My daughter needs help

LegacyUser

Hi,

I am a long term Boards user going unregged for this.

Where to start...my daughter is now 18, technically an adult and has been suffering from poor mental health issues for the past 3 years or so. She went to CAMHS periodically until she turned 18 and has had one or two visits to adult mental health services since she turned 18.

She's never been diagnosed with anything as such and simply explains her issues as deep depression, feelings of loneliness and quite often, abject rage. She's extremely immature for her age in the sense that she cannot seem to do the most basic tasks by herself (despite being told how to do laundry, using dishwasher tablets instead of washing powder, not being able to use a corkscrew etc.) She never flushes the toilet or cleans up after herself, despite constant instructions to do so. She will literally sleep with rubbish/ discarded clothes/ mouldy cups of tea around her. It never occurs to her to clean the counter after she makes food etc.

These things are concerning, however it's become so much worse over the last 6 months. She has started meeting up with random men on Tinder and sleeping with them. She is drinking almost constantly. Today, her sister received a snapchat from her taken in a hotel room with some random guy taking lines of cocaine.

In short, I am terrified something awful is going to happen to her. Myself and her father (who are no longer together, but very amicable) have tried talking to her countless times about getting her help. She agrees initially, but then doesn't bother going or refuses to take any medication prescribed for her.

What can we do? I believe she needs serious help but it has to be voluntary doesn't it? Or can we have her involuntarily admitted as I genuinely believe she's a danger to herself.

I'm at my wits end at this stage. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

oLoonatic

First of all, I'm sorry to hear this and can understand why you are worried. Its another person that is being failed by the system who has clear health issues. My son who is much younger cant even get into cahms for the next two years due to waiting lists.

Just to touch on the last part first. No you cannot have her admitted.

It sounds to me that she is acting as any teenager would with regards to tinder and drinking etc. The problem nowadays everything is connected via social media so you can get away with as much. That's what I was doing at that age and so are alot of teenagers. Its your time to experiment with sex and drugs. I know that it doesnt help matters with mental health issues, but it is part of the experience of being a teen that you have to factor in. Having my own mental health issues (diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety) I stopped drinking myself for a long time until I learned how to control it. Realistically it needs to be her own decision to get the help otherwise there is a higher chance of relapse.

Sardonicat

Was she able to finish school and get a LC? Is/can she go to college/work? Has she friends.? How is she at taking care of herself in terms of personal hygiene and appearance?

When you say she can't do basic stuff is it a genuine lack of ability or is it she's just not bothered?

And this rage, how does that manifest itself and who does she direct it at?

Your one trump card here is allowing her to live at home being made conditional to engaging with mental health services consistently. You would have to mean it though and of course, you can lead a horse to water bit can't make it drink.

Have you any support yourself in dealing with this?

antix80

Worried mum wrote: »

Or can we have her involuntarily admitted as I genuinely believe she's a danger to herself.

She does drugs. She's sleeping around. ..and she leaves cups in her room and doesn't wipe down the counters. Sorry, op, this isn't enough to get an adult committed.

Best you can do is ask her to attend therapy or counselling, and support her if she goes.
Of course, not much you can do if she doesn't want to engage. It sounds like she's proud of her behaviour.. she might be revelling in causing you upset by rebelling in some way.

Second bit of advice is to consider your own mental health. Sitting at home catastrophising about your adult daughter isn't going to do you any good. Your attempts to reign her in might have the opposite effect.

You never mentioned what she does for a living. School, college, work? If at all possible, it might be a good idea for her to look into a house-share if you can help fund it (if she can't afford it by herself). A bit of independence and living with some peers could help her grow up a bit.

Neyite

Mod


Kidchameleon, please don't advocate using force on a person, or forcibly medicating anyone. It's against the charter.


Your post was deleted and a reply from another poster quoting it was also deleted.



Please re-read the charter to ensure that your advice is helpful and not breaking the rules.

LegacyUser

Sardonicat wrote: »

Was she able to finish school and get a LC? Is/can she go to college/work? Has she friends.? How is she at taking care of herself in terms of personal hygiene and appearance?

Yes, she scraped the Leaving Cert Applied. She started a college course, but dropped out after two months as she 'didn't understand it' and proceeded to spend the next few months sleeping in all day citing depression. We made up CVs for her, but without any experience behind her, found it hard to even get any replies! This demotivated her even more. She seems to have given up trying at this stage.

Her own personal hygiene and appearance are fine. She does take pride in the way she looks (hair, nails, tan etc).

When you say she can't do basic stuff is it a genuine lack of ability or is it she's just not bothered?

I honestly don't know, perhaps a bit of both? Some of the simple tasks she asks me about are mind boggling. It sounds awful, but I have considered that perhaps she's a little slow developmentally. Like, who doesn't flush the toilet after themselves? It's disgusting and you shouldn't have to be told to do things like that when you're past the age of 6. I shouldn't keep having to remind my adult child to do this!

And this rage, how does that manifest itself and who does she direct it at?

Her friends and her family mainly. She will scream over simple things like not being able to find her phone charger (she loses stuff A LOT!) and will accuse one of us of hiding it or moving it deliberately.
Last week she spent 20 minutes screaming and swearing down the phone at her friend because she went somewhere without telling her. Her drinking doesn't help with the temper...

Your one trump card here is allowing her to live at home being made conditional to engaging with mental health services consistently. You would have to mean it though and of course, you can lead a horse to water bit can't make it drink.

Have you any support yourself in dealing with this?

We recently set up an appointment with a CBT therapist. She went, decided it was 'a load of crap' and said she wouldn't go again and went off on a three day bender. She only has jobseeker's Allowance, so hasn't money to move out. I have often thought about telling her to leave, but realistically she has nowhere to go. Her dad and his partner live in a one bedroomed flat, although he has offered her the couch any time she needs it, she refuses.

My G.P has prescribed anti-depressants for me, as a while ago, I thought I might be having a breakdown. This has helped somewhat, but I constantly feel on edge wondering what mood she'll be in when I come home from work and where she is when she heads off on another bender. It's just so exhausting.

Faith

How did she do at school, like back in primary? Did she always keep up with her peers or was she often behind? Did she hit milestones (walking, talking, toileting, reading, writing, etc) at the expected time, or was she faster or slower than expected? Has she always had behavioral difficulties and outbursts, or can you pinpoint when they started?

If these things weren’t present in her childhood, then it could be more mental health related. If they were, it could be developmental. Would you be able to pay for her to be privately assessed by a psychologist or psychiatrist, I wonder? I’m not sure how helpful the Irish public system would be, as adult services may not agree to assess for developmental issues.

suicide_circus

can you get her IQ assessed? i'm not trying to be cruel but if she cant complete basic functions like flushing the toilet she may have some reduction in mental capacity and could be classed as a vulnerable adult? i'm not expert but maybe you could contact social services on ask advice? best of luck

dmm82

Where is she getting the money from to do her tan, nails etc? When my son left school he dropped out of college too, I told him I would not be giving him a cent to fund his social life etc and that he would have to find a job. He likes expensive clothes so he found one fairly quickly

Always Tired

I was pretty wild at that age, a slob (not as bad as what OP has described but still pretty bad) and partying all the time. I've also had issues with depression but back then it wasn't commonly diagnosed for people my age.

The only thing cured me, unfortunately, was getting kicked out of the house. But while it caused me to grow up, it also led to me being estranged from my mother for years. Eventually I realized that I was the one in the wrong.

But if you don't want to go that route, what else can you do? She's an adult legally, you can't control her. If she's drinking constantly and taking drugs she'll probably end up in trouble with the guards at some stage, maybe that would knock some sense into her.

Still, it's your house and you can set what conditions must be followed for her to stay there. Perhaps consider a family intervention and confronting her as a group about her drug and alcohol use being out of control, and tell her that she has to go to a drug and alcohol counsellor as a condition to stay in the house. If she has a medical card it's free once you get referral from a GP

JustAThought

Maybe the rage attacks are because she is totally frustrated with the big picture stuff and it tips over with smaller things sometimes. Does she have anything she actually does or enjoys or is good at?Maybe see if you can get her involved in something nonnacademic where she might form a purpose to her week or gave a structure to look forward to? Volunteering to help.make or deliver Meels on Wheels or in the Tidy Towns or a badmington class or something. Neither she nor you can have her carry on like a teenager forever - maybe her havingva something she can look forward to or 'achieve' in alongside normal people mighy be a help. Either way you will have to have a talk with her - she cannot continue this way and needs to know it.

ILoveYourVibes

She's a typical alcoholic.

It really interferes with cognitive ability and mood swings/rage attacks. It would also explain not taking care of the house etc.

Is she doing any other drugs weed etc?

You say she drinks constantly , everyday?

It sounds like 'drug haze'.

pwurple

Sounds like a classic alcoholic to me too... Putting herself in harmful situations (meeting strangers who do Coke in hotel rooms for sex) , mood swings, inability to look after herself.

Do you know her friends? At that age, peer influence is far stronger than parents. What do they think of the mood swings and risky behaviour? (No need to mention the toilet to them, this could just be a way to disrespect you)



How does she fund a 3 day bender on job seekers? That money should be going straight to you for bed and board...

Zorya

That is so stressful and upsetting for you. Haven't a clue how one could deal with it, it's all the more scary because she is vulnerable as a girl to pregnancy etc.. The IQ analysis idea is a good one. I wonder if one of those radical detox boot camp places would be worth considering. Would have to look them up, but like you hear people go to in Asia. Something totally different maybe should be tried, it doesn't sound like regular is working. I have some ideas but they might be too out there to share here, but think radically outside the box. Ends of the earth style thinking. Some situations need that.

Anyway mostly mind yourself, I know that is hard because it is impossible to be happy if our children are in trouble. Maybe weekly counselling? Someone you can talk to regularly who minds you. Take care.

LegacyUser

Thank you for all you replies...sorry it's been another long night.

To answer a few questions, she has always been a below average student in the sense that she never really engaged with school in any meaningful way. Her reports were never glowing, but she did well enough to get by I suppose. She reads and writes perfectly, so a learning difficulty never really occured to me in that sense. Like many others, I just assumed school wasn't her thing. She's never really had any real interests - I couldn't tell you one thing she was ever passionate about. We discussed future career paths whilst she was in her last year of school, but she showed no real interest in anything in particular.

The drinking really started after she dropped out of her college course at the end of last year. She has had various friends and they do go out as normal teenagers do, but none of them drink to the extent she does. Most of them are now in college, have jobs etc. so she only really sees them at weekends. Sometimes they call over during the week and she's up in her room drinking while they visit.

I have no idea when she started meeting guys on Tinder. Her last year in school, I was concerned about her relationship with one particular friend and looked at her phone messages one day...I was horrified to see she had joined up to a Sugar Daddy website and was planning to meet up with some older guy in a hotel. Her father and I confronted her and grounded her, took away her phone and insisted she go to a counsellor. This is when she suggested she may be bipolar, however none of the people she saw in CAMHS confirmed her self-diagnosis. She was put on medication, but stopped taking them soon after as she said they weren't helping, even though she was told it could take up to 8 weeks to take effect. She refused another prescription because one of the side-effects included possible weight gain. Frustrating isn't the word!

Yesterday after I discovered she was taking drugs in a hotel room with two random guys, her friend and my other daughter tracked her down to a local hotel and we called the police, telling them about the drugs. I was actually hoping she would get arrested and it might be a wake-up call for her, but all they could do was check on her welfare, as she is an adult and they had no warrant to search the hotel room. The police visit made her apoplectic and she messaged me saying she was never coming back. She did, at 4.30 this morning, stuffed some clothes into a bag and went off again - probably back to some seedy hotel again. I tried reasoning with her calmly, but she just swore at me, screaming and slammed the door on her way out. I'm now sick with worry again.

At this stage, I'm at a complete loss. I'm teetering on the edge of a breakdown and as she's an adult, I can't force her to do anything, nor can the police do anything. I'm just so bloody exhausted and heartbroken by her self-destructive behaviour and feel like there's nothing I can do about any of it.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.

Zorya

Don't even know what to say, I'd be beside myself. You poor thing. If sympathy is any good to you, you have mine.
Has your other daughter any insight into all this? She must be so upset too.

It is impossible once they get to a certain age to ''control'' them, even to steer them at all. They get so stubborn, even if they are good kids, they just want you to get out of their hair. Himself always says to me no point in arguing with them about x, y or z, it will just make them more gung-ho about it - and I'm talking about very minor stuff now in comparison. So, really, it is not possible to turn her off this course unless she chooses it, I suppose. Which is horrible for you.

The only person you can mind in this situation is you, it seems. Don't let your health break over this. You deserve to be well. Mind yourself. I go out to one of the islands off the west coast and spend a week just walking if things are rough. Maybe you could do with time away.

Finchie1276

Hello.
I am so sorry at what you are going through.
I am interested in a few aspects of what you say.

1. Developmental stuff - I would look into an assessment. If there is cognitive, developmental stuff then it could be that her frustration arises from this. However she is an adult so can refuse.
2. Bipolar - Personality Disorder - this should be investigated, it might be extreme highs or lows? If she suggested it herself she might identify with it. It may be hard to get an accurate diagnosis though given her age and the difficulty in that there is drug and alcohol use.
3. I don't think the alcohol and drugs explain all this - they are recent and for me a symptom not the cause. A lot of the issues with self care were in place before she started drinking.

So, is it cognitive, a disorder or an addiction? It will take figuring out to do so.
If it were me I would talk to her, wait till she is calm and say you are concerned. First step will have to address the alcohol and drugs then work on the other stuff. It is a process of elimination.

I want to FULLY stress that you have a responsibility to her only in so far as she will work with you, after that you or your husband cannot facilitate her unless she commits to getting clean. She may have to be asked to leave to see that she has hit rock bottom.

I suggest Al Anon as a resource for you. I also suggest that the more you do for yourself with clear boundaries for her behaviour and consequences the better things will go for you. It will be difficult because we are hard wired to help our kids but at some point you have to accept her choices are unhealthy and adversely impact on your life.


I wish you all the best with whatever you chose to do, I admire your tenacity but urge you to make space for yourself in whatever you chose to do.

God Bless.

dodgygeezer

As other posters have said she would benefit from an urgent Assessment - and this is ironic coming from a Psychiatrist, if I was in your shoes I would be going Psychological assessment before a Psychiatric assessment.

Also as some other posters above have indicated, there are distinct developmental features of interest here. I would suggest that ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder) be outruled. The gold standard for this is in an depth Psychological assessment e.g. ADOS. There should be a list of accredited psychologists online.

I wonder are her reported “rages” the overwhelming sporadic emotional “meltdowns” seen in ASD.

The signs of ASD can be more subtle in females and can present later as more developed social skills can “mask” it to some extent compared to males. Adult ASD females often look back on their lives and describe a persistent sense of “winging it” in social situations.

Does she struggle with sarcasm or innuendo? Was she clumsy as a child? This is very common in ASD. Her difficulty toileting certainly suggests a possible Dyspraxic disorder. She would also benefit from a private Occupational Therapy Assessment. More €€€ unfortunately.

ADHD should also be screened for. Significant disorganisation / inattentiveness / impaired academic performance and emotional dysregulation are features.

At this stage of life though, you can be blue in the face exhorting her to address the substance misuse and unsafe behavior and engage with clinicians- something has to click within her to prompt her to seek help.

You sound like a very caring and involved mother. I wish her and you the best of luck.

qwerty13

Could be totally off the beam here. But did anything happen her to cause her to drop out of life? As in a sexual assault.

Granted, that is leaping a lot. It just sounded as though she didn’t have prior difficulties (other than being a teenager) but then developed quite out there behaviours. Apologies if I’ve gone off on one, but it sounded to me as though her behaviour has gone off the deep end relatively quickly, and I’d wonder if that was down to a specific circumstance.

It could be due to emerging mental health issues either, or addiction. I do think it would be useful to consider the sequence of events though.

shesty

I am no expert either OP, but it sounds to me like it's something other than just "teenage stuff".At 18, not flushing toilets, living in dirt etc sounds like something is wrong developmentally, she just hid it well until a few years ago.My initial thought, just based on anecdotally what I know of these things, was maybe Aspergers or high-functioning Autism or some form of bipolar disorder - as I say, those things were just inital words that jumped into my head when I read your posts, based on what I know of them.She could really do with an assessment.(and to be honest ,I think you could do with her having one).Could it be managed??The rage outbursts, at this stage....sorry but I can't agree that they are normal.They sound to me like someone who is quite distressed internally, can't regulate herself emotionally for whatever reason, which I would think would point to something more than just hormones, at this age.The Tinder thing....again, ok some people might argue this is normal-maybe it is to some degree...but it sounds like she lacks the emotional maturity to see the danger in something like that.

Is there any way she could be assessed as recommended by the poster above??And is there anyone you could see for yourself?I couldn't imagine living with the stress of that as a mother.

Humria

Hi OP

That sounds like an extremely distressing situation for any parent to be in. I can only imagine how difficult it has been. There are no easy solutions to this because if there were, you would have already tried them.

What strikes me about your posts is that your daughter's world seems really chaotic. She finds it difficult to manage her emotions and problem solve in every day situations. It's also obvious that she enjoys the freedoms of adulthood with the limited responsibilities of childhood. IMO, the only thing you can really do to help is provide some boundaries, especially if you feel that her functioning is not as developed as you would expect for her age. I'm aware what I'm saying is easier said than done but I'd suggest the following.

1. Routine: She needs to get a job. She has no structure or routine and we all need that. Where is she getting money for hair/nails/tan? Why does she get to spend time in her room drinking? I would suggest only giving her money if she helps with the household tasks. If you think she has difficulty to them e.g. washing clothes then stay with her the first few times and talks her through them. She doesn't need to go to college but she needs to learn to function in the real world. At the moment there's no real push to get a job because she's comfortable in her situation. I'd be looking towards a job in a supermarket. I'm aware she doesn't want to do that atm, hence less funding of her lifestyle.

2. This is a tough one but as much as possible, not responding to her when she is overly aggressive or acting inappropriately. If you think she's in danger, obviously call the gardai but don't engage with it much otherwise. Don't shout or give out. You can calmly tell her her behaviour frightens you because you feel like she puts herself in a dangerous situations and then stop talking about it.

3. Giving her some encouragement for what she does well. I know she should think of cleaning up after herself without it but we all respond well if we feel like our efforts are being acknowledged. If she brings down her old cups of tea, just say thank you. It sounds like she doesn't have much confidence in her own ability so I'd really try focus on that.

4. There's a really good book called How to Talk So Teens Will Listen & Listen So Teens Will Talk. She may need a bit more support in recognising and managing her emotions. You being able to say "It's really heard when your friends leave you out and I can see why your angry" may help her feel understood and help bring the emotion down.


I'm aware the above may not feel like much when she is engaging in so much risky behaviour but it's about trying to build more solid foundations. It's hugely difficult for you because the reality is, your daughter is putting herself in risky situations and you cannot eliminate all the danger. Unless you lock her in her room (I'm not advocating this btw) you can't protect her from all the dangers in the world. All you can do is try help her build some skills to manage her own emotions and try give her some routine and structure. Keep her engaged in services as well. Finally, I'd really strongly suggest that you get your own support. You're in a really stressful situation and we all have our limits. Taking care of yourself will mean you are less likely to get overwhelmed and will give you some more head space to try help your daughter.

ILoveYourVibes

OP it sounds like she has serious substance abuse issues and is exhibiting typical behaviors incl using people, family and men for money and or support.

It also sounds like she is selfish and kind of delusional.

I think she needs rehab tbh.

There is no doubt she is an addict.

I don't know about developmental disorders it could be that. If you want to get her checked etc then by all means do so.





I do know though that addictions do have route causes. And can come out of mental issues or developmental issues.

Also several health issues only present themselves fully as an adult.

Her self esteem can't be too high.

It could also be she is selfish and lazy though and has no conscience about using people.

Have a long talk to her. Tell her you and your husband can't support her forever etc.

blindside88

Op, very sorry to hear of your daughters issues. Are you or her dad funding her in anyway? You say she drinks everyday and gets her hair, nails and tan done. I wouldn’t imagine this possible on jobseekers at 18. I would suggest getting an assessment if she agrees, if not some tough love may be needed, let her go stay on her dads couch to see how well she has it living with you. I can only imagine how frustrated and helpless you must feel, no matter how old she is you will always feel responsible for her

LegacyUser

Hi OP.
I've been reading your thread for a while but only now have decided to reply.
I would like to offer a different perspective.
I was your daughter for a good while.
I finished school, went to college in another country (as your daughter I went through secondary school because I had too, I did love some subjects for for most I just did the bare minimum).
I got completely lost for a few years, engaging in simmilar behaviours to your daughter.
My parents were desperate many times as they thought I was heading in a very wrong direction.
Everything changed when I got my first job and it was like a lightbulbs moment in my head. Stuff just aligned and it all made sense.
All I can say is this, my parents never let me fall that low that I had no way to come back.
I would like to suggest, you're daughter thinks she's a grown up (she clearly isn't).
Let her live her life, she needs to make mistakes and learn from them. Let her come to you when the inevitable s**it hits the fan, make sure lessons are learned though.
I know that was the only way I learned.
If it helps, I'm out the other side and I am doing really well for myself, o have a pretty solid trouble free life.
I wish you the best...
PS. I now thank my parents repeatedly for being there for me more times than I can count.

dudara

A reminder to all posters that posts in PI/RI should offer helpful, constructive advice. If you can't offer that, then please don't post.

I have removed some recent posts that did not offer any assistance to the OP and issued cards appropriately.

Please read the forum charter or contact a mod if you are unclear about posting standards.

dudara

ILoveYourVibes

Op there is an anon post here Anon 2019
Guest that shares a personal story.

Hi OP.
I've been reading your thread for a while but only now have decided to reply.
I would like to offer a different perspective.
I was your daughter for a good while.

I think its a really brave and insightful post I think that you should take notice of.

I would like to thank that poster for sharing it. I would also like to let them know i think they are amazing to make that change. And i hope they know so.

Its making a lot of common sense.