Have not seen my daughter in 12 years

The Darkroom

12 years ago whilst back home in Ireland my girlfriend at the time left me. My daughter was just 8 months old and I have not seen her nor had contact with her since. I tried contacting the mother in 2010 but was told I'm just a biological father and mean nothing. The law in Scotland says that Fathers have absolutely no rights so there's nothing I can do about all this.

It does psychologically affect me and I'm wonder if I have some form of depression or something because of it. Thankfully I don't drink or do drugs so never turned to those but I'm wondering does anyone have any advice on how to deal with a loss like this? It feels like I'm grieving the death of someone every day.

Another day

That's tough. However I think you should try again and again. Can you write a letter to your daughter just letting her know you are thinking of her and are always there should she ever need you?

For yourself, I would try counselling, talk it through with a impartial person and work through your thoughts and options. Writing is therapy so maybe write, even if you don't post it, a letter, or keep a diary, detailing your life, thoughts, what you think she might be like or milestones you've missed. Just so when she does come looking she'll know you cared and didn't forget her. Keep copies of any letters you do send her so she knows you tried.

Westwood

Reality is when you broke up you should have had visits every week or once a month if living in a different country...

seamus

Forget whatever googling you've done or whatever armchair experts you've spoken to.

Employ the services of a Scottish-based family law solicitor and have a talk to them. Even if it's just a single hour-long consultation.

Unfortunately it may not be good news for you, but you should have someone who can lay out your actual options, and not a load of half-guesses from forums online.

Like most of Europe, the courts put the best interests of the child above all else. Often the right to know a parent outweighs quite a bit. However, if the mother has moved on and her new partner has been the child's father for most of her life, the court may view your presence as needlessly disruptive.

But, the right of a child to know their biological parentage is usually right up the top of the list of priorities. So get yourself the right legal representation. Don't just sit back and resign this as a lost cause.

One thing to consider is that this child is not lost to you forever. Once she turns 18, her mother cannot do anything to prevent you contacting her. So there is light. Even in the event that a legal professional cannot help you, in 5-6 years time, a whole new world of opportunities opens up.

I would recommend getting a counselor too. Ideally someone with good experience of dealing with broken families, absent parents or children. They can advise you on coping mechanisms - e.g. writing regular letters to your daughter, that you can give to her when she turns 18.

You sound like someone who has just given up based on what the mother and Google has told you. Don't. You don't have to lie down and accept this.

Xterminator

Op

send a card to let her know she is in your thoughts. every birthday, christmas, and holiday. it is possible but unlikely the mother will throw them out.

When she gets older she will wonder if you even think of her. Prove you do.

zapper55

Op Seamus's advice is excellent.

Sending a card now after 12 years of no.contact could do more damage than good. You need to have a proper plan not just crumbs here and there

Xterminator

Explaining why you didn't send a card after 18 years will be a tougher conversation.

LegacyUser

Well, as another poster said, get actual legal advice from a qualified family law solicitor and find out what your rights are.

However, before you go charging in, really think about whether you dropping out of the sky and into your child's life is the best thing for them. You are the biological father, but you are also a complete stranger. Your child may not wish to know you, and they are old enough to express this to the court should it get there.

Did you fight at all to stay a part of your child's life? If not, why not? You don't have to give answers here, but think about it and be honest with yourself.

I just hope you're thinking beyond yourself here, it can't be just about what you want.

OS120

OP, unless the law is Scotland has changed dramatically in the last few years - since i went through the Scottish courts to secure firstly contact and then residence - you've been sold a load of old bollox.

you need to contact a Scottish Solicitor dealing in Family Law, they may offer 30 minutes for free or you may have to pay for it - however in broad terms the Solicitor will raise a petition in the local Sherrif Court, the Mother will respond, the court will appoint another solicitor who will talk to both the mother and the child (seperately), as well as you. that solicitor will write a report on the various feelings and situations, and make a recommendation to the Court as to how the situation should proceed.

either party can agree or disagree, but they'd have to have a very good argument to substantively overturn the recommendations of the court appointed solicitor.

the court will be guided by the best interests of the child. normally the court takes a principled view that its its in the best interests of the child to have a relationship and contact with both parents, and for those parents to jointly, and co-operatively provide the child with the parental relationships that children are entitled to. neither parent has rights, merely responsibilities. if the mother and child are settled, the mother opposes contact, the child opposes contact - and at 12, the court will place a great deal of weight on the childs views - then the court is not going to attempt to force a 12 year old girl to meet someone she doesn't want to meet.

YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT CONTACT THE CHILD. it would be distressing for the child, and the court will take a very dim view of it.

you can contact the mother, in writing. be polite, be respectful, be understanding and be constructive. you can ask for news of the child, you can ask if the mother would consider facilitating contact - which would be written at first - if she says no then you need to speak to a solicitor, or just back off. once she tell you that she does not want you to contact her again, you must stop. thats the law in Scotland, and breaking it will not help you in court.

to a very large extent any legal action would depend on whether a) your name is on the childs birth certificate (get a copy, they are public documents, and they cost about £12), and b) whether you have supporting evidence to show that you had a relationship with the child as a baby - so pictures of you and the baby, ideally with the mother and all looking like happy families.

without that you've no chance - no Scottish Court is going to order, and compel, a 12 year old girl to take a DNA test and then force her to have contact with someone she doesn't want to have contact with.

The Darkroom

OS120 wrote: »

OP, unless the law is Scotland has changed dramatically in the last few years - since i went through the Scottish courts to secure firstly contact and then residence - you've been sold a load of old bollox.

you need to contact a Scottish Solicitor dealing in Family Law, they may offer 30 minutes for free or you may have to pay for it - however in broad terms the Solicitor will raise a petition in the local Sherrif Court, the Mother will respond, the court will appoint another solicitor who will talk to both the mother and the child (seperately), as well as you. that solicitor will write a report on the various feelings and situations, and make a recommendation to the Court as to how the situation should proceed.

either party can agree or disagree, but they'd have to have a very good argument to substantively overturn the recommendations of the court appointed solicitor.

the court will be guided by the best interests of the child. normally the court takes a principled view that its its in the best interests of the child to have a relationship and contact with both parents, and for those parents to jointly, and co-operatively provide the child with the parental relationships that children are entitled to. neither parent has rights, merely responsibilities. if the mother and child are settled, the mother opposes contact, the child opposes contact - and at 12, the court will place a great deal of weight on the childs views - then the court is not going to attempt to force a 12 year old girl to meet someone she doesn't want to meet.

YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT CONTACT THE CHILD. it would be distressing for the child, and the court will take a very dim view of it.

you can contact the mother, in writing. be polite, be respectful, be understanding and be constructive. you can ask for news of the child, you can ask if the mother would consider facilitating contact - which would be written at first - if she says no then you need to speak to a solicitor, or just back off. once she tell you that she does not want you to contact her again, you must stop. thats the law in Scotland, and breaking it will not help you in court.

to a very large extent any legal action would depend on whether a) your name is on the childs birth certificate (get a copy, they are public documents, and they cost about £12), and b) whether you have supporting evidence to show that you had a relationship with the child as a baby - so pictures of you and the baby, ideally with the mother and all looking like happy families.

without that you've no chance - no Scottish Court is going to order, and compel, a 12 year old girl to take a DNA test and then force her to have contact with someone she doesn't want to have contact with.

I've listened to everyone and I agree that I'd be too nervous about destroying the psychological well being of my daughter at this stage. I honestly don't think it's a good idea.

Years ago I was told by my girlfriend at the time not to come back and that was that. I wasn't prepared financially to go back therefore and sustain myself on my own in Scotland and carry on living next door. I was willing to at least try to fly over every now and again and stay in contact but she didn't even want this.

I decided it was in the best interests of everyone to humbly back off as I don't press myself upon anyone but I was told anyway that fathers have no rights in Scotland. Yet recently I was informed that use to be the case until 2006 (a year before my daughter was born) when a new law came into effect.

I'm not good with law stuff and have only ever been in court once in my life and that was just to comfort another person in the small claims court.

I remember being present at the birth certificate. They put her name, her middle name and then my surname and lastly my girlfriends surname all on the one line. Is it possible for them to remove this? I don't know how to obtain a copy whilst here in Ireland.

All the photos of me and my daughter are kept by the old girlfriends mother. I have one photograph I keep that was taken by the photographer who does the rounds in the hospital that I keep with me and a larger copy sent by the mother in law. I also have pictures of the child she sent me shortly after the break up but I'm not in them. I am also on the electoral record that we lived in the same house in the same year she was born if that helps?

I'm not sure contact is a good idea. Maybe I should wait 5 years. It will fly by surely?

OS120

The mother of the child can have the name changed, but she can't have the original record destroyed - so if the child was registered with your surname there will be a copy of the original birth certificate held by the Registrar.

Google 'birth certificate Scotland', that will get you on the right road - you can order a copy either online or over the phone.

What you do about it is up to you, but I would advise talking to a Scottish family law solicitor about the options, chances of success etc... To help you make your decision. They may well end up suggesting to you that you forget about it, but they may not.

Neyite

I've no comment on the legal side of things other than to say you need to get actual legal advice rather than listening to armchair experts.


But what I would suggest is to get a journal. And say what you'd like to say to your daughter in it. If you are thinking of her on her birthday, or at Christmas jot the date down and write the ways that she's on your mind. If you go somewhere that you wish she was there with you, write it down. Describe the older relatives that she never got to meet and why they'd have loved her.

It could be something very precious to her down the line when you do meet someday and a way to show her that you did love her and thought of her often.

LegacyUser

OP looking at your posts you have other children, do you know if your ex has had anymore children? It's a larger impact all around for your daughter if she has half siblings on top of a biological dad to meet. It can be a bigger physiological impact on her if she feels you valued your other children over her. As others have said you need to thread careful, write letters or a journal etc that you can show her if she contacts you when she turns 18 to show you were thinking of her and wanted to be part of her life. I agree with others you shouldn't push massively hard to contact her now, do try and contact the mother and she what her feeling is on it but the mental well being of the child should be primary concern.

The Darkroom

Am I able to get a birth cert even though I'm not connected to the child, will they give me one?

Dial Hard

The Darkroom wrote: »

Am I able to get a birth cert even though I'm not connected to the child, will they give me one?

I mean this in the nicest possible way, OP, but these are really questions you need to be asking a solicitor in Scotland, not randomers on the internet in Ireland.

OS120

The Darkroom wrote: »

Am I able to get a birth cert even though I'm not connected to the child, will they give me one?

Under UK - and Scottish - law a birth certificate is a public document. Absolutely anyone can buy a copy of absolutely anyone elses.

You presumably know the name the child was registered with, the date and location of her birth, and where she was registered - Google that office and ring them. The certificate should take a week to arrive.

ItAintMeBabe

The Darkroom wrote: »

12 years ago whilst back home in Ireland my girlfriend at the time left me. My daughter was just 8 months old and I have not seen her nor had contact with her since. I tried contacting the mother in 2010 but was told I'm just a biological father and mean nothing. The law in Scotland says that Fathers have absolutely no rights so there's nothing I can do about all this.

It does psychologically affect me and I'm wonder if I have some form of depression or something because of it. Thankfully I don't drink or do drugs so never turned to those but I'm wondering does anyone have any advice on how to deal with a loss like this? It feels like I'm grieving the death of someone every day.

Op, just wondering other than now and an attempt in 2010 did you make any other effort to see your child? If not, why?

Having been the child of a parent who left and didn't make any significant effort of making contact for a long time, you need to thread carefully. As another poster said crumbs here or there is no good, you need to be 100% committed to it now.

ILoveYourVibes

The Darkroom wrote: »

12 years ago whilst back home in Ireland my girlfriend at the time left me. My daughter was just 8 months old and I have not seen her nor had contact with her since. I tried contacting the mother in 2010 but was told I'm just a biological father and mean nothing. The law in Scotland says that Fathers have absolutely no rights so there's nothing I can do about all this.

It does psychologically affect me and I'm wonder if I have some form of depression or something because of it. Thankfully I don't drink or do drugs so never turned to those but I'm wondering does anyone have any advice on how to deal with a loss like this? It feels like I'm grieving the death of someone every day.

.Firstly..DONT JUDGE YOURSELF TOO HARSHLY.
I don't know what you have been through. I don't know what her mother was like. The emotions you describe make it clear you do love your daughter. It must be very hard.
I am really sorry for your situation.

Secondly she is not dead. Thankfully.

If i were you ....i would make it so i am always ready to be there when she needs or reaches out at the drop of hat. I would put my own feelings aside.

I would be there in what way she needs me. I would also prepare myself for any feelings she might have against me. I would not argue with those feelings. I would just accept them.

I would also look at myself and ask seriously why I was not there. How i contributed at least half to the relationship break down with her mother. And why her mother declined to rely on me for any parental support. How did i contribute to the breakdown in that co parent relationship?

I would not do the above to feel bad about myself. But just to learn and grow and be better.

I would also not judge her mother. And I would always attempt to approach them in a non aggressive non judgemental loving way. I would keep this attitude regardless of what happens.

I would try to leave the lines of communication open.

I would also seek counseling.

I would try not to be angry or bitter.



And live your life ..have new relationships without fear. Consider starting a family or getting yourself into a position where you can support one fully.

Lead a full life. And leave a space in it for your daughter so sometime in the future she feels warm there.

The Darkroom

The Darkroom wrote: »

I'm not sure contact is a good idea. Maybe I should wait 5 years. It will fly by surely?

Seriously? You don't seem very committed to even trying to make contact.
What will you say to her when she is 18, I thought about contacting you once or twice but didn't?
You should also expect some hard questions from her if you do contact each other.
You have to be 100% committed to this, or don't even start.

ManOfMystery

Totally agree with bubblypop. 5 years might fly past for you, for a child it will be yet another long period with an absent parent.

I'm a bit confused by your initial post tbh. You say you are psychologically affected by this and it feels like grieving the death of someone, but only mention one attempt at getting in contact in 2010 and then cite various reasons why you never tried again. And now you're suggesting that maybe you could wait another '5 years'.

I'm not suggesting this isn't a big issue for you, but I do feel like you're not being assertive and focused enough here. No-one knows what tomorrow brings, you may not even be around in 5 years and this chance will be missed. You are her father, you have rights, and I would go immediately to a solicitor to explore every legal option available to allow you to become part of your daughter's life and get to know her. This time is precious and so much of it has already been wasted - before you know it she will be grown up, and maybe having a life and partner of her own. It will be even harder to build any kind of bonds then.

Graces7

OP[ please be careful for her sake. find out first if she even knows you exist and what she has been told about you.Take any contact very slowly.

My own father was awol more years than 12 and when he suddenly reappeared as if he owned me it was a traumatic experience .. a stranger walking in and saying, " I am your father."

Think about her please?

The fact his gf told you to leave and you just said OK after having a baby kind of sums that up. Most people would not leave, and most girlfriends wouldn't dream of wanting you to leave. I feel there is a lot missing from your story that would be relevant here to give any useful advice.

Graces7

The Darkroom wrote: »

I've listened to everyone and I agree that I'd be too nervous about destroying the psychological well being of my daughter at this stage. I honestly don't think it's a good idea.

Years ago I was told by my girlfriend at the time not to come back and that was that. I wasn't prepared financially to go back therefore and sustain myself on my own in Scotland and carry on living next door. I was willing to at least try to fly over every now and again and stay in contact but she didn't even want this.

I decided it was in the best interests of everyone to humbly back off as I don't press myself upon anyone but I was told anyway that fathers have no rights in Scotland. Yet recently I was informed that use to be the case until 2006 (a year before my daughter was born) when a new law came into effect.

I'm not good with law stuff and have only ever been in court once in my life and that was just to comfort another person in the small claims court.



All the photos of me and my daughter are kept by the old girlfriends mother. I have one photograph I keep that was taken by the photographer who does the rounds in the hospital that I keep with me and a larger copy sent by the mother in law. I also have pictures of the child she sent me shortly after the break up but I'm not in them. I am also on the electoral record that we lived in the same house in the same year she was born if that helps?

I'm not sure contact is a good idea. Maybe I should wait 5 years. It will fly by surely?

And then?

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact his gf told you to leave and you just said OK after having a baby kind of sums that up. Most people would not leave, and most girlfriends wouldn't dream of wanting you to leave. I feel there is a lot missing from your story that would be relevant here to give any useful advice.

stirring all kinds of memories here. My father had a way of not being around for years then suddenly coming back into my life as if he had been a father to me. i
Takes constancy and work to be a father. and commitment

rondog

OP-Why now do you want to be in your daughtrs life?
As another poster said unless you are 100% fully committed to being in her life then just leave it.As sad as it sounds,she probably has an established life wihtout you and if you plan on intermittently being part of her life than dont.
i have a daughter and the Bond we have is unbelievable.I couldnt love anything more.We do everything together.The thoughts of her not being in my life are crushing.
I would advise you to go for it and not look back ,do everything you can to have her in your life and just hope she wants to be.

Neyite

You'll do more damage by going into her life then leaving again. She needs to either has a dad she's now (and forever more) in contact with and a constant in her life or she has no bio dad in her life at all.

So you have to be sure before you make contact - there's no going back. Well there is but you would be the biggest dickhead in the world to half-heartedly let your child get to know you, get her hopes up, only to feck off again on a lame excuse.

Any child I know who's had a father who was half-hearted and flakey that came and went out of their lives have all ended up having major issues.


So be 100% sure that you want her in your life - and that you won't bail again.

BrokenArrows

In my opinion you should try and open communication with the mother. Tell her that you would like a relationship with your daughter. Supply all your contact information etc. Ask if its ok to send her cards and presents for birthdays and christmas.

Your daughter is approaching an age where she will be thinking independently and be asking her mother about her father and if the mother has all your details and you have shown that you want to reach out it would make things a lot easier if she eventually agrees to allow communication between you both.

However after 12 years, legally forcing visitation on your daughter might not go down very well. I dont think you should go down this route. At least not until you spend a significant amount of time communicating your wishes to her mother.

Separately since you will have been legally responsible for child maintenance payments since the childs birth you should really seek out legal advice. If the mother wishes she might be able to start asking you for money.

Graces7

Neyite wrote: »

You'll do more damage by going into her life then leaving again. She needs to either has a dad she's now (and forever more) in contact with and a constant in her life or she has no bio dad in her life at all.

So you have to be sure before you make contact - there's no going back. Well there is but you would be the biggest dickhead in the world to half-heartedly let your child get to know you, get her hopes up, only to feck off again on a lame excuse.

Any child I know who's had a father who was half-hearted and flakey that came and went out of their lives have all ended up having major issues.


So be 100% sure that you want her in your life - and that you won't bail again.

Great post. Since I read this thread all kinds of memories drifting to the surface.... Like the time my mostly absent father wrote to me "offering a home" when what he really wanted was someone to clean and cook for him. Oh I could keep my existing friends by the way!

After years of silence... Does nothing but harm

OS120

BrokenArrows wrote: »

...Separately since you will have been legally responsible for child maintenance payments since the childs birth you should really seek out legal advice. If the mother wishes she might be able to start asking you for money.

this is worth noting - in the UK a liability for child maintainance is not conditional on contact with the child. if the OP sticks his head above the parapet he may (depending on the childs situation, the attitude of the Mother etc..) find himself being chased for large sums of money - including 14 years back payments - by an agency of the UK government called the Child Maintainance Service. the going rate is around 12% of Gross income.


personally i'm unconvinced that attempting to crowbar the OP into the childs life at this stage is in the childs best interests, and i fear that opening this can of worms will please no one, hurt everyone involved, upset the child and the life she has, and cost everyone a fortune.

OS120

OS120 wrote: »

personally i'm unconvinced that attempting to crowbar the OP into the childs life at this stage is in the childs best interests, and i fear that opening this can of worms will please no one, hurt everyone involved, upset the child and the life she has, and cost everyone a fortune.

Well what will definitely upset the child is if he leaves it another 5 or 6 years!
So what about the money? If he owes child maintenance then he should pay it, he should have been paying towards his daughters life for the last 12 years anyway.

LegacyUser

A nephew of mine met his own birth father when he was 20. Apparently the birth father is some sort of deadbeat loser and the entire meeting has badly shaken my nephew's self-confidence since. It had a fatalism, a sort of "My Dad is a complete loser so I'll probably end up one, too" that shocked me and I didn't know what to say that would convince him otherwise.

I suppose I'm trying to say that whatever you decide, be alert to how significant such a meeting will be for your child. Prior to this I would have always assumed it's best for kids to meet their parents, and a right to know any genetic medical conditions.

chris525

I've been on the receiving end of this: I was the abandoned daughter. I saw my father a grand total of 3 times as a child, no birthday cards, no phone calls, no letters, nothing.

He asked my mother if he could have my phone number when I was 18. I told him to **** off. After all, he was never there for me so why try to be BFFs at 18?

Be prepared for a negative/angry response especially if you wait until the child is 18. By 18, they will know what you have done and some possible reasons why you did it. I wouldn't wait that long.

Start with letters. Very slowly. A card for every holiday. I had no concept of 'dad' or what a dad was. It will be alien to her.

I'm 31 now and might give him a chance now but I'd also yell at him and express my anger. You're going to have to put up with that and stick with it. Be prepared for a hurricane of insults. Don't give up one day you'll get through. I'm not sure what kind of a relationship you'd be able to build with a 31-year old but you could try (if it comes to this situation).

nikkibikki

12 years ago was 2007.

Why did you wait til 2010 to attempt to make contact? You don't have to answer that here but you need to ask yourself that.

wiggle16

Hi Chris525

As this thread is 3 months old and the OP hasn't been back I am closing this thread.

Thread locked