Rancilio vs Gaggia - new machine help!

caviardreams

Hi guys

My bean to cup looks to be on the way out and am hoping to take the step into a separate espresso machine and grinder set up. It will only be used fro Espresso (for Americano, not milk based drinks at all)

Ideally my budget would be 500 (Gaggia classic + rocky?) but would stretch for the right investment if it was worth the step up.

Would love the Rocky & Silvia from Rancilio but it is a little pricey vs a Gaggia Classic and Rocky/Gaggia MDF

A few questions if you don't mind - is there much of a step up from the Gaggia classic to the Silvia?

Re the rocky grinder - I am leaning to doser rather than doserless but never having used a separate grinder I am not really sure if this is the best choice? It seems like a great plus being able to dispense the grinds straight into the portafilter but maybe I am missing something as otherwise why would they sell a doserless version
The stand looks pretty for the rancilios - is there much benefit to it aside from aesthetics?

The rocky seems to be much better regarded than the Gaggia MDF grinder and they are a similar price point so the rocky probably makes most sense grinder-wise, or are there other options?

Finally is home coffee machines the best place to buy?

babybuilder

I used a rocky grinder doserless for nearly 8 years. Bullet proof construction and operation and ideal for espresso grind up to french press. I don't think you'll buy a more reliable grinder for the money. However, the doserless does retain coffee grinds but there are ways of reducing the amount of grind retention - look up youtube. I don't see the point in going for a doser version unless you are pulling lots of coffee shots daily. It is also stepped compared to the Baratza Vario and some coffee offinados look down their noses at the rocky. It's easy to clean and replace the burrs. There are more expensive grinders out there which can perform better with more expensive espresso machines. However, for me it served it purpose and I gave it to a family member and replaced it with a https://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiIgfefq-HiAhXYSRUIHaj5Af4QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faema.ca%2Fproduct-p%2Fc05-gvfipz9b7eaia.htm&psig=AOvVaw1n9cEvPXFplz3l3QeFTk2Q&ust=1560339368317402
The Rancillio silva is meant to be a great machine if you have the patience to learn how to use it. I went fro a Delonghi machine to a http://www.quickmill.it/eng/group-quick-mill-quick-mills-group-quick-mill-silvano-model04005.aspx

babybuilder

p.s.
I bought from home coffee machines. Overall, a pleasant experience but be advised to contact the company directly to ensure that whatever you plan to purchase is in stock. Clicking to buy online doesn't mean that the product is in stock.

caviardreams

Thanks baby, that's very helpful! How do you find the quickmill - is it easy enough to get the hang of using? It looks very pretty which is obviously the most important thing! :-)

babybuilder

caviardreams wrote: »

Thanks baby, that's very helpful! How do you find the quickmill - is it easy enough to get the hang of using? It looks very pretty which is obviously the most important thing! :-)

It's very straight forward to use. I had noticed a production fault but got it sent back and all is well now. It has a PID which compensates for temperature difference between boiler temperature and that of the group head. And a shot timer. I back flush every week and do a backflush clean with detergent every month. I'd say it's much more forgiving than the Silva but 400e more. Water tank could be bigger. I had a francino piccino for a while also and I think it's a fabulous machine with a larger water tank but no PID.

Enrico Palazzo

Silvia is overpriced for what it offers and in terms of espresso taste, you wouldn't notice a difference vs Gaggia.

Diziet

I had a Gaggia classic for a couple of years, until the plastic bits started breaking, and the warranty did not cover them apparently. Brown Thomas (who stocked these at the time) gave me my money back.
I bought a Silvia, which i have had for 10 years now and use it several times a day. Great coffee, and very easily repairable and maintainable. I changed the thermostat and a failed OPV with no trouble. Coffee is excellent. And it's Heavy! Very solid and built to last.

bergipau

Diziet wrote: »

And it's Heavy! Very solid and built to last.

Totally agree.
Mine is 15 years old. Our water is crazy hard and mine is still perfect. I’ve had to change nothing. Just the occasional clean and descale.

caviardreams

bergipau wrote: »

Totally agree.
Mine is 15 years old. Our water is crazy hard and mine is still perfect. I’ve had to change nothing. Just the occasional clean and descale.

Thanks guys - is it a very steep learning curve? I am coming from a bean to cup

Cond0r

Hey Folks,

I'm currently looking at upgrading my Delonghi machine at home and have come to similar options as the OP in this thread:

- gaggia classic (pro 2019 model, the previous one seems to be terrible for a variety of reasons)
- rancilio silvia
- lelit anna

My main difficulty at the moment is trying to find an Irish supplier for these kinds of entry-level "prosumer" machines. Where did you all buy from?
I've only really found homecoffeemachines.ie that stock Rancilio, there don't seem to be any Gaggia or Lelit dealers in Ireland at all.

Cheers!

babybuilder

Cond0r wrote: »

Hey Folks,

I'm currently looking at upgrading my Delonghi machine at home and have come to similar options as the OP in this thread:

- gaggia classic (pro 2019 model, the previous one seems to be terrible for a variety of reasons)
- rancilio silvia
- lelit anna

My main difficulty at the moment is trying to find an Irish supplier for these kinds of entry-level "prosumer" machines. Where did you all buy from?
I've only really found homecoffeemachines.ie that stock Rancilio, there don't seem to be any Gaggia or Lelit dealers in Ireland at all.

Cheers!

Have you got a grinder?

Cond0r

babybuilder wrote: »

Have you got a grinder?

Yes, but I'm also planning an upgrade for that (wilfa svart):
- Rancilio Rocky
- Ascaso i2 or i1
- Sage smart grinder pro

Enrico Palazzo

Lelit PL41TEM sold by Amazon.de Good quality in and out, brass boiler, PID. Better quality than GC, better value than Silvia. Price drops occasionally by a few tenners.

Cond0r

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

Lelit PL41TEM sold by Amazon.de Good quality in and out, brass boiler, PID. Better quality than GC, better value than Silvia. Price drops occasionally by a few tenners.

I just came across that today. Very tempted, Amazon are pretty good for returns under warranty.

Ult1mat3X

I’ll give you my home solution. I have a Nespresso EN560B. I make its version of espresso which is a passable facsimile but is not like a talented barista pulling real shots.

Then what I do is heat milk on the stove to 165-170 and dump it into a French press and then plunge it 10-15 times or so.

I use it to emulate a cortado. This is the low cost solution and is a pretty decent home version. If you have thousands to spend and lots of spare time to fiddle, get a real one.

Planet X

Either machine is good. I came from a Gaggia C./ Rocky doserless machine for a few years. Bought off the dreaded Coffee Italia as well. I'm still alive. No issues.

You'll have to learn to temperature surf with both machines. And, with the GC anyway, you'll have to get used to the energy saver mode which puts the machine to sleep (EU regs) after 15 minutes or so.

Other than that I'd have either machine.

korkkid

Old thread I know! <SNIP>

phelixoflaherty

Another vote for the Silvia, but would be improved by adding a PID. Easy to install €150.

The machine is easy to repair.

They turn up second hand from time to time. Althought some of the asking prices are off the charts.

Tom__jnr2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/112088484#Comment_112088484

So wrong to compere capsules to gaggia clasic or rancilio. So wrong!

Back to the topic. I have gaggia with opv and is so good. I added bottomless portafilter as well. If you drink milk coffee you can get away without opv but if do drink espresso is a must.

I looked at rancilio but found gaggia has more support online and could be easier to get modified.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117972033#Comment_117972033

Interesting . I definitely would recommend Silvia over Gaggia Classic, it is hardly a match, especially the latest Classic, not the old ones.

With Silvia it is Adjustable OPV ( no modifications needed) , Three way solenoid valve ( not exist on new Gaggia Classic) , better and bigger boiler ,

boiler insulation by factory etc...

Tom__jnr2

The classic has three way valve. The old and the new classic.

You can hazard the quess that opv is adjustable on classic as well. You open the machine and replace the spring as opposed to play with the bolt on rancilio.

Anyway, classic is perfect for the espresso so if that can be beaten by rancilio that must be really stunning machine.

alec76

Classics from 2015 and up don't have 3 way solenoid, unless it's changed recently with the latest models.

Replacing the spring is a hack but not adjusting the pressure to the desired numbers ( which could be different for other users , I am prefer 8.5 Bar for instance) i

Main concern is a tiny 100ml (300 ml in Silvia) boiler and build quality in Gaggia Classic though.

alec76

As for the espresso quality , both machines are well capable , it is up to skill set really. Steaming milk on Gaggia with 100 ml boiler could be challenging, regardless how good you are.

Tom__jnr2

@alec76 if you are not sure about something do not state like you know.

Fact check:

3 way is in new classic (RI9480)

Boiler is 130ml

Building quality is rather impressive

Replacing the spring is 5min top for anyone with no DIY skills and you can get spring for different pressure.

alec76

Fast check , Classic from 2015 till 2019 didn't have solenoid valve .

- As for the spring for different pressure..

How is it work precisely ? You do realise , every machine tuned differently by factory? In order to adjust pressure you must have a pressure gauge or measure amount of water leaving return valve ml/sec .

Let say your machine tuned 11bar by factory and next machine 9.5 bar. What spring would you get to make it 8.5 bar on both ?

Having said that , I am pretty sure that you wrong , saying SPRING is the only way to adjust pressure on Classic , sure you could do it differently , by adding extra washers etc to make precise adjuststments you just not aware of it.

But haven't you said , that Classic easy to modify than Silvia? That was very bold statement .

100ml boiler ( you said it is 130 ml) Don't you thing it is pathetic excuse? Compare to 300ml ( might be 330 ml btw) by Silvia?

As for the build quality... Did you know better? When you see both you'll see the difference.

alec76

I would recommend someone Classic if budget is tight and this machine still capable to pull perfect shot of Espresso .

But recommend Classic just because " better support and easy to modify ' it just FAKE.

Krusty_Clown

I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic to a Rancilio Sylvia and it really is an upgrade. The Classic was a great starter machine (my son still uses it every day), but the Sylvia is just better in almost every way. Based on years of ownership of both machines (3-5 shots per day), in my view, it is better made, sturdier, more easily modified, more consistent temperatures, much better steaming.

alec76

MeCoffee PID seems to back to business again

I’ve bought one in 2017 , I believe.

https://mecoffee.nl/order/

You definitely need BLE / IOS

version , regardless what phone you have iPhone/iPad or Android

plus you have to pay €5 for set of cables ( silvia or gagia Classic)

It is probably the most advanced PID for the budget. It does includes PUMP control , could dim the pump during the beginning of the shot , control pre-infusion time etc. ( to be fair , I didn’t find those features useful, I believe with good grinder and fresh beans you’ll see next to zero difference)

Only thing , I have to warn you , It is ONE PERSON company, so support wise …

There is no external monitor too ( everything goes through the APP via Bluetooth) . You don’t have to use app during the brewing though, it is only to apply new sittings really or unless you want to see fancy temperature log, shot timer etc. Once settings are set , you could just forget about the app .

There is app for iOS , widget for PC Chrome browser , but I couldn’t find android version app on Google Play anymore ( I do have it installed on my old phone , it is working fine , but for someone new , you have to look for APK file elsewhere)

I almost cried when read his blog :

https://mecoffee.nl/blog/the-straw-which-broke-me-and-mecoffees-back/

if you did PID it is make sense to insulate the boiler if your old Silvia came without it

https://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-boiler-insulation?_pos=1&_sid=8fb6e54f4&_ss=r