Surviving Gross Misconduct hearing and not being hired

JacenSolo

Hi. I am having trouble in work and I being called up for Gross Misconduct. As I am fearful my employer could see this post I will not outline the details. I am simply looking to hear from others that faced Gross Misconduct charges and avoided being dismissed. I kinda need to be told that it is a possibility (I accept that) but that it is not the ONLY outcome and I have a possibility of keeping my job. As my job is a large MNC I particularly interested in hearing from those in similar positions but any replies will be greatly appreciated

fritzelly

Gross misconduct is very serious
Make sure you have a Union rep with you at the meeting, if not part of a union then another work colleague, so s/he can challenge anything that may be classed as spurious as you will not be in the right frame of mind to process anything being said

Very good chance you will be fired immediately but only you know why its happening

Jim2007

JacenSolo wrote: »

Hi. I am having trouble in work and I being called up for Gross Misconduct. As I am fearful my employer could see this post I will not outline the details. I am simply looking to hear from others that faced Gross Misconduct charges and avoided being dismissed. I kinda need to be told that it is a possibility (I accept that) but that it is not the ONLY outcome and I have a possibility of keeping my job. As my job is a large MNC I particularly interested in hearing from those in similar positions but any replies will be greatly appreciated

Well gross misconduct at an MNC is about as serious as it gets. You can expect that they will have had training in how to handle this and most likely will be following a procedure set out by their legal people. If you did not commit the offense and you can repudiate their evidence, then you might survive... at least for a while, but there is no future in it.

Glass fused light

fritzelly wrote: »

Make sure you have a Union rep with you at the meeting, if not part of a union then another work colleague, so s/he can challenge anything that may be classed as spurious as you will not be in the right frame of mind to process anything being said

The person is there as support not as a representative, and won't /should not take an active part. The best that the person can do is take notes.

fritzelly wrote: »

Very good chance you will be fired immediately but only you know why its happening

with a big company they should have a formal process which will take time. Failure to follow the process is why most companies loose unfair dismissal cases, not because the employee was dismissed unfairly. The first meeting is normaly the start of the information gathering stage where the OP is presented with the facts of the gross misconduct. The OP is under no obligation to give an immediate response.

OP If the act and facts surrounding the GM are incorrect you have an chance to make a case to correct them.

But as Jim2007 points out with a MNC the process involves departments outside the immediate team so the GM act has been independently reviewed and deemed serious enough to merit firing the OP. if the act happened then the process is just the company getting its ducks in a row.

_Brian

Have never ever brought an employee this far and not result in them being fired. Have never heard of employees not being fired.

Manager will only go this far without certainty of the facts unless a complete fool.

punisher5112

If you haven't done anything wrong or procedures aren't followed bring a case against your employer to the WRC.

I've had it done to me and I used the union and also brought a case against employer to wrc as procedures weren't followed and also I hadn't done anything to the point of being sacked and the penalty was found to be way over the top.


Bigger story to it but you can fight it.

oLoonatic

If you are being brought up on gross misconduct. do you actually want to work there, or are you able for the job! seems a bit strange.

drunkmonkey

Are you even in this job 12mts, odds are your fired but I'm surprised they didn't fire you without any meeting as they don't need to give you the courtesy so there me be a little hope there you can hang on to the job if they believe you won't do it again and have been good since the incident.

3DataModem

Sorry OP, Gross Misconduct is going to be a firing most likely.

Get your frame of mind into negotiating your exit; they will probably escort you from the final meeting to the door. Offer to resign so you get paid notice. Don't sign anything, no matter what, unless they are paying you to go quietly.

Good luck.

_Brian

3DataModem wrote: »

Sorry OP, Gross Misconduct is going to be a firing most likely.

Get your frame of mind into negotiating your exit; they will probably escort you from the final meeting to the door. Offer to resign so you get paid notice. Don't sign anything, no matter what, unless they are paying you to go quietly.

Good luck.

Allowing an employee to resign is a bad move. It literally can be taken against the company as constructive dismissal.

You can’t say to an employee “resign or be fired”, that’s lazy management and very risky.

Dial Hard

Yep, I was investigated for gross misconduct in a previous job (for a Boards post, ironically).

Step 1 was I was called into a meeting with HR , my boss and the rep from my agency (I was an outsourced role at the time) first thing one morning. They explained what was happening and why. I was told I was being put on paid leave while they investigated and they would call me back in for a second meeting with the results of the investigation and that I was entitled to have a colleague with me for that meeting (non union company). I went home straight after the meeting. Stayed home the next day too and then was called back the day after that for the actual hearing. I chose not to bring anyone to the meeting with me (but my agency handler was there again).

Before they began I was given an opportunity to give my side of the story/plead my case. I explained that the post in question was made in good faith, at 10pm on a Friday evening and that I wasn't thinking with my company hat on. I apologised heartily and told them I had closed my Boards account as a gesture of good faith. Their response was that they appreciated the gesture and had already decided not to dismiss me and that disciplinary action would be limited to me not receiving my performance bonus that year. Thanks a million and off you go back up to your desk.

As it happened, my boss got a bit tipsy at the Christmas party that year and told me the whole thing was "a stupid nonsense" and I ended up getting 90% of my bonus. I stayed in the company another two years and left on good terms for a better opportunity.

I realise my case is probably an exception to the point of being almost unheard of, but I just wanted to relate my experience.

(And there's no point in trawling my post history looking for the post in question, I did close that account :pac:)

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

That’s mad, Dial Hard! :eek: Glad it worked out okay. You dealt with it well. Eye-opening stuff.

Guy:Incognito

What was the post about? Were you giving out about the company or something? How did they know it was you?

Wanderer2010

_Brian wrote: »

Allowing an employee to resign is a bad move. It literally can be taken against the company as constructive dismissal.

You can’t say to an employee “resign or be fired”, that’s lazy management and very risky.

Actually I have seen that done before where they caught an employee falsifying results and there was no way the employee could justify it so they gave them the option of either quitting with a bad reference or resigning and get a decent reference for their next job. Not all HR people are monsters so they gave this guy at least some chance to move on with his next job rather than throwing him into a situation where he suddenly had no money to pay for the mortgage and no chance of getting a new job with a bad reference hanging over him.

jacknife

i would look to have a solicitor present at your hearing, this is a constitutional right, they have to prove their case not you, trying to prove professional misconduct is like trying to prove fraud so the threshold is very high.

look for copies of all the allegations and who made them, and ask to cross examine the accusers as well

Best of luck, hope it all works out

Glass fused light

jacknife wrote: »

i would look to have a solicitor present at your hearing, this is a constitutional right, they have to prove their case not you, trying to prove professional misconduct is like trying to prove fraud so the threshold is very high.

look for copies of all the allegations and who made them, and ask to cross examine the accusers as well

Best of luck, hope it all works out

Can you quote the section of the constitution which obliges an employer to allow an employee to bring a solicitor to a hearing?

jacknife

Glass fused light wrote: »

Can you quote the section of the constitution which obliges an employer to allow an employee to bring a solicitor to a hearing?

These can explain the right to legal representation it better than i can, if i correct its not an explicit right, depends on the circumstances of the case

In 2006 in Garvery v the Minister for Justice Equality and Law Reform ([2006] 1 I.L.R.M. 486 the Supreme Court noted that there could be no automatic right to legal representation but that the requirement of fair procedures may include an entitlement to legal representation.

http://www.arthurcox.com/publications/the-right-to-legal-representation-in-a-disciplinary-inquiry-the-exception-not-the-rule/

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/legal-representation/

https://wendydoylesolicitors.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/workplace-investigations-part-two/

angeldelight

Happened to me... it was a professional training role, would have been a huge issue career wise to be let go as the year had to be done to finish my qualification. It was for posts I had made online... I was put on paid leave for a week then had the meeting with regional manager. I basically just held my hands up, said I did something really stupid. I’m very sorry and won’t do it again. I got a final written warning but was able to finish out the year

^^ and get your qualification.

Jim2007

jacknife wrote: »

i would look to have a solicitor present at your hearing, this is a constitutional right, they have to prove their case not you, trying to prove professional misconduct is like trying to prove fraud so the threshold is very high.

look for copies of all the allegations and who made them, and ask to cross examine the accusers as well

Best of luck, hope it all works out

Clearly you have not read the IRISH constitution then. It would also help if you knew the difference between civil and criminal law and the fact you cannot be prosecuted for professional misconduct in a IRISH court. But apart from that you’re doing fine.

Jim2007

jacknife wrote: »

These can explain the right to legal representation it better than i can, if i correct its not an explicit right, depends on the circumstances of the case

In 2006 in Garvery v the Minister for Justice Equality and Law Reform ([2006] 1 I.L.R.M. 486 the Supreme Court noted that there could be no automatic right to legal representation but that the requirement of fair procedures may include an entitlement to legal representation.

http://www.arthurcox.com/publications/the-right-to-legal-representation-in-a-disciplinary-inquiry-the-exception-not-the-rule/

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/legal-representation/

https://wendydoylesolicitors.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/workplace-investigations-part-two/

Thanks for confirming that there is no such right.

jacknife

Jim2007 wrote: »

Thanks for confirming that there is no such right.

No rights are absolute, but where one is accused of a serious offence then the right to legal representation should be allowed

jacknife

In Flanagan v University College Dublin ([1988] I.R.731) a student was accused of plagiarising an essay which resulted in her appearing before the college’s disciplinary committee. She was refused representation before the committee and subsequently appealed to the High Court to judicially review the decision. The High Court concluded that she should have been entitled to be represented given the seriousness of the matter and the impact of any adverse decision on her future.

blindsider

@Jacknife - you said constitutional right...you have provided evidence of case law, but there's nothing in the Constitution .....Bunreacht na hEireann

The Courts have, several times, talked about natural justice etc and there are widely-held beliefs around the issue, many of which now have legal precedence....but there's no constitutional right!

CFC1969

JacenSolo wrote: »

Hi. I am having trouble in work and I being called up for Gross Misconduct. As I am fearful my employer could see this post I will not outline the details. I am simply looking to hear from others that faced Gross Misconduct charges and avoided being dismissed. I kinda need to be told that it is a possibility (I accept that) but that it is not the ONLY outcome and I have a possibility of keeping my job. As my job is a large MNC I particularly interested in hearing from those in similar positions but any replies will be greatly appreciated

Your case depends on the issue that arose from charges. Will the employer feel confident of defending themselves if you bring an unfair dismissal case against them

Check out FLAC, ask have they Industrial Relations specialist you can talk to

www.flac.ie

paw patrol

blindsider wrote: »

@Jacknife - you said constitutional right...you have provided evidence of case law, but there's nothing in the Constitution .....Bunreacht na hEireann

The Courts have, several times, talked about natural justice etc and there are widely-held beliefs around the issue, many of which now have legal precedence....but there's no constitutional right!

Rights v Bunreacht na hEireann . Wow. Well done.
I hope your missus with blow you later for proving that poster wrong. good on you.

Stheno

paw patrol wrote: »

Rights v Bunreacht na hEireann . Wow. Well done.
I hope your missus with blow you later for proving that poster wrong. good on you.

don't post in this thread again and read the charter before you post in this forum again