays up for loosing your bike and all the hassle/stress having to chase them for even a response.

loyatemu

how much did it cost to get back to Ireland with the bike by train?

KevRossi

loyatemu wrote: »

how much did it cost to get back to Ireland with the bike by train?

I did it the slower and much cheaper way, so about €190. As I was doing this on the spot I couldn't avail of any discounted advance booking spots.

Thalys requires bikes are bagged so I stuck to the non high speed routes.

Munich - Aachen : 'Quer Durchs Land' ticket = €44 + €5.50 for the bike
Aachen - Calais : Standard train ticket with only local, Inter City and Euro City trains = €38 + €5 for the bike
Ferry from Calais - Dover = €35 for myself and the bike together
Dover - Holyhead - Dublin = €62 for Rail Sail including a surcharge for the High Speed link from Dover to London, bike goes free.

KevRossi

If you are doing something similar the best deal is to get an Interrail ticket. For over 26 years of age it starts at €218 for any 3 days in a month and you can just pay a surcharge for the Eurostar/TGV etc.

loyatemu

did you consider coming back with Ryanair? :pac:

KevRossi

loyatemu wrote: »

did you consider coming back with Ryanair? :pac:

Yes, for about 0.003 seconds.


Ryanair same day travel was about €320 + €60 for the bike + €20 to DHL to ship the battery. Or thereabouts.

I wasn't being separated from the bike after all that. I would have taken it to bed with me when I got back, I was that happy to get it again, but such things are frowned upon.

BTW I had a 3 hour layover in Cologne train station from about 2.00 am to 4.50 am. Well worth doing if you're interested in people watching, some seriously 'interesting' people there. Or just down the road is the equivalent of Temple Bar. An Irish guy showing up with a bike at 3 a.m. to a bar is guaranteed to get people chatting to you.

CantGetNoSleep

What happened with the trains?

Do Ryanair know you found it yet?

KevRossi

droidus wrote: »

It would be a shame if Ryanair didnt know you'd gotten it back and then processed the claim anyway.

A real shame.

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Do Ryanair know you found it yet?

So, final chapter in this saga: Ryanair paid me out yesterday; €1399.81.

Once they said in July that they had given up on the bike then it was legally up to me to salvage it if I wanted, this is allowed in insurance payouts as the bike was considered 'lost'.

AHS the baggage company are aware that I found it, not sure if they informed Ryanair, they seem to have very poor communications with each other.

They can claim the money off me if they wish and I am happy to pay them back, but my own recovery bill will amount to €1400, so no point them trying.

Incidentally the stuff in Munich airport is auctioned once it's marked as unclaimed or lost for 365 days, there's a video (in German) of it here.

It's held in a beer tent (look at all the beer on the tables) and this is in Landshut, about 40 Km from the airport. Oddly enough the auctioneer is the father of a comedian called Michael Mittermeier, my ex-GF in Germany used to share an apartment with him around 1990.

for e-bikes and other stuff with large batteries going fwd I would not risk it.

strange that the comms is so bad that there is no system to get the info back to the airline that is was refused.

KevRossi

glasso wrote: »

for e-bikes and other stuff with large batteries going fwd I would not risk it.

strange that the comms is so bad that there is no system to get the info back to the airline that is was refused.

From reading up on German forums people send the battery by DHL to their destination a couple of days in advance, they hold the battery for 14 days, they have 24 hour boxes sites like Parcel Motel all around Europe.

About €20 each way, depending on the destination. Some airports let them through, but not officially. 160W is the max permissable size at the moment.

magicbastarder

KevRossi wrote: »

They can claim the money off me if they wish and I am happy to pay them back, but my own recovery bill will amount to €1400, so no point them trying.

my gut reaction would be; if ryanair don't make enough of an effort to recover your bike, they pay up. what happens the bike after that, regardless of who gets their hands on it, is no longer their business. they can't claim to care about who got the bike weeks after they didn't try.