Move boiler & cylinder to attic

GreeBo

Hey,

I'm renovating an old house which needs a full replumb.

I want to move boiler from downstairs utility and hwc to the attic and pressurize the entire system.

Longer term we will be fitting solar and either a2w or g2w heat pump.

Anything i should consider now in respect to the long term plans? Anything to avoid?

Current boiler is 10yo volker. If i was to replace this what should i do to avoid wasting money long term?

House is poorly insulated so needs powerful boiler to keep warm at the moment.

We have a power shower so hot water is not a major concern right now, ideally would remove this and rely on solar and heat pump for water and heat.

Ubbquittious

GreeBo wrote: »

Hey,

I'm renovating an old house which needs a full replumb.

I want to move boiler from downstairs utility and hwc to the attic and pressurize the entire system.

Longer term we will be fitting solar and either a2w or g2w heat pump.

Anything i should consider now in respect to the long term plans? Anything to avoid?

Current boiler is 10yo volker. If i was to replace this what should i do to avoid wasting money long term?

House is poorly insulated so needs powerful boiler to keep warm at the moment.

We have a power shower so hot water is not a major concern right now, ideally would remove this and rely on solar and heat pump for water and heat.

If you are getting rid of a boiler that is only 10 years old you might as well put in an ashoop straight away if that's what your plan is anyway.

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Hey,

I'm renovating an old house which needs a full replumb.

I want to move boiler from downstairs utility and hwc to the attic and pressurize the entire system.

Longer term we will be fitting solar and either a2w or g2w heat pump.

Anything i should consider now in respect to the long term plans? Anything to avoid?

Current boiler is 10yo volker. If i was to replace this what should i do to avoid wasting money long term?

House is poorly insulated so needs powerful boiler to keep warm at the moment.

We have a power shower so hot water is not a major concern right now, ideally would remove this and rely on solar and heat pump for water and heat.

First off, I would suggest insulation, then more insulation.
Depending on the general condition and model of the boiler, keep it and move it to the attic. You will need a new flue, but with Vokera that shouldn't be a problem for a 10 year old unit.
A good installer should be able to set up the pipework in such a way with valves in the right locations to make a future changeover very very straightforward. As its going to be fully re-plumbed do your separate heat zones etc now and get a magnetic filter fitted as well.
Remember, there are specific regulations regarding gas boilers in attics.
With your long term future plan, get the correct cylinder now in order to avoid having to change that later. With adequate cold water storage and a decent pump with a speed controller you are then well set up in that area.
Two other things, first, make sure all your toilet cisterns are fed direct from the cold tank and not via the pump, and second, make sure that the area in the attic is correctly set up to support the extra weight.

antoinolachtnai

Moving boiler and cylinder to attic and pressurising everything is a pretty expensive project. You need to really make sure that you are doing the 'right' project first.

It may make more sense to invest the money in insulation and windows. Or it may make more sense to do some basic things, patch up the plumbing and save the money to do a big retrofit in a few years when building labour is easier to come by.

There is no point in moving or replacing a working boiler now if you think you are going to put in ASHP in a few years.

If you do go ahead and want to plumb for ASHP you need the right advice. Ideally you would do the big retrofit job and put in underfloor heating. Failing that, you need to plan for having a large square footage of radiators.

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

First off, I would suggest insulation, then more insulation.
Depending on the general condition and model of the boiler, keep it and move it to the attic. You will need a new flue, but with Vokera that shouldn't be a problem for a 10 year old unit.
A good installer should be able to set up the pipework in such a way with valves in the right locations to make a future changeover very very straightforward. As its going to be fully re-plumbed do your separate heat zones etc now and get a magnetic filter fitted as well.
Remember, there are specific regulations regarding gas boilers in attics.
With your long term future plan, get the correct cylinder now in order to avoid having to change that later. With adequate cold water storage and a decent pump with a speed controller you are then well set up in that area.
Two other things, first, make sure all your toilet cisterns are fed direct from the cold tank and not via the pump, and second, make sure that the area in the attic is correctly set up to support the extra weight.

Will be fitting EWI once some extension work is planned.

I've had cisterns fed from pump before without issue, are you referring to noise here?
Wasn't a problem before tbh.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Moving boiler and cylinder to attic and pressurising everything is a pretty expensive project. You need to really make sure that you are doing the 'right' project first.

It may make more sense to invest the money in insulation and windows. Or it may make more sense to do some basic things, patch up the plumbing and save the money to do a big retrofit in a few years when building labour is easier to come by.

There is no point in moving or replacing a working boiler now if you think you are going to put in ASHP in a few years.

If you do go ahead and want to plumb for ASHP you need the right advice. Ideally you would do the big retrofit job and put in underfloor heating. Failing that, you need to plan for having a large square footage of radiators.

Large works will be done I the next 3-5 years, but I'm about to get a desire rewire so doing the plumbing now makes sense.
Also plumbing is 70+ years old gun barrel...it's only a matter of time before something goes wallop.

Why is there no point moving it? Will the same pipework not be required anyway?

Thx for replies

antoinolachtnai

I think you are trying to 'phase' the work, i.e., do the plumbing now, and the insulation, extension and other works in a few years.

Really you might be better bundling the whole job into one project and get it done in one go.

The problem with doing these jobs isn't the amount of pipework. The problem is that you will be spending hundreds or thousands of euros on moving stuff around without getting much real improvement, and then spending more euros on a completely new system in a few years.

Gun barrel is a serious problem, but you might be better trying to get a few years longer out of it.

lawred2

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Moving boiler and cylinder to attic and pressurising everything is a pretty expensive project. You need to really make sure that you are doing the 'right' project first.

It may make more sense to invest the money in insulation and windows. Or it may make more sense to do some basic things, patch up the plumbing and save the money to do a big retrofit in a few years when building labour is easier to come by.

There is no point in moving or replacing a working boiler now if you think you are going to put in ASHP in a few years.

If you do go ahead and want to plumb for ASHP you need the right advice. Ideally you would do the big retrofit job and put in underfloor heating. Failing that, you need to plan for having a large square footage of radiators.

What's this future availability of labour based on? When is this?

antoinolachtnai

Maybe it will never get better, i don't know. But as more accommodation comes on-stream, I would anticipate that it will be easier to recruit people from abroad. I didn't think I'd be called on to be so optimistic so early in the morning, but maybe there will be a global crash.

Ultimately, the building industry is cyclical and demand is very high at the moment. If you really need to do work, for sure, do it. There is no sign that prices will come down in the short term or guarantee that prices will come down in the medium term.

Wearb

lawred2 wrote: »

What's this future availability of labour based on? When is this?

MOD NOTE: Please don't just jump into a thread and try to pull it off topic.

GreeBo

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I think you are trying to 'phase' the work, i.e., do the plumbing now, and the insulation, extension and other works in a few years.

Really you might be better bundling the whole job into one project and get it done in one go.

The problem with doing these jobs isn't the amount of pipework. The problem is that you will be spending hundreds or thousands of euros on moving stuff around without getting much real improvement, and then spending more euros on a completely new system in a few years.

Gun barrel is a serious problem, but you might be better trying to get a few years longer out of it.

Tbh I'm trying to do as little as possible right now as I know there will be major renovations works in the next 3-5 years.

However, while livable at the moment, the house needs the rewire and since most of the flooring is going to be up anyway, I wanted to tackle the gun-barrel also.

Moving the boiler/cylinder is just an idea since the cylinder is undersized anyway and I want to pressurize the house.

I'm ok with spending a couple of grand here or there if its a step closer to what I want longterm or it has shortterm gains (e.g. the wiring is looking like €15K, but it has to be done)
I'm going to need to get some new windows and doors to replace some existing single glazing, but these wont be the final windows since we dont even know what the house is going to look like in 5 years. So these windows will be a "temp" (if you'll pardon the pun!) job and probably lost money unless I DoneDeal them afterwards.


Extension is going to be circa €400K so I'm putting that off until I can afford it a bit more!

(FYI my wife is in the economic side of things so we are keeping an eye on that with regards to pulling the trigger on the major reno work)

K.Flyer

GreeBo wrote: »

Will be fitting EWI once some extension work is planned.

I've had cisterns fed from pump before without issue, are you referring to noise here?
Wasn't a problem before tbh.



Large works will be done I the next 3-5 years, but I'm about to get a desire so doing the plumbing now makes sense.
Also plumbing is 70+ years old gun barrel...it's only a matter of time before something goes wallop.

Why is there no point moving it? Will the same pipework not be required anyway?

Thx for replies

I would agree fully with getting all theplumbing (and electrics?) done first, it's usually done first on any large refurb I've worked on.
Running seperate feeds to wc cisterns would be to avoid and unnecessary pump noise and energy costs.
If the boiler is good, move it and have all the pipes to the boiler valved so that a changeover is nice and straight forward.
I did a similar job for a customer, boiler was perfect, just got a new flue and put it in the new location.

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

I would agree fully with getting all theplumbing (and electrics?) done first, it's usually done first on any large refurb I've worked on.
Running seperate feeds to wc cisterns would be to avoid and unnecessary pump noise and energy costs.
If the boiler is good, move it and have all the pipes to the boiler valved so that a changeover is nice and straight forward.
I did a similar job for a customer, boiler was perfect, just got a new flue and put it in the new location.

I guess it depends on the pump, but in my last house we had the pump (and boiler/cistern) in the attic above the master bedroom and other thana gentle hum it was never an issue ( I did have it suspended via belts to avoid vibration noise though)

I'd rather the gentle hum than the slow fill noise of a cistern that I grew up with!


Yeah full house rewire is currently being quoted...its not pretty!


/edit
LOL, "desire" in my original post was mean to be "rewire"!

antoinolachtnai

Wow! If you are seeing that big a project in your future, I would suggest getting advice from an architect or something to see what jobs are worth doing now and most importantly, to work out an overall plan.

As you say, it might be a good idea to spend money if it brings you towards the final destination.

If I wanted a quick fix for the windows, I'd put polycarbonate secondary glazing on them. Not as good as double glazing, but makes a big improvement for a few hundred euros all the same. You could easily spend a few grand on cheap windows, and they are worth practically nothing at the end.

The problem with wiring and plumbing when you are going to do a big remodelling job in a few years is that you will lose the quiet enjoyment of your home for the four to six weeks it will take to get these things done. If everything is liveable, I don't think I'd bother. But it's obviously up to you!

H.E. Pennypacker

If you're going to pull up floors and are planning to move to a heat pump in the future then you should consider underfloor heating. Whether you eventually move to a heat pump or not, its nice to have but it will make a big difference to the cost of installing a heat pump.

Air tightness measures on the replacement floors would be a good move at this time too.

GreeBo

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Wow! If you are seeing that big a project in your future, I would suggest getting advice from an architect or something to see what jobs are worth doing now and most importantly, to work out an overall plan.

As you say, it might be a good idea to spend money if it brings you towards the final destination.

If I wanted a quick fix for the windows, I'd put polycarbonate secondary glazing on them. Not as good as double glazing, but makes a big improvement for a few hundred euros all the same. You could easily spend a few grand on cheap windows, and they are worth practically nothing at the end.

The problem with wiring and plumbing when you are going to do a big remodelling job in a few years is that you will lose the quiet enjoyment of your home for the four to six weeks it will take to get these things done. If everything is liveable, I don't think I'd bother. But it's obviously up to you!

It will be a big job, but it will pretty much be confined to one side of the house (existing single story, flat roof)

I did think about covering the windows, but really most of the issue with windows is around air tightness, so I think new units will be required. (for the opening ones anyway)
I also worry that the house is relying on being draughty, so if we seal everything up I expect to see mold.

Everything is livable for now, but I dont trust the wiring or the fuseboard and I suspect the house will be baltic once the weather changes.
Also I lived in a house with gun barrel before and it caused problems so I dont want to go through that again!

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

If you're going to pull up floors and are planning to move to a heat pump in the future then you should consider underfloor heating. Whether you eventually move to a heat pump or not, its nice to have but it will make a big difference to the cost of installing a heat pump.

Air tightness measures on the replacement floors would be a good move at this time too.

Floors will be pulled up just to run wires/pipes, its not the entire floor coming up.

Will deffo be looking at UF heating, once we figure out the insulation (suspended wooden floors downstairs at the moment), which will include air tightness etc.

doctorchopper

get rid of the cylinder and put a combi boiler in

dodzy

doctorchopper wrote: »

get rid of the cylinder and put a combi boiler in

Cylinder is a great fail-safe. Combi goes on the blink, and you've nothing.

GreeBo

dodzy wrote: »

Cylinder is a great fail-safe. Combi goes on the blink, and you've nothing.

I guess you could keep the Mira...but I was thinking more about ditching that (saves on re-wiring it) and put that money towards a combi.

What sort of pressure would/could you get from a combi?

I'm coming from a house with a 3 bar monsoon....