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Go-Ahead Route 197

  • 17-05-2019 4:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously or even reported in the media, but the new Route 197 (tender here) for provision of bus services between Swords and Ashbourne has been won by GAI.

    Having briefly looked through the draft contract it appears that GAI will have to provide their own buses which is usually the case with these types of contracts so expect a GAI tender for bus purchase or lease in due course.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Interesting but I have heard that GAI are losing a lot of drivers to BE and DB since they've started recruiting and it's already causing them some difficulty now with the routes they are already operating and are not managing to replace them. I have heard rumours that they may be looking for permission from the NTA to delay the transferral of the BE routes until they can get more drivers as they haven't even replaced the ones that have left let alone get enough to run more services.

    The first time they were recruiting to take up the DB routes they didn't have trouble as DB weren't recruiting then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,319 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    I wonder if extending it to Dunshaughlin would make sense. Admittedly it would overlap somewhat with the 109A.


  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ ax586


    GM228 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously or even reported in the media, but the new Route 197 (tender here) for provision of bus services between Swords and Ashbourne has been won by GAI.

    Having briefly looked through the draft contract it appears that GAI will have to provide their own buses which is usually the case with these types of contracts so expect a GAI tender for bus purchase or lease in due course.

    From what I heard they are going to get enviro single deckers and have there own ticket machines


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    ax586 wrote: »


    From what I heard they are going to get enviro single deckers and have there own ticket machines

    Interesting would have thought they'd get Streetlites or B8RLEs as they'd be the buses which would have the same parts and maintenance and driver familiarity as with buses already in the fleet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ ax586


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Interesting would have thought they'd get Streetlites or B8RLEs as they'd be the buses which would have the same parts and maintenance and driver familiarity as with buses already in the fleet.

    Gal are not happy with the streetlites as it is.its because go ahead themselves have a good relationship with ADL as I was told by a member of management


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    Anyone explain the passenger profile for this service?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,319 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    I imagine it is there to supplement / replace the 41b, which has only 2-5 departures per direction per day. http://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/41b-/

    I used it recently during the day and it was a mix of older people and student-aged people.

    I imagine there are people who work in Swords and Dunshauglin that live in the other town or along the route.

    It would divert a certain amount of passengers off the 103 and 109/a, who could make their change at Dunshauglin instead of the city centre.

    Buses within Swords do good business.

    I'm not sure if using the current 41b stop in Rolestown is useful, as it involves a detour.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    The only way it will be an acceptable replacement for the 41b is if there is an interchange option at no extra cost in Swords, as the new 197 service is not going into Dublin.

    There is a significant demand for a service from Ashbourne to Swords, Ashbourne is the second largest town in Meath, and not well served by public transport, in as much as the only viable option at present is to go to the airport on the 109a, and then get a bus to Swords, which even with LEAP and fare capping will add to the journey cost, and the return to Ashbourne means going via DCU on the 109a, so that makes for a slow journey time. The only other option is to go via Dublin on the 103, which also means a long journey, so this new service should be a popular alternative to the car.

    In addition, the 109a is notoriously unreliable at present, there are frequent no shows, and at times, there are delays of up to 40 minutes, which makes a mockery of trying to plan a regular usage for commuting purposes, and this can also significantly disrupt travel plans if a flight is involved. To add insult to aggravation, there is no engagement from BE management with the problems, they are being ignored, so as far as I am concerned, I am delighted that BE did not get this route.

    I find it incredible that there is no direct bus to the airport from Finglas, but that's probably a subject for another day and a different thread

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    The 41b is to vanish under the initial busconnects network redesign, this could yet change. There won't be any moves to change ticketing before the general move to a timed fare is guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭ thomasj



    I find it incredible that there is no direct bus to the airport from Finglas, but that's probably a subject for another day and a different thread

    There's very little options for most of North Dublin to the Airport and rather than loads of direct buses running from North Dublin to the Airport there should be 1 orbital route serving:

    Blanchardstown Centre, Navan Road, Broombridge Luas, Finglas, Glasnevin, Ballymun, Santry, Airport and Swords.

    every 20 minutes. It would benefit, Blanchardstown, Castleknock, Navan Road, Ashtown, Cabra, Phibsborough, Finglas, Glasnevin, Ballymun, Santry and Swords with connections for areas nearby.

    Like you said though, thats for another day.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭ Geog1234


    Great to see this route coming on stream but the route documentation suggests there will be no stops between Rolestown and the Niner (Ninemile Stone).


    Surely it would make sense to have a number of stops on this section - for example at Fieldstown Bridge (R122 junction), at the R130 Junction, at Broadmeadown Country House and St. Patrick's Church, Donaghmore.


    Public monies are being assigned to this route so the public ought to be able to derive benefits from it and that can't happen if the service is traversing around 6kms of route, passing houses and amenities on and adjacent to the route, without any stops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    Three months after I reported it, GAIs new Route 197 operation has finally been made public.

    Dublin getting brand new bus service as Go Ahead Ireland launch route 197 between Ashbourne and Swords

    Due to start "later this year". Still a mystery what buses will be used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    GM228 wrote: »
    Three months after I reported it, GAIs new Route 197 operation has finally been made public.

    Dublin getting brand new bus service as Go Ahead Ireland launch route 197 between Ashbourne and Swords

    Due to start "later this year". Still a mystery what buses will be used.

    I find the way the NTA are launching this aswell as the 139 bizarre. While the 139 was basically annouced with a couple of days to spare and almost started operating overnight the process of introducing this has been nearly the opposite.

    What I don't understand is why this and the 139 have been launched as part of a completely separate contract for just one route instead of as part either the GAI Dublin commuter services contract or the BE direct award contract instead of a completelyseparate contract. Most odd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ Tomrota


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I find the way the NTA are launching this aswell as the 139 bizarre. While the 139 was basically annouced with a couple of days to spare and almost started operating overnight the process of introducing this has been nearly the opposite.

    What I don't understand is why this and the 139 have been launched as part of a completely separate contract for just one route instead of as part either the GAI Dublin commuter services contract or the BE direct award contract instead of a completelyseparate contract. Most odd.
    Is this route going to be Go ahead Dublin or like go ahead Kildare? Is it going to be subject to Leap fares and caps? The 139 is oftentimes in random livery, doesn’t have bus stops in places, isn’t subject to leap caps so it’s expensive. I doubt this will be as crap of a service if it’s by go ahead Dublin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Tomrota wrote: »
    Is this route going to be Go ahead Dublin or like go ahead Kildare? Is it going to be subject to Leap fares and caps? The 139 is oftentimes in random livery, doesn’t have bus stops in places, isn’t subject to leap caps so it’s expensive. I doubt this will be as crap of a service if it’s by go ahead Dublin.

    It will be run by Go-Ahead but it's not part of the Dublin or Kildare operating contract it will be operating under a similar contract to the 139. So it may be the case that there won't be stops etc. and the fares will be probably be the same or similar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ ax586


    GM228 wrote: »
    Three months after I reported it, GAIs new Route 197 operation has finally been made public.

    Dublin getting brand new bus service as Go Ahead Ireland launch route 197 between Ashbourne and Swords

    Due to start "later this year". Still a mystery what buses will be used.
    3 adl enviro 200..they are in ballymount already


  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭ ax586


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    It will be run by Go-Ahead but it's not part of the Dublin or Kildare operating contract it will be operating under a similar contract to the 139. So it may be the case that there won't be stops etc. and the fares will be probably be the same or similar.
    It will be based in ballymount


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭ Yer Da sells Avon


    GM228 wrote: »
    Due to start "later this year". Still a mystery what buses will be used.

    487824.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    ax586 wrote: »
    3 adl enviro 200..they are in ballymount already

    Do you know what livery they are or have they been painted yet in the final livery that they'll be in service in
    it will be based in Ballymount

    I figured that what I was saying was it was separate to the Dublin city (ex DB + 175) or Dublin commuter (ex BE) contracts. Similar to the 139 contract which is with JJ Kavanagh as GAI have to provide their own buses not the NTA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    487824.png

    Pity the NTA didn't buy these instead of the Streetlites look much nicer imo. I wonder will the same drivers be working both the city and commuter routes aswell as the 197. I guess they could always paint the buses in NTA livery and use them ocasionally on their ex DB or even their ex BE routes if their stuck


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990


    Those adl Enviro 200's are very nice looking buses.

    Has anyone read or heard any reviews about them through word of mouth or online?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    Those adl Enviro 200's are very nice looking buses.

    Has anyone read or heard any reviews about them through word of mouth or online?

    Standard Enviro 200s are terrible vehicles that are built to a price, go ask Bus Eireann what they thought of their AMs. The newer Enviro 200 MMCs, which the photograph is of, however are a better bus than their predecessor and are a whole vehicle product rather than body on chassis.

    I'd be interested in the maintenance and spares arrangements for those vehicles, bearing in mind that ADL do not have a service presence in Ireland, which is what puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to tenders since they simply cannot compete with Volvo's dealer market. As there's only a few of them Go-Ahead may simply do as much as possible in house, but wouldn't be viable for a large fleet unless ADL invest in a support network.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    Standard Enviro 200s are terrible vehicles that are built to a price, go ask Bus Eireann what they thought of their AMs. The newer Enviro 200 MMCs, which the photograph is of, however are a better bus than their predecessor and are a whole vehicle product rather than body on chassis.

    I'd be interested in the maintenance and spares arrangements for those vehicles, bearing in mind that ADL do not have a service presence in Ireland, which is what puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to tenders since they simply cannot compete with Volvo's dealer market. As there's only a few of them Go-Ahead may simply do as much as possible in house, but wouldn't be viable for a large fleet unless ADL invest in a support network.

    Although there have been some ADL and Dennis intergral products operating in this country both past and present. As you give the example of the BE AM class and there has been DBs DT class and there have been a number of private operators particularly some the Airport shuttles that use them for hotel and staff shuttle buses and Ashbourne Connect also now have an Enviro 400MMC.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Although there have been some ADL and Dennis intergral products operating in this country both past and present. As you give the example of the BE AM class and there has been DBs DT class and there have been a number of private operators particularly some the Airport shuttles that use them for hotel and staff shuttle buses and Ashbourne Connect also now have an Enviro 400MMC.

    The DT was not an integral product. The Trident 2 chassis was created by Dennis of which the Alexander ALX400 (totally independent of Dennis) was one of a number of different body options on that chassis. Later on there was a merger of Dennis, Plaxton and Alexander that formed Transbus International, that went bust and Dennis and Alexander was bought out by Brian Souter and became Alexander Dennis, with Plaxton soon coming back into the group.

    It's one thing to maintain a handful of vehicles that are not worked around the clock yourself without dealer support, it's completely another to have a huge fleet of them operating high frequency intensive city services like DB have. ADL have not gained any real traction with their integral products on the Irish market. The Bus Eireann AMs are the largest fleet of them,

    Volvo do so well in Ireland in both the bus and coach market because their support is class leading and the amount of bus and coach business that the depot in Santry does is truly impressive with a lot of Aircoach, Bernard Kavanagh, Eirebus, Dublin Bus and Bus EIreann vehicles going through there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990


    The 197 route launched today. No major changes were made to the white paintwork on the bus yet. No TFI logos are seen on it yet.

    A large white Go-Ahead Ireland logo is observed on the front of it. The 3 E200's also have a white LED display on the bus.

    https://www.goaheadireland.ie/197-swords-ashbourne-service-launch-sunday-24th-november

    Timetable**

    Note: The timetable for this route is not available on GAI's Routes & Timetables page on it's website or through the Journey Planner website yet. It should become available there next week.

    The route has 17 daily return departures on Monday to Saturday. It has 14 daily return departures on Sunday's & Public Holidays.

    Fares

    Fares are split into 4 zones (A,B,C,D). There are quite good fares to have when compared to the 139 with JJ Kavanaghs.

    Minimum Leap fares are €1.55 for Adults & €1 for a Child

    Minimum Cash fares are €2.15 for Adults & €1.30 for a Child

    Maximum Leap Fares are €3 for Adults & €1.50 a Child

    Maximum Cash Fares are €3.80 for Adults & €1.90 for a Child


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    local row brewing over the absence of stops between the N2 and Rolestown, there are several places between them that were expecting to be served.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,212 ✭✭✭✭ therecklessone


    This bus will serve Knocksedan but the Bus Connects plan has a 197 that does Ashbourne to Airside with no mention of Knocksedan. Anybody any further info? I’ve tweeted GAI and they don’t know any more.

    That’s on top of what looks like a reduced service on the 196.

    Seems odd to launch a new service then remove certain aspects of the route not long after...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,782 ✭✭✭ RobertFoster


    I tried this route last night and I wasn't overly impressed with the service. My first time using Go-Ahead so I'm not sure if it's par for the course or just teething problems on a new route.

    Unless I'm reading the fare table wrong, it should have been €2.50 (Leap) from Ninemile Stone to Swords Main St. but I was charged €3. I suppose I should have stated fare rather than destination to the driver.

    For the return leg, the last bus from the Pavilions stop (23:38) never showed. I was on the route from ~23:25 and waited at the stop until after midnight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭ ExoPolitic


    Strange old route this, terminates so close to the Airport, seems a waste not to go to the airport.

    Also it would be great if they extended it in summer to Tayto park, but that's pie in the sky!


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