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Leinster or Munster - Which is more advantageous

  • 27-05-2019 11:06am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ IrishAlice
    Registered User


    http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/eamonn-sweeney-leinster-hurling-living-in-the-shadow-of-munster-38151289.html

    I read an article on the Independent website this morning about Leinster hurling living in the shadow of Munster.

    The most interesting part for me was the assessment that Leinster teams are at a disadvantage as they are not tested the way Munster teams are in their provincial games.

    Since 2000 Liam McCarthy has been won 12 times by a Leinster team (Galway included in this tally).

    The results show the exact opposite, surely the easier route in Leinster stands to the teams.

    Not looking to pit the two provinces against each other but interested to see what people think on this.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭ letsseehere14
    Registered User


    IrishAlice wrote:
    Since 2000 Liam McCarthy has been won 12 times by a Leinster team (Galway included in this tally).

    The results show the exact opposite, surely the easier route in Leinster stands to the teams.


    11 of those 12 were won by Kilkenny. Probably the greatest team ever.
    Wexford, Dublin or Offaly havnt won an all Ireland in decades. 2000 the last time any of those appeared in an All Ireland final. They have won 3 Leinster Championships combined in 20 years. Offaly 2000, Wexford 2005, Dublin 2013.
    Likewise Galway have only won 1 all Ireland in that period. Appearing in 6 finals two of which were before even joining Leinster. Losing 5 to Tipperary, Cork, Kilkenny twice and Limerick. Beating Waterford.

    In that same period, Clare, Limerick, Waterford, Tipperary and Cork have all appeared in more than 1 all Ireland final. All bar Waterford winning at least 1. The majority of the finals lost were to Kilkenny. KK beating 2002 Clare, 2003 Cork, 2006 Cork, 2007 Limerick, 2008 Waterford, 2009 Tipperary, 2011 Tipperary, 2014 Tipperary. Only once in over 20 years has a Munster team lost to a non Munster team or Kilkenny in a final. 2017 Galway v Waterford.

    This to me shows that only Kilkenny in Leinster have managed the "easier" route, nobody else really. Doing so with, as I have said, the greatest team ever, against what was plainly evident weaker opposition in Leinster.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭ Joe Daly


    Taking the easy route I wonder up to last year limerick did not win all Ireland since 1973, Waterford have not won one since 1959 well beaten in the last two all Irelands they were in Galway made them look better than they were actually in 2017 . Wexford were very unlucky 2013 they were made play on v clare in Thurles when Thomas Waters was down badly injured Clare got a vital score that night that brought them back into the game. Leinster teams beat munster teams well in the qualifiers, I was always told that hard matches brought on teams you would wonder then about taking the easier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭ Pogue eile
    Registered User


    Using previous results is very misleading for two reasons, the first as highlighted by letsseehere and the KK dominance but secondly and more importantly the format and structure of the Championship has changed dramatically so comparing 15 years ago with the 2019 Championship is a little more than apples and oranges. There are far more intense and historical rivalries in Munster at present but that is not to say that wont change again and I don't think at the end of the day its overly significant either way, its a Cliché yes but it also carries a lot of truth that the best team will win the AI, and which province they played in is irrelevant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭ slegs
    Registered User


    The point is simple and has nothing to do with the end result of All Irelands.

    Munster has 4-5 teams of a pretty high level most years
    Leinster has 2-3 depending on how Wexford shape up year to year. Dubs arent far off but they are not at Kilkenny and Galway's consistent level.

    In a championship format where 3 teams qualify out of 5, it is clearly imbalanced with Munster being more difficult to navigate as evidenced by the closeness of most matches (Tipp v Wat this year and Lim v Wat last year being the anomalies).

    Its not going to change any time soon but its obvious that 2 seeded balanced groups of 5/6 based on league performance is the solution with provincial championships moved to be secondary pre championship competitions (knockout format).


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,513 ✭✭✭✭ Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered User


    slegs wrote: »

    Its not going to change any time soon but its obvious

    Your post is correct, and this part is the most correct.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ IrishAlice
    Registered User


    slegs wrote: »
    The point is simple and has nothing to do with the end result of All Irelands.

    Munster has 4-5 teams of a pretty high level most years
    Leinster has 2-3 depending on how Wexford shape up year to year. Dubs arent far off but they are not at Kilkenny and Galway's consistent level.

    In a championship format where 3 teams qualify out of 5, it is clearly imbalanced with Munster being more difficult to navigate as evidenced by the closeness of most matches (Tipp v Wat this year and Lim v Wat last year being the anomalies).

    Its not going to change any time soon but its obvious that 2 seeded balanced groups of 5/6 based on league performance is the solution with provincial championships moved to be secondary pre championship competitions (knockout format).

    Your post sums it up perfectly, it's exactly what my thinking is on the matter and the complete opposite of what the article is saying.

    I would have always been of the opinion that having a more difficult route through a provincial championship is a disadvantage as opposed to an advantage. The reason I referenced the end results is because I think they prove that point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog
    Registered User


    Worrying thing about Leinster this year perhaps is that while it is competitive and has produced three pretty decent games from an excitement perspective, and even Carlow were in it for a long time in Salthill- so far and we won't know until we see Cats playing Galway and Wexford, both of which I suspect they will win handily - that Galway without Joe and Dublin and Wexford are pretty average.


    It is exciting and will go to the wire, but as a Dub I would see the season ending at 1/4 stage at best, and same for Wexford.

    We won't really see at what stage Kilkenny are until they play a Munster team at the business end, probably in the semi final.


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