Clare Bus vs. NTA, nobody concerned???

uuPi

Hi, just wondering if there is any discussion ongoing in a different thread that's not that easy to find? Or is it insufficient interest or a lack of public awareness and knowledge about the subject?
No idea what I am talking about? Try www.saveclarebus.info for a primer.
Tks, uuPi

Johnboy1951

I have not seen anything on Boards about it ..... but it could be there somewhere.

I remember the beginning of this project and the effort and community commitment that was put into it.
It will be a sad day indeed if this decision is not overturned.
Is there any indication how many people are due to lose their livelihood?

uuPi

A sad day indeed, there is up to 7 staff in Feakle who could lose their job, directly, with a knock-on-effect for supporting business in the area likely. BUT, the main concern is about the effect on passengers. The NTA is favoring a "business model" where the office operation is run on a shoestring and the on-the-road operation is outsourced to commercial operators. By nature those need to make profit whereas Clare Bus as a not-for-profit organisation puts every money coming in back into the service. That combined with the outlook that planning, provisioning and delivering for the whole rural transport for Clare will be run from a shoestring office 90 km away in Newcastle West does not warrant any confidence in services for passengers in very remote locations will be kept at the current level. In essence the long term plan of this move has only one goal: making life easier for the NTA, since they have less people to talk to when there are only 4 Transport Co-Ordination Units left for the whole country. The people of Clare (and the other counties being hit by this in the future) do not matter...

Phileas Frog

Other than 7 jobs, and there is no shortage of employment opportunities elsewhere, I don't see what the issue is.

ger664

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Other than 7 jobs, and there is no shortage of employment opportunities elsewhere, I don't see what the issue is.

The issue is that the governments over the last 20 years have systematically centralized local rural services based purely on bugdetry grounds.

Post offices, Garda stations A&E hospital services, public transport the list goes on.

It may cost more to provide these services locally but a community is better served if its services are provided from within the community.

We are told that we have a growing economy and all things are rosy in the garden. Realistically we are servicing a loan that bailed out the European Banks annually and the funding of such local services is paying for it

fryup

whats the dispute about (in a nutshell) why are the NTA not happy with clare bus service, the standard of the buses? the drivers?

Johnboy1951

fryup wrote: »

whats the dispute about (in a nutshell) why are the NTA not happy with clare bus service, the standard of the buses? the drivers?

No, they want to centralise the administration of the service which means putting the administration in county Limerick, whereas the service covers Clare and South Galway.

I can only guess what detrimental effect this might have on the service and the necessary knowledge built up by those presently running the service.

uuPi

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Other than 7 jobs, and there is no shortage of employment opportunities elsewhere, I don't see what the issue is.

Would you see it that way if somebody came up with the idea to run Clare GAA from Limerick?

uuPi

fryup wrote: »

whats the dispute about (in a nutshell) why are the NTA not happy with clare bus service, the standard of the buses? the drivers?

Their "problem" is, that it is too complicated for their liking. Picking up wheelchair passengers at their doorstep instead of a few miles away at the main road does not suit their business model of "as long as it is cheap and doesn't cause any hassle". According to their own spokesperson (Margaret Malone) in a radio interview they "never had any problem with the quality of the service". The standard of the buses is the highest in the country (all 11 being fully accessible), the safety record of the drivers is spotless. The main difference of Clare Bus compared to other counties is: they are a fleet owning, not-for-profit integrated unit, planning, provisioning and delivery of services all under one roof, dispatch & drivers working hand in hand in real-time, streamlined admin for office and on-the-road-operation, local knowledge accumulated since 2003, office open 6 days a week instead of 5. Bottom line: the whole move does not make any sense and leaves a lot of questions unanswered...

fryup

hmmm....seems like someone somewhere has a vested interest in this

uuPi

fryup wrote: »

hmmm....seems like someone somewhere has a vested interest in this

apparently. The interest of the people of Clare, however, does not seem to feature in this.

Phileas Frog

uuPi wrote: »

Would you see it that way if somebody came up with the idea to run Clare GAA from Limerick?

That's completely different. What's your agenda? Who are you? As fryup says, you seem to have a vested interest in this. Are you one of the 7?

Johnboy1951

Phileas Frog wrote: »

That's completely different. What's your agenda? Who are you? As fryup says, you seem to have a vested interest in this. Are you one of the 7?

I have no idea who uuIP might be but maybe you might consider those who depend on this service and what this change might mean to them.

Of course you already said that besides the few jobs

I don't see what the issue is.

I suggest you speak to a wide selection of users of this service and ask what they think. After all it is they who will be impacted by any change in service.

I find it worrying that there is little interest generally in this, and there appears to be a distinct lack of support for a local service which has grown up from a community initiative to be 'best in class'.

The service was begun, and developed, to serve the needs of some of the most vulnerable in Clare.
Now it seems that local control, and decisions based on local needs, are to be taken away and given to people in a different county who have their own problems to deal with so the Clare service must necessarily take a back seat.

This most likely would mean a change in service which has been specifically developed to serve the needs of the people who use it.

uuPi

Phileas Frog wrote: »

That's completely different. What's your agenda? Who are you? As fryup says, you seem to have a vested interest in this. Are you one of the 7?

maybe fryup meant someone else, otherwise he would have used "here" instead of "somewhere", wouldn't he?

uuPi

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suggest you speak to a wide selection of users of this service and ask what they think. After all it is they who will be impacted by any change in service.

I find it worrying that there is little interest generally in this, and there appears to be a distinct lack of support for a local service which has grown up from a community initiative to be 'best in class'.

This most likely would mean a change in service which has been specifically developed to serve the needs of the people who use it.

spot on. And just for the record, we are not only talking about the elderly or disabled passengers, everybody uses the service be it to get to work, medical appointments in town, even to and from school. The lack of interest speaks volumes, but, if one doesn't have a clue what it's like out in the sticks without your own transport and lacks the imagination of how things can change when getting older...

Carry

I just wanted to open a new thread about Clare Bus and found this older one that seemed to get a bit into bickering. And IMO into ignorance from people who clearly don't understand the issue, or can't even imagine what's it like to live outside of any public transport lines, as rare as that is in the countryside.

You have to remember that there are a lot of people who don't/can't drive a car.


To that effect I'd like to post a very touching video about Clare Bus:

Maybe, just maybe some of us car driving people might start to support this service in which way ever.

Johnboy1951

Congratulations to all concerned with Clare Bus and particularly to Laura Ward.
I have strong memories of the time of incorporation and of sourcing the funding for the first C.A.T. bus.

This is a gem of a service which deserves all the support it can get, not only from those who use it, but even more so from those who do not (yet).

uuPi

Well said, unfortunately a lot of folks don't see that there is more at stake than "just" a nearly 20 year old community project that has delivered much needed services to people where the state has failed and will continue failing to do so.

uuPi

Update: The NTA has decided not only to move the office operation to a different provider but to put out all the routes serviced by Clare Bus to individual tenders, in other words, a network of inter-linked services will be dismantled into 12 single routes operators can bid for. This is not only multiplying the administrational costs (each successful bidder = 1 office), it seriously risks the integrity of the whole transport structure as it is at the moment.
Since August (bookings taken by Locallink Limerick in Newcastle West) the situation is like this:
- passengers rings Newcastle West to request a seat
- Newcastle West emails Clarebus in Feakle to request a seat
- all good -> booking DONE by Clarebus in Feakle
- problems -> Clarebus in Feakle getting back to Newcastle West to ask for missing details, inform about lack of seats for trip requested...

Or, for folks being not familiar with the ins and outs of transport:
- you want to get 2 liters of milk from Dunnes.
- instead of going there and get it you have to show up at the service desk of Tescos to request 2 liters of milk (from Dunnes!!!)
- ping-pong communication between Tesco & Dunnes, finally -> all clear
- NOW you go to Dunnes and get your milk

Doesn't make sense, does it? Can't involve any "cost savings", can it?

Johnboy1951

It is hard to fathom why an extra layer of bureaucracy was introduced into a streamlined system that has been successfully run for 20 years.

It is sad , very sad, to see this happen.

Banner2theend

My blood is boiling this morning as Shane Ross and the governments vendetta against Clare Bus sank to a new low. The deplorable NTA announced that the contract that Clare Bus won last December which was so hard won has been revoked. From this morning a "caretaker manager" will take over operations of the company.

All that I can say is this is part of this nasty govt campaign to take advantage of the corona virus and make some horrible decisions which won't be scrutinised by the general public. What a horrible way to run the country. No wonder we don't take Leo and co seriously when they come out with this "nation address" which IMO is all spin. They really don't care about the general public. The ultimate two fingers to both management and staff in Clare Bus who are now facing a most uncertain future yet again.

uuPi

Not so sure if the government is to blame for THIS one directly, rather think the NTA (which does not seem to be accountable to anyone, even the so called minister for transport repeatedly said "I can not interfere"...) sneaked that in under the blanket of the current Covid-19 crisis since they failed so many times before to take Clare Bus out. In Corona-times nobody is paying attention. 0 points for style...

Johnboy1951

It seems the contracts was not signed so could not be revoked .....

NTA Statement:

In December, Clare Bus was advised by the NTA that they were the preferred bidder for the publicly tendered Local Link services in Clare and contract signing was due to take place in January 2020.

“However, as of today’s date, Clare Bus has been unable to conclude the contract.

“As a result, Limerick-Clare Local Link is putting alternative arrangements in place on an interim basis. There will be no disruption to services for customers arising from this.

Why would Clare Bus be "unable to conclude the contract"?

uuPi

The explanation can be found here: https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/ger-hoey-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-clare-bus-contract-issues/

Johnboy1951

uuPi wrote: »

The explanation can be found here: https://www.mixcloud.com/ClareFMNewsSports/ger-hoey-speaking-to-clare-fms-james-mulhall-on-clare-bus-contract-issues/

That link locked up my browser and had to be killed before I could even see what was on the page.

uuPi

Hm, strange, you can find the sound clip as well on the Clare FM website: http://www.clare.fm/news/transport/clare-bus-chair-warns-permanent-office-closure-following-nta-contract-decision/

Johnboy1951

I got to listen, thanks.

It seems that the NTA's decision about who will handle what has not changed, despite the apparent grant of tender, and they ensured this by limiting funding to the minimum.

In truth I am not at all surprised.
When politicians and their lackies decide what they want it is near impossible to fight it and win.

CAT was dead and just did not know it.
I doubt if it might be possible to resurrect it.

uuPi

They want to take them out no matter what the cost... too complicated for their thinking-box, not a simple A to B service

Johnboy1951

What is the situation with the buses now?
CAT have no licence to use them.
Will they be sold?
Are they all owned ?

As I recall a great deal of the funding for the buses was raised locally.

uuPi

Honest answer: I don't know. My understanding is that there are still ongoing negotiations and representations to reverse the decision and keep the service in Clare. To the best of my knowledge all vehicles are owned by CAT. Having to sell them would definitely be the end of this community developed project. The big difference compared to other counties is that CAT is a fleet-owning operator working at the same time as transport coordination unit (TCU) being responsible for the planning & provision of rural transport services for the Banner County, all under one roof with the benefit of local knowledge accumulated over the last nearly 20 years. Now (since July 2019) the TCU is some 90 km away, no local knowledge whatsoever and -as in other counties- outsourcing the on the road operation to the cheapest bidder.

uuPi

https://www.clareecho.ie/nta-have-agenda-to-drive-clare-bus-off-the-road/