Are the Irish humble?

realitykeeper

Are the Irish humble or arrogant? If we are humble, is that a good or a bad thing? My own view is that we are not humble but we should be. To be humble and modest is a great place to start. Arrogance may also be a mask for insecurity. When I refer to being humble or arrogant, I am talking about both demeanor and expectation. Of course, expecting too much and being arrogant may also be a sign that a person was spoilt as a child.

David McWilliams has recently been doing the rounds making a valid point based on a poem by Yeats.

The center cannot hold, the best lack all intensity and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

This is an accurate reflection of today`s society. My question is: would this be the case if we were more humble? Importantly, to me, being humble is not the same as being defeatist, it is the opposite to that.

Tell me how

realitykeeper wrote: »

Are the Irish humble or arrogant? If we are humble, is that a good or a bad thing? My own view is that we are not humble but we should be. To be humble and modest is a great place to start. Arrogance may also be a mask for insecurity. When I refer to being humble or arrogant, I am talking about both demeanor and expectation. Of course, expecting too much and being arrogant may also be a sign that a person was spoilt as a child.

David McWilliams has recently been doing the rounds making a valid point based on a poem by Yeats.

The center cannot hold, the best lack all intensity and the worst are full of passionate intensity.

This is an accurate reflection of today`s society. My question is: would this be the case if we were more humble? Importantly, to me, being humble is not the same as being defeatist, it is the opposite to that.

Your question could be clearer.
Would what be the case if we were more humble?

Maybe re-phrase it as it could be an interesting discussion.

realitykeeper

Tell me how wrote: »

Your question could be clearer.
Would what be the case if we were more humble?

Maybe re-phrase it as it could be an interesting discussion.

The "what" refers to the quote in italics.

Tell me how

realitykeeper wrote: »

The "what" refers to the quote in italics.

Still don't see the core topic worth discussing in relation to being humble and that statement.

I'll leave you to it.

realitykeeper

Tell me how wrote: »

Still don't see the core topic worth discussing in relation to being humble and that statement.

I'll leave you to it.

Well then I will try to simplify it for you by asking simpler questions.

Are the Irish humble? If not, should we be?

Joe1919

Hi. You could argue that the opposite to humility is 'pride' and indeed the topic of pride has considerable philosophical interest. Its a complex issue that I have an interest in. I will recommend a book that I think deals very well with the subject.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/824404.Sin_Pride_Self_Acceptance

There is an argument that as humans, we cant escape from pride.e.g The humble person has to beware that lurking under their humility is pride i.e. The person is proud of their humility.

realitykeeper

Joe1919 wrote: »

There is an argument that as humans, we cant escape from pride.e.g The humble person has to beware that lurking under their humility is pride i.e. The person is proud of their humility.

Yes. But has humility practical value and if so, could a person be humble because they are pragmatic as opposed to being proud? And, if the Irish are proud as opposed to being humble, could it be that we are not as down to earth and sensible as we could be?

Joe1919

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes. But has humility practical value and if so, could a person be humble because they are pragmatic as opposed to being proud? And, if the Irish are proud as opposed to being humble, could it be that we are not as down to earth and sensible as we could be?

'Pride' is often defined as a 'pleasure in ones own excellence'. As such then, pride is seen as an emotion of self evaluation (along with guilt, shame etc) But pride, especially if it become excessive, can be troublesome (it can enlarge our ego) and hence humility has a value in bringing us down to earth so to speak and makes us realize our own insignificance and makes us look outwards to something greater than ourselves.

To your second question, I have no way of knowing if pride is a greater problem to Irish than other nationalities. However, some people have argued 'honour' is a bigger issue in some 'closed' sub cultures and where their is large family groupings living closely together. In these groups, a person is more conscious of their position within the group and their is a higher incidence of honour and revenge murders/feuding which is motivated by pride and a desire to restore ones honour.

realitykeeper

Joe1919 wrote: »

'Pride' is often defined as a 'pleasure in ones own excellence'. As such then, pride is seen as an emotion of self evaluation (along with guilt, shame etc) But pride, especially if it become excessive, can be troublesome (it can enlarge our ego) and hence humility has a value in bringing us down to earth so to speak and makes us realize our own insignificance and makes us look outwards to something greater than ourselves.

To your second question, I have no way of knowing if pride is a greater problem to Irish than other nationalities. However, some people have argued 'honour' is a bigger issue in some 'closed' sub cultures and where their is large family groupings living closely together. In these groups, a person is more conscious of their position within the group and their is a higher incidence of honour and revenge murders/feuding which is motivated by pride and a desire to restore ones honour.

Yes, misplaced honour is a problem in gangland activity. I think if one looks closely at the state of a nation, one can see if the culture embraces honourable traits or if it is disproportional in vice.

Obtaining pleasure in our own excellence is easily achieved when one has low expectations. In Ireland, I think we go overboard when we win a match and we tend to value things that really don`t have very much value at all. In the past week, two Irishmen have gone missing, presumed dead on Everest and while climbing that mountain may be a personal accomplishment and something to let slip about at a dinner party, personally I would give far greater credence to someone who takes a few minutes every week to pick up rubbish in their neighbourhood.

Being humble, is a driving factor. It spawns effort, desire and ambition for those things that make a difference as opposed to meaningless vanity projects, that ultimately come at a high cost. I think being humble is to give of oneself whereas the arrogant have a tendency to demand money. This again is an example of the true lack of self belief an arrogant culture may have in itself. Am I correct?

ILoveYourVibes

I don't think I am humble. Dunno though.

Black Swan

Nietzsche plays the devil's advocate when discussing humility. In doing this he exhibits a critical orientation for moral philosophy, suggesting that humility may not be in the best interests of human individual development. Alternatively, humility may be a false consciousness imposed by society, and that many members of society may feel compelled to exhibit a "false humility" in order to subtly advance and avoid social sanction.

Black Swan

“True humility is not thinking less of yourself; it is thinking of yourself less” (CS Lewis).

Count Dracula

I think our heavy links to Christian teachings, morals and way of life, will have naturally led us to behave and "act out" in humble fashion or mode.

Being deferential on a social basis does ape or sheep New Testament gospel teachings with which this country is so heavily reliant. A common slur is often name calling such as " pretentious " or arrogant. But the concept of "slurring" needs to be more closely examined to establish our more innate natures.

But I think it really highlights how duplicitous, snobbish and conceitedly self righteous we regrettably are.

Granted we are warm and friendly and certainly helpful? But I do feel we are eternally throwing our noses up at everyone else, that is innate and must have developed through our ancient tribal culture. We constantly show disdain at people from different areas or places which can go as far as distrust. It manifests both ways, it crosses socio economic and sectarian boundaries. It even prevails when examining new or developing cultures which are literally frowned upon.

So whilst we might say with a polite smile and think that by being humble we are somehow admonished from guilt.... we are certainly rough diamonds when it comes to genuine levels of sociability. We have more faces than a rubix cube for starters.

NiceFella

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110283376#Comment_110283376

It's beneficial, I think true humility comes when you know you're own limitations more. That's a good thing, because you understand yourself better. Arrogance is willful or blind ignorance which is not a good thing.

It reminds me of the Socrates quote "I am wise because I know I know nothing".

Humility is wise, arrogance is stupid.

Fathom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119629687#Comment_119629687

Personally, I do not find the Irish all cut from the same quilt. Individual differences prevail I would suggest. Certainly, there are some cultural norms shared that differ from culture to culture, both within and outside Ireland, but to label most or all Irish as humble or otherwise seems to me as a broad sweeping generalization lacking philosophical merit or practical utility.

@realitykeeper