Are my apple trees OK?

Dragon101

have two apples trees (james grieve and orange pippin) i planted in March 2017. first summer i didn't get very much out of them. blossoms and then fruit that fell off in a dry spell. This was fine ass they had only just been planted. last summer they blossomed fabulously and i got lots of fruit for such small trees.
i was careful to remove about 2/3rds of them so they wouldn't overload the trees. so i had maybe 10 apples on each left. I also cut back lots of the longer branches in January of this year after reading up on pruning.

i was looking forward to the blossoming again but things don't seem to be going to plan. the first tree, a James Grieves, has only produced a few blossoms and some leaves look a little off. And the weather hasn't been so dry they should have dried out.

The orange pippin i thought might just need a little longer to blossom but then i found one blossom on it that is already gone. and the leaves also look iffy.

I'm worried i might have a disease or a nutrient deficiency. i put down some blood and fish bone fertiliser about a 2 weeks ago but that was possibly too late.
see photos. this post has the james grieve

Dragon101

remaining james grieve photos

Dragon101

orange pippin photos

rolion

Hi,

Thakns for sharing the pain,tought im the only one unlucky lover guy

My plastic container trees are more or less the same.And is not the apples only.
I kind of gave up...

Used to spray every week with a mix of water and washing up liquid,all across leafs.
Some of the leafs stopped deteriorating while on other parts of the tree, started again.
And of different trees,in different location,front and back of the house.

Small little black or green midgets eating and infecting everything everywhere... dunno.
Like a real plague as written in the Bible...

I'm heading this week to a local garden centre and buy a proper chemical liquid,just to be labelled "organic" and give it a go.
Now,keep in your mind that the treatment works only on to new leafs, all the already affected ones should stop dying but not growing anymore.
So is quite peculliar and tricky to see if the treatment is efficient or not...it may take a while to see it.


Good luck...

theteal

Sorry to hijack.

I know very little about apple trees. I am the owner of 2 trees of unknown variety that came with the house we bought last year. They both produced lots and LOTS of apples last year so I don't think there's any latent heath issues. I did have a massive prune back in January - they were reaching into neighbours gardens.

Anyway, the reason I'm chiming in is that some of the leaves on one of them do look very similar to some of the OP's first batch of photos. I will take some pics later. Should we be concerned?

Other than the previous mentioned January prune I have done no maintenance up to now. We're not big into gardening but it is nice to have some interesting stuff growing - we also have grapes, raspberries, rhubarb, black currents, red currents and cherries - I stress again, no history of gardening (who doesn't like a project?!?!)

Lumen

The white stuff looks like powdery mildew to me. Carefully remove affected leaves. Prob got infected (is that the right word?) last summer.

Those slabs don't look like an ideal environment in which to grow a tree.

Dragon101

Lumen wrote: »

The white stuff looks like powdery mildew to me. Carefully remove affected leaves. Prob got infected (is that the right word?) last summer.

Those slabs don't look like an ideal environment in which to grow a tree.

How do you remove mildew? Clean with a solvent or just water?

Dragon101

Dragon101 wrote: »

How do you remove mildew? Clean with a solvent or just water?

Apologies - I googled that one myself. Baking soda and washing up liquid it seams.

magicbastarder

the curled up leaves can sometimes be caused by aphids. any sign of them?

CelticRambler

Your pruning might have been a bit too aggressive. Both varieties are spur-bearers, which makes them more suitable for containers/training/small gardens, but even so, they still need old-ish wood for the spurs to grow on (two-year old wood). As long as you're somewhat restrained this year, they'll flower plentifully next year. Don't forget too that all fruit trees are very susceptible to frost when the flower-buds are opening/have just opened. A single night's hard frost can be enough to do a lot of damage to a young tree's crop.

macraignil

Dragon101 wrote: »

I'm worried i might have a disease or a nutrient deficiency. i put down some blood and fish bone fertiliser about a 2 weeks ago but that was possibly too late.
see photos. this post has the james grieve

To me the two apple trees look reasonably healthy. They may have got some slight frost damage as we have got some frost recently and there may be a slight touch of mildew and some evidence of aphids as well. I would not start spraying any chemicals on these trees as you will not only kill the aphids but also any of the predator insects that would help remove the aphids naturally. Mildew can be present on trees without causing any serious harm and can resolve itself without intervention.



The James Grieve tree looks to have been effected by frost more than the other tree and I would change the way it is being pruned to open up the inside of the branch structure. There are too many branches sprouting from the one point and they are all cut to the same length which makes for poor air flow around the leaves, fruit and flowers and a greater chance of disease problems developing. By having most of the branches cut to the same length you have made the top of the tree very congested and the poor air flow there and damage caused by new growth being blown against other parts of the tree is inviting problems for your tree. The poor air flow may have contributed to the frost damage being worse.



The tree in the grass looks to have been pruned much better and I do not see a health issue with it. You could help it a bit by removing the grass and other plants from an area around the trunk.

Dragon101

macraignil wrote: »

To me the two apple trees look reasonably healthy. ...

Thanks for your post. I might have read it a little too late as I misted the trees last night in a baking soda/washing liquid solution. But hopefully it won’t do any know on damage as you said.

Thanks for the pruning guidance. I’ll have to admit I was not positive on how to prune and a did my best to follow guidance on line but putting into practise can be tricky!

I actually had a very long but thin and weak branch sticking straight up that added maybe a 1/3rd to total height. I felt it was too weak to support anything but should I have left that and simply removed any apples on it to let it get strong over time?

Dragon101

i went to my local garden center and they said straight away it was black flies. the mildew wasn't really an issue and said that i could probably just cut off the affected area. Sure enough when i uncurled some of the curled up leaves there was loads of black flies there.
the black flies mean there definitely wont be any apples this year. i bought some spray for sorting them out which i applied.
i did a check on other plants in my garden and a young red current bush was also affected but only at initial stages. i decided to spray all the plants (gooseberry, red current, strawberries raspberries etc).
it is a long while from harvesting anything so the spray doesn't bother me. I'll be a lot better in looking out for issues earlier next year.

Gary kk

Try putting a some lime at the base of the tree as in White rhino about trowel full

macraignil

Dragon101 wrote: »

i went to my local garden center and they said straight away it was black flies. the mildew wasn't really an issue and said that i could probably just cut off the affected area. Sure enough when i uncurled some of the curled up leaves there was loads of black flies there.
the black flies mean there definitely wont be any apples this year. i bought some spray for sorting them out which i applied.
i did a check on other plants in my garden and a young red current bush was also affected but only at initial stages. i decided to spray all the plants (gooseberry, red current, strawberries raspberries etc).
it is a long while from harvesting anything so the spray doesn't bother me. I'll be a lot better in looking out for issues earlier next year.

I have been growing fruit for over three decades and have never seen black fly prevent a crop of fruit. I have about 15 apple trees, three pear, almost 100 gooseberry, over a hundred blackcurrant, 10 -20 redcurrant, about 50 strawberries, loads of raspberry and some other types of fruit but have never seen the black fly you talk about being a problem. Black fly usually refers to a type of aphid and I have seen it on broad beans, roses and some hedge plants but they provide food for ladybirds, lacewing, hover flies and other insects and if you allow your garden develop with nature rather than using poisonous sprays that will kill the predator insects then their numbers are controlled naturally. The insecticide spray the garden centre sold you is also likely to kill pollinators like bees and other flies and by using it you are less likely to get any fruit as insecticides do not discriminate between helpful and problematic insects.

Dragon101

macraignil wrote: »

I have been growing fruit for over three decades and have never seen black fly prevent a crop of fruit. I have about 15 apple trees, three pear, almost 100 gooseberry, over a hundred blackcurrant, 10 -20 redcurrant, about 50 strawberries, loads of raspberry and some other types of fruit but have never seen the black fly you talk about being a problem. Black fly usually refers to a type of aphid and I have seen it on broad beans, roses and some hedge plants but they provide food for ladybirds, lacewing, hover flies and other insects and if you allow your garden develop with nature rather than using poisonous sprays that will kill the predator insects then their numbers are controlled naturally. The insecticide spray the garden centre sold you is also likely to kill pollinators like bees and other flies and by using it you are less likely to get any fruit as insecticides do not discriminate between helpful and problematic insects.

I wish I had such luck. When I looked closely at the leaves more than half were covered in black flies and about 1/3rd were totally curled around and dying.
I guess I only have 2 apples trees and wouldn’t be happy having them die on me.

macraignil

Dragon101 wrote: »

I wish I had such luck. When I looked closely at the leaves more than half were covered in black flies and about 1/3rd were totally curled around and dying.
I guess I only have 2 apples trees and wouldn’t be happy having them die on me.

The apple trees in the pictures you posted were no way near being about to die. What I have mentioned about not spraying insecticide is not just about luck. If you can work with nature in your garden rather than poisoning it you will have a lot less problems in your garden in my opinion. We have had a great population of ladybirds in my garden so far this year and they would make a nice black fly meal for them selves on your apple trees if they were not killed by the insecticide.