Fiat-Chrysler to merge with Renault

peasant

Fiat Chrysler has made a "transformative" all-share merger proposal to French rival Renault, the Italian-American carmaker said today, in a deal to create a new third-ranked global manufacture

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0527/1051901-fiat-chrysler-renault-deal/

What's this going to be then?
An electric Jeep with a crumbly Nissan CVT, old Renault switchgear and an Alfa badge?

I don't see that working somehow...

listermint

What happens to the Nissan deal in all of this

TrailerBob

Or a Jeep badged Dacia Duster for the US market...

Am I doting, or was there a co-operative agreement between Renault and Chrysler way back, maybe late 80's sort of time?

corks finest

peasant wrote: »

Fiat Chrysler has made a "transformative" all-share merger proposal to French rival Renault, the Italian-American carmaker said today, in a deal to create a new third-ranked global manufacture

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0527/1051901-fiat-chrysler-renault-deal/

What's this going to be then?
An electric Jeep with a crumbly Nissan CVT, old Renault switchgear and an Alfa badge?

I don't see that working somehow...

I stay away from all fiat/ Renault cars etc,vv bad experiences with both over the years,long time ago but once bitten ( no choice economically but to purchase both brands in the 80s) electrical problems everywhere,also Citroen wasn't great either

peasant

TrailerBob wrote: »

Am I doting, or was there a co-operative agreement between Renault and Chrysler way back, maybe late 80's sort of time?

I believe it was AMC (American Motors Corporation)

hi5

TrailerBob wrote: »

Or a Jeep badged Dacia Duster for the US market...

Chrysler/Plymouth did also make a Duster back in the day...

coylemj

Thread title should be .... 'Fiat-Chrysler proposal to merge with Renault'

Lord Nikon

To be fair, most Nissans now are running Renault engines, and while I don't particularly like Renaults(their electrics are woeful), Nissans are actually alright.

Oafley Jones

Lord Nikon wrote: »

To be fair, most Nissans now are running Renault engines, and while I don't particularly like Renaults(their electrics are woeful), Nissans are actually alright.

Despite Renault using Nissan electrics since 2008?

wcooba

Fiat badly needs EV know how - something Renault definitely has expertise in.

Murt10

Fiat Chrysler and Renault

3 marques that would be on the bottom of the list of brands that I would want to buy. Rubbish reliability.

Resale values through the floor. Once you buy one, your stuck with it (because no other garage will give you any sort of trade in on your car)

JDPower survey tells its story

Eric Cartman

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Despite Renault using Nissan electrics since 2008?

thats why they had to start using them.

lobbylad

Growing up, we had many many Renaults - and never a problem with any of them, maybe we were just lucky.

Renault 16, 14, 9, 20 and a few 25's.

The 25 was a stunning car in its day, really comfortable - looks really dated now in photos! I remember the proper graphic equalizer built in to the console!

wcooba

I personally find this "Internet wisdom" that French and Italian cars are unreliable funny.
I drive german cars for last few years although my wife currently has a Citroen DS3 and used to have Fiat 500. Both brilliant little cars and definitely not unreliable.

Anyway back to the main topic - i think it's a good news that potentially we will have 2nd EU based concern in top 3 car manufacturers. Around 13 million jobs in Europe are in the automotive sector!

Ce he sin

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Despite Renault using Nissan electrics since 2008?

And vice versa. I had occasion to change the boot release on my mother's Micra recently. You need to take off the trim panel inside the hatch to do this which exposes the wiper motor. It's Renault branded and made by I think Valeo.

Hurrache

corks finest wrote: »

I stay away from all fiat/ Renault cars etc,vv bad experiences with both over the years,long time ago but once bitten ( no choice economically but to purchase both brands in the 80s) electrical problems everywhere,also Citroen wasn't great either

You're comparing 40 year old cars with today's?

Lord Nikon wrote: »

To be fair, most Nissans now are running Renault engines, and while I don't particularly like Renaults(their electrics are woeful), Nissans are actually alright.

Again, old tech and models so not applicable these days.

Murt10 wrote: »

Fiat Chrysler and Renault

3 marques that would be on the bottom of the list of brands that I would want to buy. Rubbish reliability.

Resale values through the floor. Once you buy one, your stuck with it (because no other garage will give you any sort of trade in on your car)

JDPower survey tells its story

Again, not true of Renault anyway, Fiat are fine too but uninteresting.

Old diesel

TrailerBob wrote: »

Or a Jeep badged Dacia Duster for the US market...

Am I doting, or was there a co-operative agreement between Renault and Chrysler way back, maybe late 80's sort of time?

You are kind of right....

I'm not quite sure the exact details but my understanding is that Renault linked up with or took over an American manufacturer called AMC.

Then that whole Renault/AMC thing ended up being taken over by Chrysler.

An odd creation from the AMC/Renault thing in the states was basically a 2 door Renault 9 with a 2.0 engine (seen an old road test of this on youtube).

There was also a car called an Eagle Premier (Eagle was an AMC brand) which was apparently derived from the Renault 25 but was actually a saloon.

That Premier was one of the product lines Chrysler took on in the take over.

Chrysler also had links with Mitsubishi years ago that saw them take cars from Mitsubishi and sell them under Chrysler branding.

The 1988 to 92 Mitsubishi Lancer was actually sold under the Eagle brand at one point.

Seen a road test for that as well.

rivegauche

Jeep Duster
https://www.carscoops.com/2016/03/this-206-jeep-nose-job-wont-solve-your/

Old diesel

Post 2007 Renaults appear to be in a totally different league reliability wise then the 2002 era disaster zones.

I suspect that this is about gaining more product lines for Dacia.

Expect to see Tipos at your local Dacia dealers in the future - in the same way that Daewoos were rebadged as Chevrolet in around 2004.

And the Datsuns got rebranded Nissan in the 80s.

A Tipo gets Dacia into a new market arena - but yet a Tipo badged as a Dacia will sell to people who wouldnt even touch it as a Fiat.

corks finest

lobbylad wrote: »

Growing up, we had many many Renaults - and never a problem with any of them, maybe we were just lucky.

Renault 16, 14, 9, 20 and a few 25's.

The 25 was a stunning car in its day, really comfortable - looks really dated now in photos! I remember the proper graphic equalizer built in to the console!

I had 4 Renault 9s/ 3 11s all heaps of rubbish,clutch cable's/ electrics, couldn't afford anything else at the time- basically drive them and maintained as best I could, with 6 young kids at the time I had little choice,but oh the heartache- 50/50 if they'd start

swarlb

corks finest wrote: »

I had 4 Renault 9s/ 3 11s all heaps of rubbish,clutch cable's/ electrics, couldn't afford anything else at the time- basically drive them and maintained as best I could, with 6 young kids at the time I had little choice,but oh the heartache- 50/50 if they'd start

Why did you continue to buy Renaults if they were 'rubbish'.

Let's forget about the past for a minute here, as it no longer exists, and concentrate on the here and now.
Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi are already linked, so merging Fiat/Chrysler into the mix means nothing really except easier and cheaper ways of producing cars, and giving people a greater choice.
The 'brand' has become so diluted these days as to make the badge irrelevant. The colour and trim of the car is probably as important as the badge, and certainly the price.

corks finest

swarlb wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

I had 4 Renault 9s/ 3 11s all heaps of rubbish,clutch cable's/ electrics, couldn't afford anything else at the time- basically drive them and maintained as best I could, with 6 young kids at the time I had little choice,but oh the heartache- 50/50 if they'd start

Why did you continue to buy Renaults if they were 'rubbish'.

Let's forget about the past for a minute here, as it no longer exists, and concentrate on the here and now.
Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi are already linked, so merging Fiat/Chrysler into the mix means nothing really except easier and cheaper ways of producing cars, and giving people a greater choice.
The 'brand' has become so diluted these days as to make the badge irrelevant. The colour and trim of the car is probably as important as the badge, and certainly the price.

Back in the early 80s only brand I could afford ( hackney at the time,so changed every few months,but always in the red)

theguzman

Renault, Fiat, Peugeot, Nissan, Citroen, Opel, Toyota and Dacia all brands that are absolute pure muck sh1te nowadays. The French could never produce anything of any use, their entire industry and economy is controlled by Socialist trade unions, so imagine British Leyland BMC levels of ineptitude. Opel is now part of PSA having been cut off by GMC as their quality kept declining. VAG are the way to go at the moment.

Guy:Incognito

wcooba wrote: »

I personally find this "Internet wisdom" that French and Italian cars are unreliable funny.

During the time of what everyone would say was the worst of Renault's issues, the Laguna II MkI , they were suffering less warranty issues than the transit of the time, that the same people would tell you to buy if your getting s van.

I've had 2 late 90s safranes, a 2000 clio I bought new as my first car that was in the family till 2010 and did not treat well, the missus had a 2000 scenic that was traded in for an 05 Scenic II. The mother had a 2010 Megane till the beginning of this year when it was written off by a drunk driver. My dad drove a 2000 Laguna till he stopped driving.

All without issue, bar the dash in the Scenic II that started to go and was changed in a main dealer for 150 quid or so.

People seem to have this thing with certain brands and will write off buying them after having a few issues but will pass off plenty of stuff with other brands, like VW and say they were just unlucky with the car.
If people stopped buying any car that had issues , we wouldnt be driving cars anymore.

Mad_maxx

Old diesel wrote: »

Post 2007 Renaults appear to be in a totally different league reliability wise then the 2002 era disaster zones.

I suspect that this is about gaining more product lines for Dacia.

Expect to see Tipos at your local Dacia dealers in the future - in the same way that Daewoos were rebadged as Chevrolet in around 2004.

And the Datsuns got rebranded Nissan in the 80s.

A Tipo gets Dacia into a new market arena - but yet a Tipo badged as a Dacia will sell to people who wouldnt even touch it as a Fiat.

A fiat tipo ( latest one) is much better value than a dacia, better in every way, it's extraordinary that a tipo is cheaper second hand than a dacia

Fiat still loose with good stuff in this part of the world, they are a major force in much of the globe

Mad_maxx

theguzman wrote: »

Renault, Fiat, Peugeot, Nissan, Citroen, Opel, Toyota and Dacia all brands that are absolute pure muck sh1te nowadays. The French could never produce anything of any use, their entire industry and economy is controlled by Socialist trade unions, so imagine British Leyland BMC levels of ineptitude. Opel is now part of PSA having been cut off by GMC as their quality kept declining. VAG are the way to go at the moment.

Peugeot are very good right now, VAG has to make the least effort to impress with both the public and the motoring press

Old diesel

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

wcooba wrote: »

I personally find this "Internet wisdom" that French and Italian cars are unreliable funny.

During the time of what everyone would say was the worst of Renault's issues, the Laguna II MkI , they were suffering less warranty issues than the transit of the time, that the same people would tell you to buy if your getting s van.

I've had 2 late 90s safranes, a 2000 clio I bought new as my first car that was in the family till 2010 and did not treat well, the missus had a 2000 scenic that was traded in for an 05 Scenic II. The mother had a 2010 Megane till the beginning of this year when it was written off by a drunk driver. My dad drove a 2000 Laguna till he stopped driving.

All without issue, bar the dash in the Scenic II that started to go and was changed in a main dealer for 150 quid or so.

People seem to have this thing with certain brands and will write off buying them after having a few issues but will pass off plenty of stuff with other brands, like VW and say they were just unlucky with the car.
If people stopped buying any car that had issues , we wouldnt be driving cars anymore.

The Safrane was an epically lovely car to travel in.

Annoyingly I think Renault have moved away from that "feels like the council have fixed the road even though they havent" ride comfort in newer cars.

colm_mcm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

During the time of what everyone would say was the worst of Renault's issues, the Laguna II MkI , they were suffering less warranty issues than the transit of the time, that the same people would tell you to buy if your getting s van.

I've had 2 late 90s safranes, a 2000 clio I bought new as my first car that was in the family till 2010 and did not treat well, the missus had a 2000 scenic that was traded in for an 05 Scenic II. The mother had a 2010 Megane till the beginning of this year when it was written off by a drunk driver. My dad drove a 2000 Laguna till he stopped driving.

All without issue, bar the dash in the Scenic II that started to go and was changed in a main dealer for 150 quid or so.

People seem to have this thing with certain brands and will write off buying them after having a few issues but will pass off plenty of stuff with other brands, like VW and say they were just unlucky with the car.
If people stopped buying any car that had issues , we wouldnt be driving cars anymore.

Are you saying the Laguna II wasn’t troublesome or just that the Transit was worse?

corks finest

colm_mcm wrote: »

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

During the time of what everyone would say was the worst of Renault's issues, the Laguna II MkI , they were suffering less warranty issues than the transit of the time, that the same people would tell you to buy if your getting s van.

I've had 2 late 90s safranes, a 2000 clio I bought new as my first car that was in the family till 2010 and did not treat well, the missus had a 2000 scenic that was traded in for an 05 Scenic II. The mother had a 2010 Megane till the beginning of this year when it was written off by a drunk driver. My dad drove a 2000 Laguna till he stopped driving.

All without issue, bar the dash in the Scenic II that started to go and was changed in a main dealer for 150 quid or so.

People seem to have this thing with certain brands and will write off buying them after having a few issues but will pass off plenty of stuff with other brands, like VW and say they were just unlucky with the car.
If people stopped buying any car that had issues , we wouldnt be driving cars anymore.

Are you saying the Laguna II wasn’t troublesome or just that the Transit was worse?

Had a Laguna with no problem except for the key card( wrong term I know,but hopefully you understand what I mean) driving etc grand,but shifted it after 5 month's

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote: »

Are you saying the Laguna II wasn’t troublesome or just that the Transit was worse?

The 2nd one. But it was more a commentary on peoples perception of brands and models.

Philb76

Wasn't it a Talbot Chrysler alliance remember the horizon as a kid maybe I'm wrong long time ago

Old diesel

Philb76 wrote: »

Wasn't it a Talbot Chrysler alliance remember the horizon as a kid maybe I'm wrong long time ago

Chrysler actually sold their european operations to PSA in 1978 or thereabouts.

Talbot was Peugeots branding for the Chrysler Europe vehicles Peugeot took on.

The Horizon was actually still sold in the US* as a US Chrysler product though.

Top end US version of the car was a 2.2 - a different beast to the 1.9 diesel Horizon you could get in Europe.

The Horizon I believe was actually the first car to get the XUD diesel that then went on to be in PSA diesels for years after - everything from a 305 van right up to (in 2.1 form) Citroen XM turbodiesel.

The Chrysler Europe situation is hard to get a handle on.

My understanding is that Chrysler Europe came about via Chrysler buying out the French Simca company and the UK Rootes company.

Rootes were the company that were making Hillman Hunters.

My understanding is that with Talbot in the early 80s you had a Sunbeam which was a UK design from the Rootes group.

But the Alpine and Solara came from what was originally Simca.

*edited to clarify

galwaytt

corks finest wrote: »

I stay away from all fiat/ Renault cars etc,vv bad experiences with both over the years,long time ago but once bitten ( no choice economically but to purchase both brands in the 80s) electrical problems everywhere,also Citroen wasn't great either

....so you think they're the same as the '80s ? Look at Audi's now: the Uber Executive choice. In the 70's & 80's they were complete rust buckets.

Have a 2012 Renault now and yet to see a warning light: my TT otoh............. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

TeaBagMania

just when you thought fiat\chrysler couldn't get any worse, lets throw some french rubbish on the pile.

three POS auto manufactures that build garbage trying to make a go of it... let the hilarity ensue.

Q all of the french\italian motor owners "my car is grand "

Guy:Incognito

TeaBagMania wrote: »

.

Q all of the french\italian motor owners "my car is grand "

Surely there arent any with cars that are grand going by your logic.

Hurrache

TeaBagMania wrote: »

just when you thought fiat\chrysler couldn't get any worse, lets throw some french rubbish on the pile.

three POS auto manufactures that build garbage trying to make a go of it... let the hilarity ensue.

Q all of the french\italian motor owners "my car is grand "

They'll just truthfully tell you you posted nonsense.

bear1

The usual mantra on this forum.
If it's an Italian car then it must be ****.
If its French then it's the "ah I had one back in 2001 and it was just crap so it means all other cars made in France must be the same.".
Yet if you posted a Japanese or German car they are treated as be all and end all of the motoring clan.
The epiphany of what it means to own a car.
I've owned a Toyota, a Honda and a passat.
The vw being the worst of the 3.
Ive got now 2 Italian cars and they are just fantastic to be in.
But what do I know..

Mad_maxx

Surely the French - Italian critics will acknowledge they both made decent engines?

bear1

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Surely the French - Italian critics will acknowledge they both made decent engines?

The first common rail engine was an Italian engine.
Can't remember if it was the 156 or fiat that had it first.

Stallingrad

TeaBagMania wrote: »

just when you thought fiat\chrysler couldn't get any worse, lets throw some french rubbish on the pile.
three POS auto manufactures that build garbage trying to make a go of it..

Ill informed nonsense, are you in the wrong forum?

yermanoffthetv

rivegauche wrote: »

Jeep Duster
https://www.carscoops.com/2016/03/this-206-jeep-nose-job-wont-solve-your/

To be fair that looks better than the Dacia or Renault grilles.
Potential Jeep Renagade replacement?

colm_mcm

bear1 wrote: »

The first common rail engine was an Italian engine.
Can't remember if it was the 156 or fiat that had it first.

Not really...
Common rail engines were on trucks before that.

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Not really...
Common rail engines were on trucks before that.

I meant more in passenger car form.
The first ever common rail was indeed for trucks made in Japan.

colm_mcm

Yes, there’s no doubt it was a nice achievement but it’s not as if Fiat just thought it up, there were a few companies involved if I remember right. There were other companies working on common rail engines for cars too, just Fiat were first to market.

I’m not trying to have a go at Fiat or anything, just to say it’s not like it was a new concept or that they did everything themselves.

bear1

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes, there’s no doubt it was a nice achievement but it’s not as if Fiat just thought it up, there were a few companies involved if I remember right. There were other companies working on common rail engines for cars too, just Fiat were first to market.

I’m not trying to have a go at Fiat or anything, just to say it’s not like it was a new concept or that they did everything themselves.

Oh no doubt there were a few others involved and then fiat stupidly sold the concept to bosch. But they were in a seriously dire financial position so left with not much choice.
My point being that people knocking a certain brand simply due to something that happened decades ago or word of mouth is a silly way to sum up a brand.
Whether it be Japanese, German or Italian what have you.
Skoda at the end of the day also suffered serious negativity until vw took them over.
Lancia for example I discovered recently were the first to offer the electric handbrake as standard on some of their cars.
Love them or hate them they did bring some flair to the market.