Rad rusting from inside out

anewme

Our estate is having problems where rads are rusting snd bubbling rusting from inside out.

Today a chap came to replace radiator in utility room from this.

He said I might have to paint around joinings.

No issue.

But, huge holes were left around the pipes joining the rad.

He put in filler, but it looks lumpy and uneven.

K.Flyer

He put some filler into holes in the pipes connected to the radiators ???
What sort of filler?

Citizenpain

I assume he means in the wall

anewme

K.Flyer wrote: »

He put some filler into holes in the pipes connected to the radiators ???
What sort of filler?

Sorry im ballsing up here.

Hammering and clattering at the radiatior meant the sectiion around the pipes joining is likes someone took a hatchet

Area around the joining pipes.

Looks terrible.

Is this normal. How can i fix it.

K.Flyer

Citizenpain wrote: »

I assume he means in the wall

that's what I get for not reading something correctly while watching t.v.

Dtp1979

anewme wrote: »

Sorry im ballsing up here.

Hammering and clattering at the radiatior meant the sectiion around the pipes joining is likes someone took a hatchet to them.

Looks terrible.

Pic,??

mickdw

Get someone to check your system as they shouldn't be rusting from inside.
In the old days it mean a lot of fresh water was being taken I to the system - more oxygen, more rust. Not sure how the modern sealed systems work but certainly worth looking at.
Filler, sand paper and paint should solve you other issue but I don't quite see why he should cause such damage in replacing like for like.

anewme

mickdw wrote: »

Get someone to check your system as they shouldn't be rusting from inside.
In the old days it mean a lot of fresh water was being taken I to the system - more oxygen, more rust. Not sure how the modern sealed systems work but certainly worth looking at.
Filler, sand paper and paint should solve you other issue but I don't quite see why he should cause such damage in replacing like for like.

A load of people in thev Estate have this issue.

He said he had to hammer to get one rad out and the other one in.

Ive turned the heating on end this new rad fitted today is not heating at all.

Lost all where to go from here.

Pissed off.

anewme

Weird as it sounds, im totally stressed out by this. Its outside my comfort zone.

I know nothing about radiators, so i expect the people who call to fix it.

Now, it looks scaldy at the joinings, plus its not heating up.

Damien360

It's a bank holiday weekend and you won't get a plumber. But, when you do next week, get a different one. If I am reading correctly, a plumber put in a rad but never tested it ? Did you get a handyman or a plumber ? Is this a old system or a new one ? Old pipes, how old, as old as the house of what age ? Sealed system ?

Hal3000

anewme wrote: »

Our estate is having problems where rads are rusting snd bubbling rusting from inside out.

Today a chap came to replace radiator in utility room from this.

He said I might have to paint around joinings.

No issue.

But, huge holes were left around the pipes joining the rad.

He put in filler, but it looks lumpy and uneven.

Explain this more clearly or provide a picture and perhaps people can help you out.

anewme

Thanks Damien.

House is about 11 years old.

Yea, new rad put in. It rusted from inside out. Others in Estate have same problem. Ive previously had same problem upstairs.

Both were small rads.

Handyman, but Plumber by trade.

Turned on heating last night snd its not heating up.

Its only a utility room so its not the end of the world, but I want it to work. Think it will be a call back. Filler round the pipes dried out this morning, dosent look too bad.

anewme

photo

Tullogher

You need inhibitor in your rads or they will all rust including your boiler. Then turn on the valves at both sides of the rad and bleed the rad. Google it to see how to do it all.

Doing nothing will cause leaks.

Dtp1979

Tullogher wrote: »

You need inhibitor in your rads or they will all rust including your boiler. Then turn on the valves at both sides of the rad and bleed the rad. Google it to see how to do it all.

Doing nothing will cause leaks.

Adding inhibitor to a corroded system will only worsen the problem

Tullogher

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Adding inhibitor to a corroded system will only worsen the problem

Says who. Its better than letting them all continue to corrode

anewme

Tullogher wrote: »

Says who. Its better than letting them all continue to corrode

It seems to be a big issue. Lots of neighbours have the same.

K.Flyer

Tullogher wrote: »

Says who. Its better than letting them all continue to corrode

Firing inhibitor into a dirty system reduces the effects of the inhibitor.
Best practice is to first flush the system clean to remove sludge and loose debris.
Then dose with inhibitors and maybe a sealant treatment, fitting a magnetic filter would the right thing to do.

From the Fernox website..

We recommend untreated or sludged systems are thoroughly cleansed and flushed in accordance with BS7593 and Benchmark before treating with Fernox Protector F1, as existing debris can damage the installation

Wearb

It's not a lack of inhibitor that caused such a severe problem, unless the initial filling water was off the scale. I know of lots of systems that doesn't have inhibitor (due to drain-downs for one reason or another) and it chugs along nicely. It is best practice to add an inhibitor to a clean system.
I would like to throw an eye over those installations. Open vented, or closed with an auto filler fitted. Leaks or an extra heat source badly plumbed. Pump in wrong position. Expansion vessels with with wrong charge or too small.
The fact that all those houses are like that suggests one of the above.

OP can you tell us the heat source(s) and if its open or vented?

anewme

Thanks for the advice all. I’ve no idea if it’s open or vented. whatever way they are fitted. They don’t even seem to be able to turn them on and off. They just keep spinning around.

The immersion went about five years ago and hasn’t worked since. Other neighbours have replaced theirs.

New house 11 years ago, clearly v poor work

Wearb

anewme wrote: »

Thanks for the advice all. I’ve no idea if it’s open or vented. whatever way they are fitted. They don’t even seem to be able to turn them on and off. They just keep spinning around.

The immersion went about five years ago and hasn’t worked since. Other neighbours have replaced theirs.

New house 11 years ago, clearly v poor work

Post a pic of the hotpress, standing back far enough to get in as much as possible.
Do you have multiple heat sources? What are they?

Tullogher

anewme wrote: »

It seems to be a big issue. Lots of neighbours have the same.

Thats because they were all done by same contractor if in a housing estate.

Markcheese

Is it the new rad that's the problem, or the filling around the pipes on the wall,??
(I'm not sure why he didn't test to make sure the rad came on, and balance the system...

Be prepared for a big bill soon, if all you're neighbours rads are going and so is yours then there's an issue.. And you're going to need to find the problem rather than just fix the symptoms..
(what's your heat source? Oil boiler, gas, solid fuel??)

Tullogher

Lack of inhibitor causes rusty rads.

K.Flyer

Tullogher wrote: »

Lack of inhibitor causes rusty rads.

A leaking system being constantly topped up with fresh water can do more harm.

Dtp1979

Tullogher wrote: »

Lack of inhibitor causes rusty rads.

No it Dosent. Stop listening to the salesman behind the counter.

Tullogher

Dtp1979 wrote: »

No it Dosent. Stop listening to the salesman behind the counter.

Also stop listening to people who think it doesn't help. Its science and water chemistry but don't mind that fact. Hearsay always wins over fact.

Read this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cibse.org/getmedia/76229a96-c37e-4d2f-b4f9-7d62ba62bab4/Guide-B1-appendix.pdf.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwj1_6Wu-8riAhW3QhUIHcyFAzYQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2bboSQvVnKjLMMMOp8qUAF

CoBo55

Tullogher wrote: »

Also stop listening to people who think it doesn't help. Its science and water chemistry but don't mind that fact. Hearsay always wins over fact.

My system is 19 years old, never had inhibitor, one radiator replaced rusted from the outside.

Tullogher

CoBo55 wrote: »

My system is 19 years old, never had inhibitor, one radiator replaced rusted from the outside.

Lucky you!

Dtp1979

Tullogher wrote: »

Also stop listening to people who think it doesn't help. Its science and water chemistry but don't mind that fact. Hearsay always wins over fact.

Read this.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cibse.org/getmedia/76229a96-c37e-4d2f-b4f9-7d62ba62bab4/Guide-B1-appendix.pdf.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwj1_6Wu-8riAhW3QhUIHcyFAzYQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2bboSQvVnKjLMMMOp8qUAF

Yea, that link says “cleaned” systems should be regularity topped up. It Dosent say that you should add to a dirty system, which is what I’m saying. Again, not adding inhibitor will not cause rusting radiators. It may however, cause sludge buildup over time.
Rusting is oxidation.
Oxidation is adding fresh oxidised water to a system. This doesn’t happen because of the lack of inhibitor.

John.G

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yea, that link says “cleaned” systems should be regularity topped up. It Dosent say that you should add to a dirty system, which is what I’m saying. Again, not adding inhibitor will not cause rusting radiators. It may however, cause sludge buildup over time.
Rusting is oxidation.
Oxidation is adding fresh oxidised water to a system. This doesn’t happen because of the lack of inhibitor.

Fernox call their MB-1 "Central Heating Protector" https://fernox.com/product/protector-mb-1-4l/ but without a doubt continual make up for whatever reason results in a very very short rad life, I have seen one system where some of the rads failed in < 2 years due to this and have seen some open vented systems which never saw any form of protection with some rads > 25 years old.

I have some rads > 40 years old in a open vented system but I have always kept a "drop" of protection in the system. I have a dedicated isolating gate valve fitted to the F&E tank ballcock which I keep closed at all times, I open it approx once/month to check for any leaks but the tank never needs any make up water.

Tullogher

John.G wrote: »

Fernox call their MB-1 "Central Heating Protector" https://fernox.com/product/protector-mb-1-4l/ but without a doubt continual make up for whatever reason results in a very very short rad life, I have seen one system where some of the rads failed in < 2 years due to this and have seen some open vented systems which never saw any form of protection with some rads > 25 years old.

I have some rads > 40 years old in a open vented system but I have always kept a "drop" of protection in the system. I have a dedicated isolating gate valve fitted to the F&E tank ballcock which I keep closed at all times, I open it approx once/month to check for any leaks but the tank never needs any make up water.

So it's accepted inhibitor is good and helps.

Dtp1979

Tullogher wrote: »

So it's accepted inhibitor is good and helps.

Yes, nobody is denying that. But that logic only applies when the inhibitor is used correctly.