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Better Airport - North side bus connections?

  • 18-06-2019 8:05am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    What surprised me in the new BusConnect plans is that there weren't many new bus routes to the Airport for some reason. Many areas on the northside have a very bad connection to the airport, why is there for example not a bus route such as I have drawn in the map connecting donaghmede to Swords, then via the Airport and Ballymun to Blanchardstown?

    All of these areas have very poor connections to the Airport currently, requiring a bus transfer, a very convoluted bus route (102 all the way via Malahide to the Airport) or some even have no connection at all requiring private transport or a taxi. Even if a bus like this would only run once per hour it would already improve connections in the area a lot. It could also replace the current 43 bus which also only runs once per hour.

    https://imgur.com/a/S0i5rAK


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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Well under BusConnets, there will be the proposed 60 route from Donaghmede - Malahide - Swords - Airport

    And of course there is the proposed orbital route, the N8 orbital route from Donaghmede to Charlestown Shopping Center, which interchanges with the A2/A4 which would bring you to the airport with one change.

    From Donagmede to Blanchardstown, you could do N8 to A2/A4 to N4, 3 changes, so not great, but all relatively frequent services.

    A2/A4 about every 10 minutes if not better.
    N8 and N4 every 10 to 15 minutes
    60 every 30 mins


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    bk wrote: »
    Well under BusConnets, there will be the proposed 60 route from Donaghmede - Malahide - Swords - Airport

    And of course there is the proposed orbital route, the N8 orbital route from Donaghmede to Charlestown Shopping Center, which interchanges with the A2/A4 which would bring you to the airport with one change.

    From Donagmede to Blanchardstown, you could do N8 to A2/A4 to N4, 3 changes, so not great, but all relatively frequent services.

    A2/A4 about every 10 minutes if not better.
    N8 and N4 every 10 to 15 minutes
    60 every 30 mins

    60 bus takes ages as it follows the current 102, but at least it's better than nothing. It won't run the entire current 102 route all of the time by the way.

    Donaghmede to Blanch in 3 changes is really not good enough, there needs to be a more direct route such as the current 17a.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    bk wrote: »
    Well under BusConnets, there will be the proposed 60 route from Donaghmede - Malahide - Swords - Airport

    And of course there is the proposed orbital route, the N8 orbital route from Donaghmede to Charlestown Shopping Center, which interchanges with the A2/A4 which would bring you to the airport with one change.

    From Donagmede to Blanchardstown, you could do N8 to A2/A4 to N4, 3 changes, so not great, but all relatively frequent services.

    A2/A4 about every 10 minutes if not better.
    N8 and N4 every 10 to 15 minutes
    60 every 30 mins

    Will these be running at the times staff want to get to or from the Airport?


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    Will these be running at the times staff want to get to or from the Airport?
    Probably not but at least they're gonna have the 41 running 24/7 by the end of this year (hopefully), so presumably more people will become able to bike to the nearest 41 stop and hop onto the bus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭ thomasj


    There are many benefits to having a frequent bus service from Blanchardstown to Swords via Navan Road, Broombridge , Cabra , Finglas , Glasnevin, Ballymun, Santry and Airport.

    One bus route , that's all it takes. Why make it so difficult.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,286 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    What we need is a plan to implement a complete review of all routes, a simplification of the system and better interchange potential, if only there were some plan somewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    Its madness that the 140 finishes at IKEA from where you can see planes landing and taking off but you cant get there via PT. A simple extension of that route into the airport would give thousands on the northside and southside another option to get to the airport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,286 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Certainly the lack of connectivity between Ballymun and the airport is an annoyance, one which BusConnects seems to have worsened with the removal of service from St Margaret's


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Certainly the lack of connectivity between Ballymun and the airport is an annoyance, one which BusConnects seems to have worsened with the removal of service from St Margaret's

    Which service do you mean from St.Margarets the infrequent 40b? I believe the NTA are reviewing the service in that area with the look to replacing it maybe a local link or a service similar to the 139 which is already proposed to replace the 41b in Rolestown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,286 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Which service do you mean from St.Margarets the infrequent 40b? I believe the NTA are reviewing the service in that area with the look to replacing it maybe a local link or a service similar to the 139 which is already proposed to replace the 41b in Rolestown.

    The 4, 83/a, 13, 27b and 40b that serve the area south of the airport will be gone without replacement post bus connects.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Should extend one of the routes that terminates in Harristown to the Airport. The 4 would probably be the best bet as it takes the most direct route through Ballymun and would act as a link to the Airport from Ballymun. The 13 is less direct and seems to be more of a community route serving Ballymun rather than more direct like the 4 or the 155 now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The 4, 83/a, 13, 27b and 40b that serve the area south of the airport will be gone without replacement post bus connects.

    To say that they're gone completely without a replacement is a bit of an exaggeration as the original map is only a draft that has gone out to public consultation and will almost certainly be changed. Also the only reason most of those serve the area south of the Airport is so they can break easily in Harristown Garage for the convenience of DB and their staff.

    I'm not saying that area doesn't need any services at all but would say at the moment it is over served due to the presence of the depot. It's mostly industrial premises and not a lot of people live there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    Are there any private bus services serving Lucan and Blanch to the airport or are they forced to get one DB into An Lar and another out?

    Its a no brainer to extend a Harristown depot route into the airport but what is preventing it? Is it something the NTA or DAA dont want for some reason?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,286 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Are there any private bus services serving Lucan and Blanch to the airport or are they forced to get one DB into An Lar and another out?

    Its a no brainer to extend a Harristown depot route into the airport but what is preventing it? Is it something the NTA or DAA dont want for some reason?

    The airport hopper provides this service, DB/the NTA have no interest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Are there any private bus services serving Lucan and Blanch to the airport or are they forced to get one DB into An Lar and another out?

    Its a no brainer to extend a Harristown depot route into the airport but what is preventing it? Is it something the NTA or DAA dont want for some reason?

    Airport hopper runs from Maynooth and Lucan to the Airport not sure about Blanch don't think it has a bus to the airport


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The airport hopper provides this service, DB/the NTA have no interest.

    Thats the bizarre part to me, surely it is their remit to provide the airport with the best connectivity possible. Its mad that you can get a direct bus to the airport from Cork or Belfast but the couple of hundred thousand people living in D11 and D15 cannot do the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Thats the bizarre part to me, surely it is their remit to provide the airport with the best connectivity possible. Its mad that you can get a direct bus to the airport from Cork or Belfast but the couple of hundred thousand people living in D11 and D15 cannot do the same.

    But DB or the NTA don't have an interest in providing a bus service to Cork or Belfast either they are all commercial privateley operated services


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,710 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Airport hopper runs from Maynooth and Lucan to the Airport not sure about Blanch don't think it has a bus to the airport

    And Leixlip.

    Half hourly service now from 4am to 1pm Monday to Friday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭ thomasj


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Are there any private bus services serving Lucan and Blanch to the airport or are they forced to get one DB into An Lar and another out?

    Yeah there's no service from D15 to the Airport. 20 minutes down the road in Ratoath has a 24 hour a day service to the Airport and the City.

    The crazy irony is that both Swords Express and Express Bus which service areas near the Airport have their depots in Dublin 15 .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    thomasj wrote: »
    There are many benefits to having a frequent bus service from Blanchardstown to Swords via Navan Road, Broombridge , Cabra , Finglas , Glasnevin, Ballymun, Santry and Airport.

    One bus route , that's all it takes. Why make it so difficult.

    I'm not sure if it really needs to serve Broombridge or Cabra as it would make it take longer and overlap with the 40e perhaps a more direct route from Blanchardstown to Finglas similar to the 17a would be more logical. It would also be handy if it continued on to Swords after the Airport.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    thomasj wrote: »
    Yeah there's no service from D15 to the Airport. 20 minutes down the road in Ratoath has a 24 hour a day service to the Airport and the City.

    The crazy irony is that both Swords Express and Express Bus which service areas near the Airport have their depots in Dublin 15 .

    It's ridiculous that such a little village has better service to the airport than Blanchardstown.

    To be honest, I think the culprit preventing better airport service is the Airport itself rather than Dublin Bus, I think there is some corruption involved in that they take extra money from taxi fares into the airport. Does anyone know if that is true?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭ Qrt


    machaseh wrote: »
    It's ridiculous that such a little village has better service to the airport than Blanchardstown.

    To be honest, I think the culprit preventing better airport service is the Airport itself rather than Dublin Bus, I think there is some corruption involved in that they take extra money from taxi fares into the airport. Does anyone know if that is true?

    If that was true, then I'd imagine they'd be resisting MetroLink with an iron fist, considering that has the potential to wipe out taxi fares to the CC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭ Qrt


    machaseh wrote: »
    Donaghmede to Blanch in 3 changes is really not good enough, there needs to be a more direct route such as the current 17a.

    Could always get the DART from Donaghmede and then the N4 at Killester. Though, as a southsider, I don't know it very well, and I think Howth Junction and Donaghmede is in Kilbarrack moreso than Donaghmede?

    Anyway, the whole BusConnects thing is going to shatter all our habits and make us reimagine getting around Dublin, if it happens in anyway near its current form.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    machaseh wrote: »
    It's ridiculous that such a little village has better service to the airport than Blanchardstown.

    To be honest, I think the culprit preventing better airport service is the Airport itself rather than Dublin Bus, I think there is some corruption involved in that they take extra money from taxi fares into the airport. Does anyone know if that is true?

    I dont think they are making major money off taxis, the head of the DAA was on the radio a few days back and he said the charge for a taxi permit at the airport is just over a euro a day. He said they are having major problems getting enough taxis to work the airport at the right times.

    Id imagine the DAA charge bus companies permits too so its in their interest to allow them in. DB seem to have decided that D11 and D15 are not worth a direct airport service even though the 140 terminates just a few kilometres from the airport and could easily be extended into it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭ XPS_Zero


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The airport hopper provides this service, DB/the NTA have no interest.



    Which is the way it was on ALL routes, filled with obvious gaps, until Aircoach came in and started the ball rolling.




    cgcsb wrote: »
    What we need is a plan to implement a complete review of all routes, a simplification of the system and better interchange potential, if only there were some plan somewhere.


    BUT as long as the 6 blind people on one of the routes are not inconvenienced in a way the newspapers can't quite explain, and as long as it still passes into my meandering estate adding 15 minutes to the journey, and as long as I don't have to learn any new routes, and as long as I never have to change busses, and....


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I dont think they are making major money off taxis, the head of the DAA was on the radio a few days back and he said the charge for a taxi permit at the airport is just over a euro a day. He said they are having major problems getting enough taxis to work the airport at the right times.

    Id imagine the DAA charge bus companies permits too so its in their interest to allow them in. DB seem to have decided that D11 and D15 are not worth a direct airport service even though the 140 terminates just a few kilometres from the airport and could easily be extended into it.

    So DB decides where to run routes and where not, and not the government in any way? This all just seems like a 'we can't be bothered' attitude for a problem that would be very easy to fix. The government should have demands for the minimal service of important places such as the Airport. But yeah as long as nobody cares enough everyone who doesn't live in central dublin will still have to take a taxi to the airport I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ machaseh


    Qrt wrote: »
    If that was true, then I'd imagine they'd be resisting MetroLink with an iron fist, considering that has the potential to wipe out taxi fares to the CC.

    Well, the metrolink is exactly the kind of transportation that they can ask extra money for, just like they are already doing for the 747/757 bus (if I'm not mistaken those are run by dublin bus right?), so they wouldn't need the taxi fares coming in. Besides that still many people will go by taxi by choice simply because they prefer it (often I see American tourists going everywhere by taxi) and if they still don't make service to anywhere other than the city centre then all those people will still have to go by taxi despite metrolink.


  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭ XPS_Zero


    machaseh wrote: »
    So DB decides where to run routes and where not, and not the government in any way? This all just seems like a 'we can't be bothered' attitude for a problem that would be very easy to fix. The government should have demands for the minimal service of important places such as the Airport. But yeah as long as nobody cares enough everyone who doesn't live in central dublin will still have to take a taxi to the airport I guess.


    The govt has the power to do basically anything it wants, within bounds of reason. 90% of the time you hear them saying they don't have the power to do something they are lying or misleading you. Examples: Fitzgerald said she could not interfere with the cops at the Tribunal when she found out their lawyer was gonna attack the whistleblower, the Garda Siochana Act allows the minister to give any order to the guards and requires them to follow it. It's a convention that they not be micromanaged, not a law.


    Leo said (re the banks mortgage fraud) "if you think theres been fraud go to the Guards, politicians don't prosecute people and I wouldn't wanna live in a country where they could". This was an especially disingenuous way of dodging the issue. The average joe would not understand enough about finance, and neither would the cops, to prove this fraud. You'd have to have a team of people who worked in the industry, then have them deliver a file to the DPP. He was right that they don't actually prosecute (the DPP on behalf of the AG does that technically, the DPP is independent to prevent politically motivated prosecutions like you get in the US with the elected DA's eg Central Park 5 case) but they can order investigations and change the law.


    The NTA has all sorts of powers and can be given more with a change in law or a stroke of a pen under a ministerial order. You gotta understand though most politicos who are at ministerial level have not seen public transport outside a photo op in 20+ years, they've been in their cars all that time. The people who advise them are in cars too. So nobody is bothering to look at this and see what's missing.


    ...and when someone does (re BusConnects) the very people it's meant to help rip it apart through their own ignorance of what it involves and pandering politicians help them on their way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    And Leixlip.

    Half hourly service now from 4am to 1pm Monday to Friday.

    Not sure it's going to last. Very lightly patronised, considering it's a minibus.

    Anyone I know in Confey (myself included) gets the train to Drumcondra and the 41/16/Aircoach or carry on to Connolly and get the 747/757 from Busarus.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭ Ha Long Bay


    I contacted a local politician to see about getting a connection between D11 and the airport. This is what the NTA sent back.

    "Currently, there are no plans to extend the Route 140 service to the airport and while we plan to introduce 24-hour services on a number of Routes later this year, starting with Route 41, Route 140 has not been selected for this service at this stage. We will consider these requests in future plans and as Dublin Bus works closely with the National Transport Authority (NTA) in relation to our service provision we will discuss your requests with the NTA also.”

    No idea how the 41 going 24 hours helps in any way.


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