Deed of transfer and power of attorney

GGTrek

I am referring to the deed of transfer necessary for registered land:
https://www.prai.ie/transfers-of-registered-land/


In particular to the requirement that in Ireland the deed of transfer has to be signed personally by the transferors and a donee of a power of attorney (even if witnessed by an Irish solicitor) cannot sign a deed of transfer of registered land in the name of the donors.



What I find surprising is that the Contract for Sale of Land would be valid if signed by the donee of the power of attorney, but not the deed of transfer even for a property that is not subject to the Family Home Protection Act 1976 (BTL property).



I have been looking for a statute defining that a deed of transfer can only be signed personally by the transferor and I cannot find it.



Any help in where to find the statute defining this rule would be very much appreciated.

nuac

Mod
Suggest you speak to one of the solicitors acting in the matter
Will leave open for general discussion subject to forum rule on legal advice

Peregrinus

Your link doesn't say that the transfer can't be executed by an attorney of the transferor, so far as I can see.

mickuhaha

Ask a solicitor or try Land Law In Ireland - 4th Edition or check the legislation starting here up to 2012
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1896/act/47/enacted/en/print.html ,
Your link is only practice directions for the prai itself which would presumably be their interpretation of some legal statue.

GGTrek

mickuhaha wrote: »

Ask a solicitor or try Land Law In Ireland - 4th Edition or check the legislation starting here up to 2012
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1896/act/47/enacted/en/print.html ,
Your link is only practice directions for the prai itself which would presumably be their interpretation of some legal statue.

I asked to three solicitors and I got the same exact answer: "it has to be signed personally, attorney cannot sign", however none of them pointed me to which statute or which regulation determines this. I have a strong feeling that in all three cases it was a "this is how we usually do things here and it simplifies my workload".



In the US or UK and in most civil law jurisdictions it is perfectly possible to transfer registered land through a power of attorney (in many cases there is a requirement that the power of attorney is reviewed and witnessed by a solicitor/public notary/consular official). I find it very odd that in Ireland this is not possible.


I shall check Law Land in Ireland, I guess this is the 4th edition you were referring to:
https://legalbooks.ie/collections/land-property-landlord-tenant-law/products/land_law_in_ireland_p-b


I shall also go in person to the PRAI in Dublin to make an enquiry.



Thank you

mickuhaha

GGTrek wrote: »

I asked to three solicitors and I got the same exact answer: "it has to be signed personally, attorney cannot sign", however none of them pointed me to which statute or which regulation determines this. I have a strong feeling that in all three cases it was a "this is how we usually do things here and it simplifies my workload".



In the US or UK and in most civil law jurisdictions it is perfectly possible to transfer registered land through a power of attorney (in many cases there is a requirement that the power of attorney is reviewed and witnessed by a solicitor/public notary/consular official). I find it very odd that in Ireland this is not possible.


I shall check Law Land in Ireland, I guess this is the 4th edition you were referring to:
https://legalbooks.ie/collections/land-property-landlord-tenant-law/products/land_law_in_ireland_p-b


I shall also go in person to the PRAI in Dublin to make an enquiry.



Thank you

I understand your position , have a read here (note 8) , it suggests depending on the situation you may be able , just ring the prai on the phone and you will get your answer,

https://www.prai.ie/powers-of-attorney-act-1996-legal-office-notice-32010/

Peregrinus

Also check out note 9 in the document to which mickuhaha links. It sets out certain PRAI forms which can't be executed under a power of attorney because they contain attestations of knowledge, and the donee of a power of attorney cannot attest to what the donor may or many not know.

GGTrek

Peregrinus wrote: »

Also check out note 9 in the document to which mickuhaha links. It sets out certain PRAI forms which can't be executed under a power of attorney because they contain attestations of knowledge, and the donee of a power of attorney cannot attest to what the donor may or many not know.

The deed of transfer is form 19 (I know because I personally signed one a month ago) which is not covered by the exceptions. I shall first speak personally with the PRAI officers (they are located next to the Four Courts) and then if PRAI officers confirm that it can be done through power of attorney I shall look for another solicitor that is willing to do the extra work without wasting my time and my money for his own little benefit.

randomrb

As has been said already the only thing you can't sign with power of attorney is a statutory declaration.

Now the issue may be in this case that although you say it is not a family home you still need a declaration stated that it is not. That may be what they need the origional for not the deed itself

mickuhaha

Any update on this out of interest?