Shane Ross gives €5 million to airport with... no flights...

... which just happens to be in the constituency of his Independent Alliance colleague John "I will resign if Shane Ross is removed" Halligan. That it was done against the advice of both the Department of Expenditure and the Department of Rural Affairs just symbolises this man's ability to put the greater good over Healy-Rea style parish-pump politics.

Waterford Airport to get €5m despite no commercial flights for three years

'Shane Ross’s €5m grant for airport with no flights'

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We, the Irish people, are truly blessed to have politicians of his calibre in our government. We need more politicians like this who heroically, from Stepaside to Wesley College to Waterford, reject parish-pump politics and mutual back scratching and put Ireland first. Honour. Integrity. This. Man. Has. It. All.

I think it is only in future years that Irish people will fully appreciate the magnitude of the fiscal rectitude and responsible governance which has, from hospital building to broadband supplying, marked this Fine Gael-led government.

Tabnabs

Waterford Airport is planning a €12 million runway extension that will enable it to cater for larger aircraft. A statement from the department said the remaining cost of the project would be met by private investor and local authority interests that have committed to funding €5 million and €2 million respectively in return for an equity shareholding in the airport.

If you can't cater for a Boeing 737 (ryanair) or Airbus A320 (aer lingus), then it seems wise to upgrade to that standard, no?

Eric Cartman

While investment in a commercially viable runway seems like a good idea, Travel from waterford airport seems a bit of a pipe dream considering cork and dublin road links are both excellent and much more viable alternatives for flight.

ted1

Before I pass judgement I’d like to hear the views of Willie Walsh or Michael O Leary. Are IAG or Ryanair willing to operate if the runway can take their planes.

Ubbquittious

Probably one of the less bad things Shane Ross has done. If it helps get waterford airport up and running again it is probably worth it.

Tabnabs

Tabnabs wrote: »

If you can't cater for a Boeing 737 (ryanair) or Airbus A320 (aer lingus), then it seems wise to upgrade to that standard, no?

But, da environment. Won’t someone please think of da environment.

expectationlost

Tabnabs wrote: »

If you can't cater for a Boeing 737 (ryanair) or Airbus A320 (aer lingus), then it seems wise to upgrade to that standard, no?

if they couldn't fill 70 seaters then...?

L1011

expectationlost wrote: »

if they couldn't fill 70 seaters then...?

Cost base on a 70 seater is vastly higher per seat.

See this as the last 5m they're going to get - if it doesn't work there won't be another cent sent down there.

expectationlost

L1011 wrote: »

Cost base on a 70 seater is vastly higher per seat.

you have to sell seats though

L1011

expectationlost wrote: »

you have to sell seats though

Which are cheaper to sell on larger aircraft, that's the point. Also range is limited and airspeed is lower, making some routes completely non-viable.


If they can't support daily London and maybe 3w Manchester, Birmingham and 1w to a sun destination in Summer from an appropriate length runway - close it down. Because they've got a motorway to Dublin they don't need subsidised flights there (never had them - the flights there were decades ago were commercial).

It would make more sense to make Baldonnel a commercial airport and spend money there.

L1011

Aegir wrote: »

It would make more sense to make Baldonnel a commercial airport and spend money there.

No, it absolutely wouldn't. Indeed it is an awful idea.

Dublin does not need a second airport. The city is vastly too small to support two airports.

You would end up with duplication of routes; neither airport with any chance of being rail connected ever. Likely less routes overall due to the diminishment of any hub impacts. You get two crap airports from doing that.

Look at Belfast - two airports and no flights to the US or Middle East despite massive aviation tax advantages over every other mid-sized city in the UK.

Agent Smith

Move Air Corp to Waterford,
Open Baldonell as a second airport for Dublin.

L1011

Agent Smith wrote: »

Move Air Corp to Waterford,
Open Baldonell as a second airport for Dublin.

Read post above - Dublin doesn't need a second airport and it's an awful idea.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

No, it absolutely wouldn't. Indeed it is an awful idea.

Dublin does not need a second airport. The city is vastly too small to support two airports.

You would end up with duplication of routes; neither airport with any chance of being rail connected ever. Likely less routes overall due to the diminishment of any hub impacts. You get two crap airports from doing that.

Look at Belfast - two airports and no flights to the US or Middle East despite massive aviation tax advantages over every other mid-sized city in the UK.

Baldonnel would be far easier to connect to main line rail and is easily accessible for Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway.

With the proposed upgrades for Dublin airport, I think there is an argument to just close it and make Baldonnel the country’s main airport.

L1011

Aegir wrote: »

Baldonnel would be far easier to connect to main line rail and is easily accessible for Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway.

With the proposed upgrades for Dublin airport, I think there is an argument to just close it and make Baldonnel the country’s main airport.

Except there isn't the space at Baldonnel to even replicate a portion of the facilities let alone the required expansion lands

It's an awful idea that only gets proposed by people who have done no research.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

Except there isn't the space at Baldonnel to even replicate a portion of the facilities let alone the required expansion lands

It's an awful idea that only gets proposed by people who have done no research.

I hadn’t realised it had been proposed.

But I do believe some out of the box thinking is required rather than just trying to polish a turd, which throwing money at Waterford airport is.

L1011

Aegir wrote: »

I hadn’t realised it had been proposed.

But I do believe some out of the box thinking is required rather than just trying to polish a turd, which throwing money at Waterford airport is.

You proposed it!

It really is quite possibly the worst idea that isn't emanating from a Tory politician currently.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

You proposed it!

It really is quite possibly the worst idea that isn't emanating from a Tory politician currently.

aah, ok. The way you put it (ignoring the ad hominem) it sounded as though it had been proposed elsewhere.

So what are your options on the future of commercial aviation in this country?

Dublin, Dublin or, maybe, Dublin?

L1011

Aegir wrote: »

aah, ok. The way you put it (ignoring the ad hominem) it sounded as though it had been proposed elsewhere.

So what are your options on the future of commercial aviation in this country?

Dublin, Dublin or, maybe, Dublin?

The country (let alone the city) is too small to support two large airports and any attempts to try reduce traffic at the existing Dublin airport for some hare-brained idea of "regional development" is going to have an amplifying affect on the damage it causes due to its status as a trans atlantic hub.

Calling an awful idea awful is not ad hominem.

This has to be the last cash block to Waterford for this - if they don't get commercial flights, close the Terminal. There is no advantage in subsidising holidaymakers getting half an hour extra in bed before a flight to Spain versus going to Dublin; and business traffic will regain most lost time by using a proper London airport rather than Luton which is the likely destination for any service.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

The country (let alone the city) is too small to support two large airports and any attempts to try reduce traffic at the existing Dublin airport for some hare-brained idea of "regional development" is going to have an amplifying affect on the damage it causes due to its status as a trans atlantic hub.

Calling an awful idea awful is not ad hominem.

This has to be the last cash block to Waterford for this - if they don't get commercial flights, close the Terminal. There is no advantage in subsidising holidaymakers getting half an hour extra in bed before a flight to Spain versus going to Dublin; and business traffic will regain most lost time by using a proper London airport rather than Luton which is the likely destination for any service.

I think there is a poignant question here. Does Dublin serve the country as it's main international airport, or does it just serve Dublin airport as a stand alone business.

If it is the former, then its location needs to be seriously called in to question. If it is the latter, then some effort needs to be made to make it accessible to the rest of the country. Expecting people to leave their home in the third largest city in the country at 3am so they can catch an 8am flight is just plain madness.

If Dublin airport needs over €1bn in investment over the next five years, just to effectively stand still, then surely a serious discussion needs to be had on its long term future entirely.

L1011

Aegir wrote: »

I think there is a poignant question here. Does Dublin serve the country as it's main international airport, or does it just serve Dublin airport as a stand alone business.

If it is the former, then its location needs to be seriously called in to question. If it is the latter, then some effort needs to be made to make it accessible to the rest of the country. Expecting people to leave their home in the third largest city in the country at 3am so they can catch an 8am flight is just plain madness.

If Dublin airport needs over €1bn in investment over the next five years, just to effectively stand still, then surely a serious discussion needs to be had on its long term future entirely.

To change location would plausibly cost €25Bn - land acquisition costs, construction of runways, terminals, airfield infrastructure and connecting transport links. And at best you may get it 30mins drivetime closer to the N7 side of the city, to the detriment of people on the N1 side - remember that it serves as the main airport for the island, not just ROI - the Belfast airports are jokeshops. There is nothing wrong with the location.

With a larger airport there is likely to be a 1pm, and a 5pm and a 9pm flight to many destinations - not just 8am. Split routes across multiple airports and you get less places served so now its a 6am flight to Heathrow first; and just one flight a day to most of whats left. It doesn't help people in regional cities in any way.

And the current investment plan for Dublin is not to "stand still", it is to massively increase capacity.

Hotblack Desiato

Aegir wrote: »

If Dublin airport needs over €1bn in investment over the next five years, just to effectively stand still, then surely a serious discussion needs to be had on its long term future entirely.

This is not taxpayers' money - it's from Dublin Airport's own revenue.

Tokyo

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