An awkward conversation with a friend

I have a friend who is a brilliant human being. Funny, caring, and very sensitive.

But now we're running a business together and although I'm hardly perfect myself, there are some aspects of his personality that frankly, make me cringe.

When he meets customers, he talks excessively about himself and about the business. I've tried to explain to him, without insulting him, that it's better to ask the customer about themselves and, in that way, let them feel part of the business.

It hasn't worked. He keeps monopolising conversations with clients where they can hardly get a word in edgeways.

The other thing is his writing. He is in charge of the firm's website. English is not his first language, yet he has an extremely good vocabulary. But he sometimes uses words, or phrases, that are too complex for your typical website (the man is a walking thesaurus), and I'd like to find a way of telling him to simplify things except (as I mentioned) he is very, very sensitive.

How do I approach this problem?

Have I mentioned that he is very sensitive?

callaway92

Is there something glaring/proof that his methods don’t work or are causing a loss in revenue/loss in potential revenue?

You sound very passive aggressive in your very last sentence.

wiggle16

I think with talking about himself a lot... you do need to consider if it actually bothers customers or if it just bothers you. I don't mean that in a snide way. I think when we find something annoying or grating or notice something and it starts to get on our nerves we tend to assume that it bothers everyone else just as much, when it might not. You notice it because you presumably spend most of the day with him. Many customers might not notice it, or might find him entertaining even.

Either way, it's unlikely you can do anything about the fact that he talks about himself to customers. If you've said it to him already and he hasn't taken it on board then he obviously doesn't see it as a problem and is not taking it seriously.

He might be more willing to listen to criticism if it's coming from something more impartial. Is there any way you can get customer feedback for both of you?

As for the website, if the grammar was poor then it would be a problem.... but as you say, he's like a thesaurus, I presume his English is quite good. The most you can do there really is say "I just saw you updated XYZ on the website - can we change "garrulous" to "chatty?" A lot of people aren't going to know what that means" if you notice something really out-there or indecipherable. Anything else is micromanaging territory. If he is in charge of the website then he is in charge of the website and that's that. I think you're in danger of heading down the road to souring the relationship if you start interfering in "his" bits of the business - and if he's very very sensitive then it's likely that that's how he will take it.

Customer feedback of some sort might help with some of this stuff, but only if you think his behaviour is actually hurting your business. If it's not, I'd leave it. I wouldn't risk souring a friendship or a business relationship because of a difference in the way you interact with customers or his personal quirks.

antix80

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've tried to explain to him, without insulting him, that it's better to ask the customer about themselves and, in that way, let them feel part of the business.

Why would a customer want to feel part of your business?

Your friend comes across as passionate about his work. Maybe he's right and your approach is wrong.

Your styles differ - no single approach is right or wrong. If you casually suggest he act differently, I don't see why he'd take that on board. It needs to be a defined business decision - how do we treat our customers? how do we want to shape the culture of the business? what's our brand and our brand style (e.g. using clear layman's terms vs. trying to impress with over-elaborate language)?

It sounds like you're currently taking a team-work approach to running the business, but when it comes to differing opinions, you need to have an agreed and defined method of deciding these things.

You could do this by separating each of your roles and allowing each partner to 'own' certain areas, or you could formally meet and document decisions together when they come up. This ensures you both have an equal and documented voice in how the business is run.

To be more specific in relation to the website stuff - you could always approach it as 'you're so eloquent, but a lot of our customer base wouldn't have the level of formal English you do'. As in basically, you're too great, too smart, too intelligent. Cushion the blow!

Rubberchikken

some customers would prefer someone who even talks about themselves as opposed to some businesses where a customer cant even get staff to address/acknowledge them.

if youre getting negative feedback from some customers then you need to discuss it with him. if not then maybe its best left for the moment.

i agree with the advice that if some of the words on the website are a bit 'heavy' then maybe a chat about changing some of them is due.

goodluck

tara73

Rubberchikken wrote: »

some customers would prefer someone who even talks about themselves as opposed to some businesses where a customer cant even get staff to address/acknowledge them.

if youre getting negative feedback from some customers then you need to discuss it with him. if not then maybe its best left for the moment.

thing is, I don't think any customer would tell him to his face on the spot, they just stay away and that's the problem, loosing customers because of his annyoying habit.

OP, I understand your concern. Did you observe reactions from customers? Are they tending to leave quickly or reacting irritated? You should make sure, as others said, whether it's just your own perception because you probably spend the whole day with him or if you can see loosing clients because of his behaviour.

If it's the latter, you need to address it again.

Definetely address the grammar or word choosing stuff. You are the native speaker, it's in the interest of his and your business to keep the website professional, so if he takes it personal he's acting childish and unprofessional.

As you describe him, I suspect there will be more issues with him in the future...

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

some customers would prefer someone who even talks about themselves.....

Certain Irish personalities lap this up and just can't get enough.
Think of the Barry's Tea ad.

I understand what you're saying OP but if businesses is not impacted just leave it alone.

InPsyDer

I think the risk of customers being put off is a fair one. There is a restaurant I really like in town that I never go to now because the owner is just way too full on, making a point of coming over to blither on and on about himself and the business and cooking classes he put on and so on.

In a light conversational way that would be fine but it's been to the point of irritation every time so I just don't go now. Some people probably love it but you'd definitely have plenty who don't.

How to get the guy you work with to find the happy medium will be tough alright. Could you run a little promo where the customer notes down what they did like and what they think could improve and then they are in a draw for a voucher or something? Could bring a few home truths to light!!

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Why would a customer want to feel part of your business?

Your friend comes across as passionate about his work. Maybe he's right and your approach is wrong.

He's definitely passionate. But when you order your lunch, you don't necessarily want the back-story as to how the inspiration from the dish came from this one trip to Argentina in 2007 and... (well, I won't bore you).

It's not that a customer will want to feel part of someone else's business, what I mean is that a business should show interest in the customer above their own interest in their own product.

It's becoming a problem. We've been friends for 12+ years and I'd rather let go of the business than lose him as a friend. It won't come to that, the business is doing fine. I just wish he'd be more focused on customers, and it's difficult to express to him how important that is without insulting him.

As a non-native English speaker, he takes pride (quite rightly) in his excellent command of the English language. The problem is that he sometimes is too verbose in his writing. I haven't yet been able to find a way of telling him to pare things back without seeming to criticise his writing style.

tara73 wrote: »

thing is, I don't think any customer would tell him to his face on the spot, they just stay away and that's the problem, loosing customers because of his annyoying habit.

OP, I understand your concern. Did you observe reactions from customers? Are they tending to leave quickly or reacting irritated? You should make sure, as others said, whether it's just your own perception because you probably spend the whole day with him or if you can see loosing clients because of his behaviour.

Customers and staff members. They haven't expressed irritation, but I've overheard a "yes but get to the point" comments (said jokingly) when something about some coffee was being explained in an excruciatingly long anecdote.

I totally get that this might be charming for some people, but most people don't care about their coffee's back-story. However interesting the story might be, the last thing anyone wants is their coffee or food to go cold while they're being regaled with memories of the Inca Trail or the hidden gems of Buenos Aires.

I'm usually fairly tactless, but I value this guy's friendship above the business. My trouble is in finding a way to navigate criticism without being seen to be too critical.

wiggle16

Could you try getting customers to fill out some kind of feedback sheet, like a kind of HOW DID WE DO TODAY type job?

Like I get what you're saying about wanting to know how to approach him but if he is that sensitive then it's likely there's no way of approaching him without getting his back up.

if i speak to a restaurant owner and they wanted to talk more about me than the food

id be weirded out tbh

OP, Have noted your latest spiel above. But...

A lot of your Irish customers are of the "culturally curious" in their interaction with the barista etc.
By "culturally curious" I mean listening to this "coffee origin story" makes the customer feel they have a slightly more level of expertise about the brew than the vagrant outside : the feeling is the important thing here.

kg703

Do you want one of us to leave a sly feedback on your google reviews saying 5 stars we love everything but maybe your man could tone it down a bit?

zoobizoo

I have in depth discussions with my local barista about rock music having see him wearing a Metallica t shirt.

I enjoy characters in the places I go to and it sounds like your friend is one such guy.

I've been in coffee shops where the person is over friendly in a fake way and I can't deal with that.

If it's a one sided barrage of his info coupled with a lack of awareness about when to shut up then that's an issue.

Is your pal annoying people as much as you think he is or do you just feel that he is?

zoobizoo

zoobizoo wrote: »

I have in depth discussions with my local barista about rock music having see him wearing a Metallica t shirt.

I enjoy characters in the places I go to and it sounds like your friend is one such guy.

I've been in coffee shops where the person is over friendly in a fake way and I can't deal with that.

If it's a one sided barrage of his info coupled with a lack of awareness about when to shut up then that's an issue.

Is your pal annoying people as much as you think he is or do you just feel that he is?

Some really interesting feedback here. It's entirely possible that I'm just being a bit paranoid.

But he does have a reputation in our group of friends as tending to talk a lot, in great detail, about his travels. Personally, I like this. It's usually interesting to me, but I really doubt whether most customers want to hear it.

I totally take your point about fakeness. I'm confident that above all else he never comes across as being fake (he simply isn't that way).

I love his passion, I just worry that customers might not always need to know about it. For context, this is a rural business and we're not serving the kind of demographic that tends to be curious about back stories. My impression is that people just want to walk out with good coffee without unnecessary conversation.

I'm not worried about the business, that will be fine. My concern is how he's perceived. I really feel bad saying this, but Im worried he might be making himself the butt of some local jokes.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if i speak to a restaurant owner and they wanted to talk more about me than the food

id be weirded out tbh

Of course. But wouldn't you find it even slightly off-putting if a barista spoke to you at length about their life, without even asking your name?

There's a certain amount of give and take in any natural conversation. If someone only ever talks about themselves and their product, it can sometimes become tedious.

At least, it would do so for me.

kg703

I’ve had a few encounters with people in retail where they’d full on tell me about how their day is going, or something about themselves. Myself and my husband encountered a girl in a shop recently who had a big chat with us even though we were only getting a bottle of water. It’s a bit unusual but I like it, makes it feel you are buying from a real person rather than the fake nicities forced upon you most of the time.

Why don’t you put a suggestion box with some feedback forms and a small sign saying ‘Hey, we are new enough and would love to know how we can improve’. Encourage customers to use them and if they find him annoying and it’s a local joke 100% you’ll hear it. They could love him though!

baby and crumble

i can't help with the customer service issue (frankly I find people who **** on about coffee in general to be the most excruciating people in the world) but if you're getting enough customers in a rural area then you must have returning customers. Which means it's not effecting business - you said yourself the business is fine.

As regards the website - are you sure many people are visiting the site? For a cafe or a restaurant then all you need on a website is a menu and opening hours. Even then how likely are people to actually use it enough that they'll be put off by the content? If you really want to, you could get some anonymous feedback from visitors or from family and friends, or even get someone to look at it from an accessibility point of view, which is good practice anyway.

zoobizoo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

My concern is how he's perceived.....Im worried he might be making himself the butt of some local jokes.

You know - he sounds like an interesting character - if that's how he is, that's how he is. I wouldn't worry about what others think of him. Some people will like the interaction, some won't.

Some people are interested in hearing stories and they will interact accordingly. Others will nod and walk away - it hardly makes a difference to them.

I know a guy who owns a coffee shop and he comes across all friendly asking people how they are etc - I've never seen anything like it - it's all "lovely day" "How are ya?" and he comes out with multiple platitudes that if you see it often enough, comes across as fake. There's nothing genuine about it.

Which would you rather?

ongarboy

Is the restaurant on trip advisor? Check out any negative reviews there about your partners OTT descriptions of the food or himself. This reminds me of an award winning restaurant in my home town where one of the owners does exactly what you say your partner is doing. Going on and on about the food, where it was sourced, foraged, minute details about the ingredients etc some people love it , some hate it. I found it mildly irritating but it wouldn't stop me going back as the food was good. Trip advisor had loads of rave reviews....but also many reviews criticizing this owner's OTT food descriptions. The only criticism I had of him was he took all criticism personally and crucified any critic online with a "how dare you " and why didn't you say it to my face type responses. Amusing to read.

You can guage customer reactions by checking Trip Advisor for reviews to see if customers in general irritated.

Thanks for all the responses, guys. Some really good points here.

We are on TripAdvisor and we do have a comments box at the bottom of the cafe (so anonymous), and nobody has complained.

As for the website, that's aimed at new cafés and coffee distribution, and so it's more difficult to tell if people have been put off by the writing. But if customers aren't being put off, there's no reason to think businesses are.

My friend's manner still irks me, but having re-evaluated this 'problem' with neutral opinions, I agree with most of you that the problem may be my own! Thanks for all the advice and feedback, it was very reassuring.

wiggle16

As you appear to have reached a resolution to your issue, I am going to close this thread.

Best of luck with your business

Thanks & grma all who posted.

Thread locked.