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Gigginstown House Stud to wind down their racing operations

  • 14-05-2019 12:25pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 184 ✭✭


    Did anyone see this coming? The big losers here are Gordon Elliott who will have to find new owners that have a similar cheque book to what Michael O'Leary had in order to keep up the pace set by WP Mullins.

    What must Willie Mullins be feeling now though? He will quietly be dancing a jig to hear this surprise news, that's for sure.

    I look forward to hear what other posters think and their thoughts on their favorite Gigginstown horses in the past? There were many like War of Attrition, Apple's Jade, Don Cossack and of course Tiger Roll, to name but a few.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    Can you at least post a link to the fake news Donald :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭ASOT


    BumperD wrote: »
    Can you at least post a link to the fake news Donald :)

    It's not fake news unfortunately Bumper.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2019/0514/1049388-gigginstown-will-stop-purchasing-young-horses/

    Big shake up coming if they follow through with it anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    I do not follow National Hunt but I am not surprised.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48 RoyalAcademy2


    My initial reaction is: good riddance.

    They always treated certain people in the game with contempt and now they (he!) has just run out of interest?

    It beggars belief.

    Just yesterday I has a conversation with an industry veteran concerning Sheikh Mohammed along the same lines. It seems inevitable that the Arabs will significantly reduce their involvement in years to come and this will be the chillest of all winds.

    I believe, in both Ireland and the UK, there is far, far too much racing (and too many racecourses) and a lot is built on a foundation of sand.

    Typical of O'Leary to have an announcement about this as it will echo on for years to come and the "Ryanair" model will perpetuate.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    ASOT wrote: »
    It's not fake news unfortunately Bumper.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2019/0514/1049388-gigginstown-will-stop-purchasing-young-horses/

    Big shake up coming if they follow through with it anyway.

    Oh crap that’s not good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    No real surprise. Not much enjoyment to be had with having 5 or 6 horses in one race on a regular basis.
    Spending upwards of 300k on 3 year olds with Mikey' s impending retirement wasn't going to last either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,866 ✭✭✭Panrich


    Does anyone know how many horses they have in training altogether? It's a huge loss to trainers but they will have at least up to 4 or 5 years to wean themselves off the dependence and streamline their operations gradually.

    The big problem as already pointed out is on how the dependence on relatively few big owners like Gigginstown unbalance the whole racing market here and their loss will be very hard felt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 158 ✭✭jkbkhhho7t


    not good for Irish racing , Gigginstown pumped millions into it where is all the money going to come from now ? most peoples whinging about them was easily fixable with a three runners per race per owner rule


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    I think it is great news for Irish jumps racing.
    I would like the same for flat racing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Surely HRI would have been in discussion with both the O'Leary and JP about their long term plans?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    I don’t think this is good news for Irish racing. Nearly every horse in the country rated 150+ will be stabled in Closutton.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Spend more time with his children??

    Its not as if he was stuck down in Roscommon last night cheering on Swingbridge while the kids had no Daddy at their hockey match.

    Would say its more like they have won all the big chases they wanted to win and getting bored with it now.

    Ediie will have to fend for himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    It was no secret that the main goal the last few years was to help make GE champion trainer. They went hell for leather and it still eluded them. Big reason they're winding down now. imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies


    Tis very bad news for National Hunt racing. The amount of people that would have relied on GG money to make a living must be in the 1000s.

    It won't be easy to replace them with an owner/owners willing to piss their money away for the sake of sport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,933 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Not sure I buy that. Why would Michael O'Leary spend tens of millions a year to help a complete stranger be champion trainer?

    The fact he is scaling back the operation completely suggests to me that he has just fallen out of love with the game. I seem to remember earlier this year when Apple's Jade was running in the Leopardstown Champion Hurdle, and he didn't even bother turning up because he went to watch the rugby instead. The race was on well before the match, and it was just down the road. I know the Dublin racing festival isn't exactly Cheltenham, but if an owner can't be motivated to attend it, then I would question his commitment to racing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Yep,MOL doesn't give a fiddlers about Gordon Elliot or anyone else in racing.

    He was just a young trainer that he and Eddie could manipulate and get their own way with.

    Funny enough I heard last week that he was going to send a few horses back to Willie Mullins.

    Its a shame though as they had a lot of good horses that reflected well on Ireland at the big meetings but shipped a lot of criticism as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Mostly Harmless


    O'Leary getting out ahead of the curve, jumps racing will die on it's arse and he knows it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,933 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    O'Leary is very wealthy, but he does sell Ryanair shares every year, presumably to provide the cash flow to finance Gigginstown. I wonder now that he has won everything, perhaps he is just fed up having to write a check for millions every year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,775 ✭✭✭✭Slattsy


    Will he come back under another guise, ie owner Micheal OLeary solely, and maybe have a small number of horses for one trainer..

    Strange to completely pull the plug after all that time and investment, with such a bull**** excuse. Strange indeed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    Not sure I buy that. Why would Michael O'Leary spend tens of millions a year to help a complete stranger be champion trainer?

    Elliott is hardly a complete stranger to MOL. Gigginstown had great success for years yet they went hell for leather buying the last couple of years with the majority going to Elliott. I've heard from many sources that they wanted him to become champion trainer and i believe it to be true. GL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    Slattsy wrote: »
    Will he come back under another guise, ie owner Micheal OLeary solely, and maybe have a small number of horses for one trainer..

    Strange to completely pull the plug after all that time and investment, with such a bull**** excuse. Strange indeed.

    They have lots of young horses to go into training so he'll be around for another 8 years or so at least.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭DJIMI TRARORE


    Call me a sceptic,but would Ryanair be about to announce something soon,I know,completely different to Gigginstown,but then again it's OLeary


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    A move to get Tiger Roll carrying 10-0 in next year's Grand National. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Wonder if he's pulling his sponsorship... that would be huge too!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    O'Leary getting out ahead of the curve, jumps racing will die on it's arse and he knows it.

    In a nutshell. Controlled exit.

    Both O Leary's have been very vocal on the selling of the Irish TV rights to Racing UK, predicting that the industry would be fecked in a very short period of time with limited prize money and nobody watching. HRI came out with some fluffy denial.

    The industry has been squeezed by the bookies who put not a whole lot back in. ARC have pissed off everyone in the UK industry with the poor state of prize money.

    Couple that with buying horses that put up miraculous cameos and performances on the point to point circuit, but prove a disappointment on track, especially for the monies paid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    O'Leary getting out ahead of the curve, jumps racing will die on it's arse and he knows it.

    Why do you think jumps racing will die?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Annabella1


    Retained the Grand National
    Won Gold Cups and multiple grade 1’s
    Has always says publicly that he loses his shirt on running Gigginstown
    Nothing left to achieve
    Will probably bring Mullingar RFC to the AIL next


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Motivator


    There are winners and losers in this situation. Many will benefit from increased opportunities but I feel Irish Racing as a whole will suffer.

    I’m never short to criticise the Gigginstown operation. I feel a lot of the things they do are wrong but I also have to acknowledge the good that they do. I hate seeing multiple runners in races and half the runners on a card owned by one man but I feel Irish Racing will be worse off without him. I never thought he would pull the plug completely, I envisioned a big scale back where a focus was on quality rather than quantity but the announcement today was a surprise.

    Who replaces the money Gigginstown pump into the Irish Racing now?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,974 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭NaiveMelodies



    It's free, just need to create an account.

    'Analysis' is extremely generous. Nothing new or interesting mentioned in the piece.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭paddy no 11


    This is going to spread the wealth in terms of prize money among owners and trainers as the 2 million? gigginstown will get passed around to other operations.

    First to suffer will be breeders as P2P winners will not be going for 300k anymore, hopefully other owners/syndicates can enter the market if prices do come down, but will definitely be a blow at that level


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    ASOT wrote: »
    It's not fake news unfortunately Bumper.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2019/0514/1049388-gigginstown-will-stop-purchasing-young-horses/

    Big shake up coming if they follow through with it anyway.

    Nonsense excuse, kids are nearly teenagers so he will leave in 4 or 5 years, they wont want to know him when they are 17 / 18


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    Think Samcro and Weapons Amnesty the only two out of all the horses they’ve owned that I was fond of and wanted to do well irrespective of whether my money was down. A lot of slow yokes that wanted 10 miles ran in their colours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    Think Samcro and Weapons Amnesty the only two out of all the horses they’ve owned that I was fond of and wanted to do well irrespective of whether my money was down. A lot of slow yokes that wanted 10 miles ran in their colours.


    Weapons amnesty, what a horse. Who knows what he could have achieved only for the injuries.

    That's the jumps game for you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    This is going to spread the wealth in terms of prize money among owners and trainers as the 2 million? gigginstown will get passed around to other operations.

    First to suffer will be breeders as P2P winners will not be going for 300k anymore, hopefully other owners/syndicates can enter the market if prices do come down, but will definitely be a blow at that level

    Think its been other players paying the big money for pointers rather than Giggintown lately who have been more investing in stores and the market hasn't been affected,450k pointer won its bumper tonight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    Weapons amnesty, what a horse. Who knows what he could have achieved only for the injuries.

    That's the jumps game for you.

    Yeah, he was some tool. I loved him. Micko really ought to have had more horses with Charles, landed a few touches. Too much money spent buying slow chasers, not enough pulling strokes. That’s where he went wrong and why JP will stand the test of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Motivator


    Yeah, he was some tool. I loved him. Micko really ought to have had more horses with Charles, landed a few touches. Too much money spent buying slow chasers, not enough pulling strokes. That’s where he went wrong and why JP will stand the test of time.

    In the last five years Gigginstown have won over €2m more in prize money than McManus between Ireland and the UK with about 200 less runners than McManus so that makes your point redundant to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    Yeah, he was some tool. I loved him. Micko really ought to have had more horses with Charles, landed a few touches. Too much money spent buying slow chasers, not enough pulling strokes. That’s where he went wrong and why JP will stand the test of time.

    It would be Charles landing the touch and not the owner, hence why Charles has fcuk all horses bar the ones he owns himself.

    He may have had way too many runners in races for my liking but at least they were trying unlike that yoke from Limerick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 230 ✭✭WicklowBrave


    I wasn’t being serious.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭longshotvalue


    Shemale wrote: »
    Nonsense excuse, kids are nearly teenagers so he will leave in 4 or 5 years, they wont want to know him when they are 17 / 18


    He doesnt need an excuse , he gave a clue at punchestown i thought.


    He cant really achieve much more with it, and eventually youd have to get sick of being the eejit poaring the money into it and loosing every year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 cashcarson







    Ian Gaughran
    May 14 2019 10:20 PM







    AND like that, he’s gone!
    Not quite, but Michael O’Leary is riding off into the racing sunset. The question on everybody’s lips is why? Why would Ireland’s seven-time National Hunt champion owner be packing in what has been a massively successful operation which has enjoyed some of the great days in the sport.
    Red Rum’s achievement in winning back-to-back Aintree Grand Nationals was never going to be emulated – it was just too big an ask.
    It wasn’t, as it turns out. It was done with style and with a little bit left in the tank – just last month – by Gigginstown House Stud’s Tiger Roll. O’Leary’s little horse had repeated history.
    Gold Cups, Irish Grand Nationals, Aintree Grand Nationals, numerous Cheltenham and Punchestown Festival wins. O’Leary won his own race at Cheltenham just last year when Balko Des Flos won the Ryanair Chase. Maybe, though, the writing was on the wall. Delve a little deeper and yesterday’s decision doesn’t actually come as the major surprise it seemed at the outset.
    As surprising as Ruby Walsh’s retirement at Punchestown was, there had been murmurings for some time that his career could be in the very latter stages.


    342.jpg















    Again, in hindsight, it’s not the biggest shock in the world when a 40-year-old with an injury record as long as his decides enough is enough.
    O’Leary, however, is one of the richest men in the country and yesterday he decided not to reinvest in a sport anymore, a sport which saw him take in close to €5m in prize money last season.
    Gigginstown will wind down over the next five years or so. In essence, they will no longer be buying new horses to race in their maroon silks with the white star.
    O’Leary suggested that commitments with his kids won’t allow him time to get racing anymore and enjoy the sport as an owner should. A politician’s excuse, cynics will claim.
    There is, of course, nothing wrong with his reasoning. There is everything right with it, it just hasn’t washed with many. Plenty cried foul, plenty sought a more sinister reason. Is there a scandal coming?
    Fortunately, there doesn’t appear to be any whiff of an FAI-style controversy surrounding this one.
    Back to delving deeper and it looks as though the Ryanair supremo simply lost the love for the game. And when you’re onto a loser without the passion anymore, a good businessman will probably tell you to walk away.
    Take when Apple’s Jade won the BHP Insurances Irish Champion Hurdle at Leopardstown in February. It was the Dublin Racing Festival and the biggest National Hunt meeting, pre-Cheltenham, there is.
    Apple’s Jade passed the Foxrock winning post seconds before 1.30pm that afternoon and Ireland’s Call wasn’t due to be belted out in the Aviva until 4.42pm before Ireland faced England in the Six Nations.
    Apple’s Jade was the hottest property in racing yet O’Leary was nowhere to be found – he was off to watch Ireland being roundly beaten by the old enemy. A shift in his priority perhaps?
    Back to O’Leary’s kids, who have often been wheeled out for photographs on big days at the races – they were front and centre when Tiger Roll returned to Summerhill, just last month after his momentous success.
    O’Leary’s enthusiasm for horseracing may just not have rubbed off on the kids and maybe it is one genuine reason why, as he might say himself, “he can’t be arsed” anymore.
    Maybe he got bored, maybe the operation, and his interest, had peaked – a second successive Grand National isn’t a bad way to exit stage left, to be fair.
    O’Leary was reported to be €167m down on 2018 in the Sunday Times rich list published earlier this month. He is still worth €865m but his racing operation certainly wasn’t adding to his wealth.
    Between races in Ireland and England last season, Gigginstown House Stud earned close to €5m.
    They ran 226 individual horses on the track in Ireland.
    Estimates would suggest that each horse is costing O’Leary a conservative €1750 a month in training fees and given that they are each in training for 10 months of the year you are looking at an outlay of close to €4m.
    Think back to the public falling out O’Leary had with champion trainer Willie Mullins over something like a fiver a week per horse and we start to see someone becoming tired of just throwing money at the game – it became a very expensive hobby.
    Throw in another conservative estimate of €250,000 for horses who didn’t race for various reasons, not to mention vet costs etc, and you close in on that prizemoney very quick.
    And these figures don’t include the purchase of any horse last season.
    So while O’Leary has won over €28m in prize money in Ireland since he got into racing, you can be sure he hasn’t come out with a profit from that outlay.
    He is also on the record down the years claiming to have lost fortunes from his passion.
    What shouldn’t be forgotten is that Michael O’Leary and Gigginstown still own a lot of horses who we have hardly heard of yet.
    There are four and five-year-olds that will really only get going this winter when the National Hunt season kicks into gear again and those could easily still be going strong at nine and ten.
    The maroon and white are not restocking, but they’re not going away in a hurry either.
    The industry will take a massive hit from Gigginstown’s exit. Many will feel the pinch. O’Leary, however, has done what, on the face of it, looks like the decent thing.
    It’s a five-year phasing out of his operation and gives all those potentially affected time to get their ducks in a row and replace lost earnings.
    Racing will endure, as it had before O’Leary arrived around 15 years ago or so. It’s in a better place, in all honesty, and will endure, as it always has.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    aidankkk wrote: »
    He doesnt need an excuse , he gave a clue at punchestown i thought.


    He cant really achieve much more with it, and eventually youd have to get sick of being the eejit poaring the money into it and loosing every year.

    Didnt say he did, just said it was bull****.

    Surprised it took them so long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,933 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/michael-oleary-struggling-to-go-cold-turkey-and-hopes-to-return-in-future/388561

    I do have to laugh. He blames not seeing his teenage kids as the main reason why he's packing in jumps racing. Apparently, since they're at boarding school, weekends are the only times he can spend with them.

    Did it not occur to him that he could simply not put them in boarding school?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 606 ✭✭✭famagusta


    The Derby sales results were good during the week, hopefully a lot more owners will get into the game or expand their strings now. This will be better for racing in the long term no doubt about it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49178670

    The bad news was coming so I wonder did this have an impact. The optics of enjoying racing and laying off staff ..


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