Festool Domino 500 vs the 700

Calahonda52

Looking at these at the moment.

The 500 comes with the 5mm cutter : leaving the 4,6,8,10 for additional purchasing
with dowel depth of cut from 12 to 28.
The 700 comes with the 12mm cutter: leaving the 8,10,14 for additional purchasing
with dowel depth of cut from 15 to 70.
Can't see on their site what the additional cutters cost

I am told the 700 is a big beast, 5.2 kg (3.2kg for the 500) and due to the 8mm dowel being the smallest, it is restricted to bigger work.
Would welcome any insights, do folk just stick with one or two cutters and dowels or what.
Thanks as always.

ps
looking on line, you can get an adaptor for the 700 to use with the 500 bits...

recipio

I think most folk recommend the 500 for general cabinetry. It is simply more versatile than the 700. I use the Beadlock system sold by Rockler in the US for loose tenon joinery at a fraction of the cost.

dogg_r_69

They're a fantastic machine We bought ours at a demonstration and bought a box of various size domino's with the full set of cutter Think twas about 1k but can't remember exactly.
We use the 6 & 8 mainly but have used the 10mm rarely and the 5mm less often than that. It does depend on what you're joining though.

Calahonda52

recipio wrote: »

I think most folk recommend the 500 for general cabinetry. It is simply more versatile than the 700. I use the Beadlock system sold by Rockler in the US for loose tenon joinery at a fraction of the cost.

Thanks, what the max size of material you use with it?

the_pen_turner

i have the 500
its brillliant. its one of those tools that really changes the way you work, similar to getting a track saw


if its smaller stuff your building then the 500 would be perfect
i want a 700 but cant justify it until i get a big job that its needed for. of rht eodd time i needed a larger joint i did it with a homemde jig adn a router

not sure about the adapter. probably ok if you are doing an odd small job but i would rather have the 500 for smaller stuff


buy the assortment systainer with it . its well worth the cost. you get the cutters and a noce selection of tennons.

if you can wait ,you should go to the festool roadshow in ronaynes on the 26th of june. vinny will let you play with both .




get a dominoplate for it , you willl not regret it. turns a great tool into an amazing tool. 95% of my dominoing is with the domino plate

recipio

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks, what the max size of material you use with it?

You mean the Beadlock system.? It uses drill bits to make the mortise so you are limited to 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 ". It works on joinery up to 1/1/2 inch wide and you can go wider with a double mortise and tenon. Also you can buy router bits to make your own tenon stock.
I hate milling away expensive hardwood to make conventional tenons so this is a great alternative.

Calahonda52

recipio wrote: »

You mean the Beadliock system.? It uses drill bits to make the mortice so you are limited to 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 ". It works on joinery up to 1/1/2 inch wide and you can go wider with a double mortice and tenon. Also you can buy router bits to make your own tenon stock.
I hate milling away expensive hardwood to make conventional tenons so this is a great alternative.

Thanks recipio, yes it was the BL system I was talking about.

Do you put the radius on the tenons in one or two passes?

recipio

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks recipio, yes it was the BL system I was talking about.

Do you put the radius on the tenons in one or two passes?

Yes, the tool depends on making a 'corrugated' mortise so you need the same on the tenons. The router bit makes the 'corrugations ' on the tenons with just one pass on each face. Its worth using a featherboard to hold the piece tight to the fence -- you can of course just buy the tenons online.
I like that you can use a super strong wood like oak to make the tenons and you get a piston like precision fit.I made a set of Dining chairs a few years ago and the joints haven't budged.
Its a bit of a poor mans mortise and tenon set and the Festool is certainly faster - at a cost of course

Calahonda52

recipio wrote: »

Yes, the tool depends on making a 'corrugated' mortise so you need the same on the tenons. The router bit makes the 'corrugations ' on the tenons with just one pass on each face. Its worth using a featherboard to hold the piece tight to the fence -- you can of course just buy the tenons online.
I like that you can use a super strong wood like oak to make the tenons and you get a piston like precision fit.I made a set of Dining chairs a few years ago and the joints haven't budged.
Its a bit of a poor mans mortise and tenon set and the Festool is certainly faster - at a cost of course

Thanks for this.
When I had the cancer diagnosis 4 years ago I sold off a lot of my gear so I am starting from scratch again.
I am three years post surgery so still inside the 5 year window.

I don't have a router, or a router table, or router bits so to make the loose tenon, I am guessing I need a router/specific bits and a router table with fence etc.
What router bit do you use for making the loose tenons?

I also have limited room for items such as router tables, I suppose I could recess it into the wood working bench

I agree the Festool is faster etc but perhaps over kill.
My main project is a making a glass house so will be more advanced first fix rather than fine cabinet work

recipio

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks for this.
When I had the cancer diagnosis 4 years ago I sold off a lot of my gear so I am starting from scratch again.
I am three years post surgery so still inside the 5 year window.

I don't have a router, or a router table, or router bits so to make the loose tenon, I am guessing I need a router/specific bits and a router table with fence etc.
What router bit do you use for making the loose tenons?

I also have limited room for items such as router tables, I suppose I could recess it into the wood working bench

I agree the Festool is faster etc but perhaps over kill.
My main project is a making a glass house so will be more advanced first fix rather than fine cabinet work

Lots to consider there. Firstly you can buy the tenon stock - I use a forwarding agency like Shipito in the US but I wouldn't be surprised if you can find them online in Europe.
Using M+T joints in a greenhouse is going to be difficult - all joints will need a sash clamp to bring them together and you will need good plans and the space to assemble the various frames etc .
In fact the Festool mortises are more of a 'push fit' and might suit you better.
I am actually in the middle of building a greenhouse using a combination of stainless steel screws and pocket hole joinery. I wish I had found a set of plans before starting :eek:
Best of luck with your health issues .

dathi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pAdxA1fc8

if you vary the spacing of the horizontal bars for the glazing you could just screw them into the vertical bars and plug the screw holes. something like what they have done on front of above

Calahonda52

dathi wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8pAdxA1fc8

if you vary the spacing of the horizontal bars for the glazing you could just screw them into the vertical bars and plug the screw holes. something like what they have done on front of above

Thanks, another one here: 8 by 10 feet, IIRC
https://www.buildeazy.com/greenhouse-1.php

Calahonda52

So the roadshow is in Thurles tomorrow, can't be there, but am in discussion with them about a domino plus extraction.
Are the extractors over priced?
Anyone have one?

They are doing "deals on saws plus guides", which will keep for a day or so after the roadshow

the_pen_turner

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So the roadshow is in Thurles tomorrow, can't be there, but am in discussion with them about a domino plus extraction.
Are the extractors over priced?
Anyone have one?

They are doing "deals on saws plus guides", which will keep for a day or so after the roadshow

i dont think they are over priced. i have the ct 22 and midi. both brilliant. not cheap but they have great suction. some of the bigger ones are too expensive for what extra you get . that capacity costs a lot extra. i would (and did) spend the extra on the reusable bags . they are great for chips and larger dust. if im sanding alot i swap over to a disposable bag i have left under the reusable one.

i would go for the midi . its bigger than the mini but very little more.
im considering getting another midi and leaving the ct22 in the shop to save sace in the van


ken and mark are great. i have dealt with ken for years. if they can hold a deal for you they will. im sure vinny (the festool rep) would help you out as well.

its a pity you cant make it . phil beckley is suposed to be demoing the new sawstop technology in the new festool table saw

Calahonda52

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i dont think they are over priced. i have the ct 22 and midi. both brilliant. not cheap but they have great suction. some of the bigger ones are too expensive for what extra you get . that capacity costs a lot extra. i would (and did) spend the extra on the reusable bags . they are great for chips and larger dust. if im sanding alot i swap over to a disposable bag i have left under the reusable one.

i would go for the midi . its bigger than the mini but very little more.
im considering getting another midi and leaving the ct22 in the shop to save sace in the van


ken and mark are great. i have dealt with ken for years. if they can hold a deal for you they will. im sure vinny (the festool rep) would help you out as well.

its a pity you cant make it . phil beckley is suposed to be demoing the new sawstop technology in the new festool table saw

Thank you!
I don't see the ct22 listed here?

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/dust-extraction

mark is suggesting the CTL 26

the_pen_turner

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That you!
I don't see the ct22 listed here?

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/dust-extraction

mark is suggesting the CTL 26

22 is the older model and was replaced by the 26.

chillyspoon

recipio wrote: »

Yes, the tool depends on making a 'corrugated' mortise so you need the same on the tenons. The router bit makes the 'corrugations ' on the tenons with just one pass on each face. Its worth using a featherboard to hold the piece tight to the fence -- you can of course just buy the tenons online.
I like that you can use a super strong wood like oak to make the tenons and you get a piston like precision fit.I made a set of Dining chairs a few years ago and the joints haven't budged.
Its a bit of a poor mans mortise and tenon set and the Festool is certainly faster - at a cost of course

Very, very interesting - I haven't seen BeadLock before; will definitely check that out. I wonder if there's a metric knock-off on Banggood.com (there usually is!)

recipio

chillyspoon wrote: »

Very, very interesting - I haven't seen BeadLock before; will definitely check that out. I wonder if there's a metric knock-off on Banggood.com (there usually is!)

Ha Ha ! - anything from the U.S. will be imperial unfortunately. The fit of the Beadlock joints is tight - you will need a clamp to bring them together whereas the Festool is a bit more forgiving. However too many M+T joints fail if the fit is too sloppy especially on chair rail to leg joints.

Calahonda52

Festool are doing an offer from now to end august on a selection of gear where they give a 100 euro refund once the tools are registered by the shop with them.

Calahonda52

Want to do some external woodwork using the Domino and I see that they don't recommend the beech tenons.
Are the Sipo ones essential?
If i soak the beech ones in clear protim preservative
a: will they swell
b: will the glue not work?

the_pen_turner

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Want to do some external woodwork using the Domino and I see that they don't recommend the beech tenons.
Are the Sipo ones essential?
If i soak the beech ones in clear protim preservative
a: will they swell
b: will the glue not work?

I don't think I would take the risk.
you could make a few dominoes yourself from the same material.

Calahonda52

Thanks.
I have a call scheduled with Mark this morning, they are doing deliveries so may just buy some as I don't have the tech to make then easily.

Am looking at making frames from 2" by 2" PT timber and would like to use two floating tenons in each joint: lets say 48 mm

IIRC normal rules would be 1/3 so lets say 16.
If I split the 16 into 2, then, using 2 by 8mm floating tenons, would 10/8/12/8/10 be a good mix?

tabby aspreme

Hafele have some Festool equipment on their Facebook clearance page, including Domino biscuits.

Calahonda52

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Hafele have some Festool equipment on their Facebook clearance page, including Domino biscuits.

Thanks.

chillyspoon

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Hafele have some Festool equipment on their Facebook clearance page, including Domino biscuits.

I didn't even know that page exists -> now I'm doomed; some good prices!!

Calahonda52

chillyspoon wrote: »

I didn't even know that page exists -> now I'm doomed; some good prices!!

I share your economic pain:D

Calahonda52

The puzzle is in the first picture, cutting the slot at 22.5 degrees is the puzzle.
I did come up with a solution but the piece gets very small and dangerous in the chop-saw and it has to be screwed to the bench to cut the dowels: not an issue here but is still an extra task. There are 12 required

The timber is 26 mm thick.

the other question I have is how do you cut angles that are greater than 45 degrees.
Am making triangular garden cloches and the two angels are 22.5 and 67.5
The 67.5 is puzzle

the_pen_turner

what I have done in the past is get a triangle of ply and clamp it to the saw and use that to get the extra angle. if the piece is small then add another bit of ply under it to create a rebate for the piece to sit in and use a few toggle clamps to clamp against that rebate

Calahonda52

Got hold of some oak and mahogany and accost at the weekend so am thinking about making my own 14 mm hardwood tenons
I have rip saw and a planer so what else do I need to make them
in lengths?
All the videos online say you need a router table with rounder bit?

ps

looking here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xPBTlszHoE
what is the wedge for at 4:37
in picture below

Double Barrel

Cala
Up with a mare.

The wedge is to keep offcuts away from the blade. :cool:

Take care