Racist member of support group

LegacyUser

I have been attending a depression support group for about ten years. Before the meeting starts there are usually a few people who are in early (including myself) so we have a chat among ourselves.
One of these people has been making racist and bigoted comments in the course of these conversations. He doesn't say these things during the course of the meeting as the facilitators would reprimand him I am sure. He doesn't do it before every meeting but has done it a few times. For instance he says things like "I hate prods (meaning Protestants)", "I hate the English", "I hate Muslims" etc.
I also have reason to believe he is quite homophobic and probably has a range of other prejudices. He is very pro-IRA and has a strong dislike of anyone from a Protestant/Unionist background.
He has frequently referred to the golfer Rory McIlroy as "an Orange b######".
Lat night he took it too far though. He went on a rant about how much hates English people and after that spoke about the incident in the news where the DJ Danny Baker posted an offensive image about the new Royal baby. He said Meghan Markle got him fired (utter nonsense of course) and defended Danny Bakers actions. He has frequently played videos on his phone to us that have racist undertones.
There was an English person coming to the meetings and he stopped coming, I don't know why but I would not be surprised if it was because of the person I am posting about. As far as I know he didn't make any offensive remarks in his presence I must add.
I am not a Protestant or a Muslim, in fact I am not from any "minority" of any kind but I find his views abhorrent. I have a particular problem with racist/bigoted people, I just can't stand them.
I posted about it here before but didn't do anything but this time I decided I had had enough and told one of the facilitators after the meeting. She expressed outrage and said she would speak to him (I presume before the next meeting as he was gone home by then).
I know what will happen is the person concerned will be given a warning and told not to say these things anymore. He will probably agree and may apologise and that will be the end of the matter.
That's not really going to cut the mustard for me because it's more the fact that he holds these kinds of opinions is what I object to. Saying "I'm sorry" or "I didn't actually mean any of that, I was only messing" is not good enough. I have decided not to attend the meetings anymore as long as he is there.
The racist person I am talking about is probably the most ignorant person you could meet. He didn't have a formal education and only learnt to read and write recently. The guy just breaks the barrier of ignorance really. I sent an email to the HQ of the depression support group (you have probably guessed which one it is) explaining the problem and asking if he could be barred and I am waiting to hear back.
I am fairly certain I will get a load of lip service though; "we can only warn him about his behaviour, demand that he apologise but we can't ban anyone from a meeting".
There are others in the meeting who have been present when he said the things I am talking about so what I am saying can be corroborated by them. I think the others find his views offensive too but maybe take the view of "sure what can we do about it". I didn't tell the facilitators that I wasn't coming back because I only decided that today really. I am disappointed but not disappointed in another way because I don't have to listen to his bigoted sh### anymore. My principles are important to me and I am prepared to stand my ground.
It would be great if he was barred or if the others in the meeting said they wanted him gone as well and would not attend either until that happens but I don't think they will do that. I don't want to make them do that either because it wouldn't be fair on them. I do know that I am a popular member of the group and they would be sad to see me go.
I don't think you can really ban a person from a meeting anyway. How would you prevent him from coming? It is a bit unfair that he will be allowed to continue to attend while I am not.
Has anyone any experience of a situation like this?

Big Bag of Chips

Unfortunately depression affects all sections of society. Level of education, religious or political beliefs don't matter. So unlike other "social" groups where like minded people meet up you are more likely in a support group like that to meet people from every walk of life.

In fairness, you admit that you said nothing the last time. And now you have. Give the group facilitator a chance to deal with it before deciding you're never going back. You can also avoid being in his company. Don't go in quite so early. Don't engage in conversation with him. You are right, that they are probably likely to tell him to not do it again, but it doesn't mean he'll stop having those views. He'll just stop expressing them.

But, there's little you can do about that. You can't police someone's thoughts. It's very likely there are others in the group who hold similar views but just don't broadcast them. And you're happy with that, because you don't know.

I think, if the group is of benefit to you, you shouldn't stop attending. See what happens over the next few weeks. He might decide himself not to come back. If he has such a chip on his shoulder about everyone and everything he mightn't take too kindly to a woman telling him what to do!!

If you feel it's necessary to leave, at least contact the course facilitator and ask them for information of another one local enough that you could join instead.

Church on Tuesday

Why should you stop attending just because of this cretins guff?

We all encounter clowns like this in day to day life at some stage and trust me, I can see how having to listen to his bile would get tiresome after a while, but if you get on well with others in your group and the meetings are working for you, why let this one idiot ruin it for you?

You've raised the issue with the higher ups; it's up to them to decide what to do, but I reckon he'll get a severe enough warning and with a bit of luck he may get the hump and jog on.

Failing all that, all you can do really is look for another group if you can.

LegacyUser

No I won't go back as long as he is there. I just couldn't stay in a room with a person like that. I want nothing to do with them, full stop.

joeguevara

Next time he talks about Rory McElroy being ‘orange ba5tard’ let him know Rory is Roman Catholic. Tell him that this means his bigotry has no real basis as he hates someone for the wrong reason and shows how ridiculous his attitude is. If that doesn’t stop his diatribe then if he is in your presence excuse yourself. If he calls you out in it, let him know that his attitude isn’t what you want to be associated with.

Rubberchikken

dont encourage him by engaging with him.
if no-one listens to his nonsense or watches his videos he'll soon get the message.

im all for people being allowed their opinion and the ability to express their dislikes etc but repeatedly doing it gets tiresome.

LegacyUser

I am not a bleeding heart liberal who believes every single Muslim, Protestant or English person is perfectly lovely. Yes there are English people who are ant-Irish, yes there are Protestants who hate Irish catholics and yes there are Muslims who have a hatred towards people from the West. But NOT ALL of them do as this guy obviously believes.
Some people have suggested replying to this guy and challenging him. There's no point, he just won't listen. The thing with ignoramuses like him is there is no reasoning with them.
The problem is really me; others can detest a person like that just as much as me but can ignore him or just tolerate his existence. I can't, I just can't.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note
Richard, can I just check, Personal Issues is an advice forum where posters come seeking advice. On rereading your original post, and your replies, it seems you're not looking for advice as such but more a general discussion on this type of behaviour

Unfortunately that's not the purpose of PI. Can you tell me if you're looking for advice on how best to proceed, or have you your mind made up? Because if you are not looking for advice, we will either lock the thread, or find a more suitable forum for the discussion.

Thanks.

iamwhoiam

richard_90 wrote: »

No I won't go back as long as he is there. I just couldn't stay in a room with a person like that. I want nothing to do with them, full stop.

Can you stop going early so you don't have time to see this man before the meetings ? In the meeting stay clear of him and if he sits beside you move away
If you are in a room with him at any stage and he says anything you disagree with then purposely walk away and go elsewhere.
These people need fuel to carry on so don't give it to him

LegacyUser

Apologies to the mods; I was looking for advice and I have got that; find another group or don't go in so early so I don't have to meet him.
I was hoping someone would post who had experienced a similar situation and the person had been removed from the group. That is what I would like to happen.
Hopefully that clarifies it and apologies again.

December2012

I am sure that you do not want to receive support in a support group from somebody who believes in things like this man has said.

The thing is though, racist people are everywhere. So you may go to another support group, and it is likely that there will be some racist or bigoted people there too, you just might not know.

So otherwise if the group is working for you, you could simply say to that man next time he kicks off that you don't like what he is saying and that you don't think that the group is the appropriate place for that kind of talk. and then stay away from him, but not the group.

Large bottle small glass

richard_90 wrote: »

No I won't go back as long as he is there. I just couldn't stay in a room with a person like that. I want nothing to do with them, full stop.

Someone who speaks like that, with all that hate, primarily hates themselves.

The outspoken hate is a mask to hide their weakness; which terrifies them.

Once you know that you can use it to empower yourself and tune him out. He wants conflict, don't give it to him

Yeah, you'd wonder about people who are driven by hate like that..

Jimmy Bottlehead

OP, racist comments and speech which upsets and puts off other group members is not acceptable in any support group setting.

Speak to your group facilitator and the likelihood is this gentleman will be taken aside and spoken to about his comments. If he doesn't rein them in, he'll be told to either take a break from the group or stop attending.

Nobody attending a group needs to feel uncomfortable.

Xterminator

Hi Op

if you and other decent people in the group stop attending, then the racist attitude wins.

You really need to tackle this issue, but it doesn't have to be head on. Talk with the group co-0rdinator, preferably with another witness to ask them to intervene.

If you decide to tackle them head on, then you should call them out on each an every comment consistently & publicly. when you don't respond they assume you tacitly agree with them.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

DEFTLEFTHAND

First off tell him that Mcilroy is an Irish Catholic. It's not uncommon for Catholics to be unionist in the north.

Ask about his own background. Does he have an actual ancient Irish surname or is it of English extraction (planter).

That's how you deal with these assholes, you destroy their self identity.

LegacyUser

Someone said there may be others in the group who are also racist; I am fairly certain they are not. I sent a mail to the HQ of the group that organises the meetings asking could he be banned but I didn't get a reply, shock horror.
One of the others who attends the meetings said he supports me and said there are two others who don't like his carry-on either. Whether that means they would support me in insisting on his removal from the group or just that he cop on I don't know.
See most people won't like it but won't feel strongly enough to stop going to the meetings.
I have tackled this person head on about what he is saying but it's like talking to a brick wall.
This guy lacks the basic intelligence to even understand what terms like "bigoted" or "racist" means.

joeguevara

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

First off tell him that Mcilroy is an Irish Catholic. It's not uncommon for Catholics to be unionist in the north.

Ask about his own background. Does he have an actual ancient Irish surname or is it of English extraction (planter).

That's how you deal with these assholes, you destroy their self identity.

The guy is going to feel even more stupid. Rory, a catholic has declared for Ireland in the Olympics.

ongarboy

joeguevara wrote: »

The guy is going to feel even more stupid. Rory, a catholic has declared for Ireland in the Olympics.

Stupid or ignorant people never feel stupid or ignorant which is why they carry on, blissfully unaware.. I guess that is where the saying "ignorance is bliss" comes from.....

OP, it was said earlier in this thread but I think it needs reiterating. You cannot change or police other peoples views - you can however choose not to engage, react, retaliate. There will always be people in every walk of life who's views you don't agree with. As long as the guy is not expressing his views during the support group conversations (the moderator of such groups should be preventing such dialogue then anyway), there should be no reason for you to get upset or offended. Distance yourself from him if you arrive early or alternatively, do not arrive until a minute before start of class and stay away from him during tea breaks or equivalent.

B0jangles

9 times out of 10 this stuff comes from people who feel robbed of success in life to which they feel entitled and instead of looking at themselves and their own inadequacies, decide to blame everyone else - they'd be successful, rich, happy etc. etc., if it weren't for the Gays/Feminists/Foreigners

You can't argue them out of this stuff with facts because it's not the result of any factual thought process, it's all just a big bubble of resentment and anger.

Continue to report this person's racist statements to the facilitators and ask anyone you know in the group who feels the same as you to report them as well.

A diagnosis of depression is not carte blanche to be an asshóle.

wiggle16

OP in all honesty I think you are letting this get to you way too much.

Obviously the guy is a troglodyte, and the group in general feel the same way as you do. But you won't change him and I don't think it's good for you to be so affected by this. It's not the job of the course facilitators to police his views. All they can do is say to him they've been made aware he is making people uncomfortable in the group and ask him to stop. If he does, they cannot do any more than that, it's happening outside of operating hours anyway.

If he stops, then that should be the end of it. That's when residual negativity becomes your problem. You need to learn to ignore him completely and avoid his company as much as possible. If you cannot do that, you should consider leaving the group. You're on a hiding to nothing otherwise.

road_high

My experience of ****e like this is you’ve got to be assertive. Just say you’re not interested in this type of conversation, end of.
You won’t stop his idiotic views but at least you won’t have to listen to them on loop

mikemac2

That so called republican clown never heard of Wolfe Tone or Sam Maguire or countless others from the Church of Ireland

I think you didn’t give the facilitator enough time regarding the email. Is it about 5 days or a week? Maybe they are checking things out. Sure ask for an update but I wouldn’t say you have been ignored

SirChenjin

OP, I think you have done all that you can in highlighting this to the facilitator etc. Leave it with them now to handle it from here.

As others have advised, steer clear. Avoid conversation with this person. If needs be, when they start saying something that is totally abhorrent to you, say 'I'm going to stop you there/I don't want to hear this' and then move away.

LegacyUser

I stopped going to the meetings anyway. I haven't been back since I first posted about it. I didn't miss it for the first few weeks but I am starting to miss it now. I don't miss talking myself there because I just used to say the same thing every week but I do miss the friends I made there (apart from the racist guy obviously). I don't really have any friends outside the meeting and I'd been going there for almost ten years so I made some good friends there.
I have always had problems being around people like that racist guy, I just can't stand to be around them.
I texted one guy a few times, he is a very intelligent and articulate person, I enjoyed his company. I can't go back as long as that other cretin is there and going to another support group is out of the question because it's an hour's drive away.
It would be perfect if the other guy stopped going but that will not happen. If I could find another support group nearby it would be great but there isn't.

Church on Tuesday

richard_90 wrote: »

I stopped going to the meetings anyway. I haven't been back since I first posted about it. I didn't miss it for the first few weeks but I am starting to miss it now. I don't miss talking myself there because I just used to say the same thing every week but I do miss the friends I made there (apart from the racist guy obviously). I don't really have any friends outside the meeting and I'd been going there for almost ten years so I made some good friends there.
I have always had problems being around people like that racist guy, I just can't stand to be around them.
I texted one guy a few times, he is a very intelligent and articulate person, I enjoyed his company. I can't go back as long as that other cretin is there and going to another support group is out of the question because it's an hour's drive away.
It would be perfect if the other guy stopped going but that will not happen. If I could find another support group nearby it would be great but there isn't.

Keep in contact and meet up with the friends you made anyways and if that other guy leaves they will know and will contact you about it.

Ursus Horribilis

Is there really no way you can't get over having this guy in this group? Because of him, you're the one who is losing out on the double. You've no longer got the support you had and you've cut a social circle out of your life.

In my experience, there are very few gatherings of people where you won't have at least one person who is annoying. Workplaces, night classes, clubs/societies, support groups, families... I don't doubt that this guy is an obnoxious a-hole but you have built him up into a monster in your mind. Is your inability to handle people like this part of the reason why you need this support group? Why can't you call him out every single time he starts at this bigoted shyte?

Looking back at the action you took about him, all you did was send an email to complain. Emails are easy to ignore, I'm afraid. It is time to escalate this by picking up a phone and actually speaking to the people who oversee this group. Sitting there seething didn't help you, nor did staying away.

SirChenjin

I agree with everything Ursus has said.

From your OP 'I do know that I am a popular member of the group and they would be sad to see me go.'

Don't let this person drive you away from something you enjoyed attending, and from people who enjoyed your company. I would encourage you to return and if nothing has changed, to speak again, privately to whoever facilitates the group, about the issue.

And as advised previously, just say firmly 'I don't want to hear that' if he does start, and move away.
Promise yourself you will go next week and see how things go.

Church on Tuesday

SirChenjin wrote: »

I agree with everything Ursus has said.

From your OP 'I do know that I am a popular member of the group and they would be sad to see me go.'

Don't let this person drive you away from something you enjoyed attending, and from people who enjoyed your company. I would encourage you to return and if nothing has changed, to speak again, privately to whoever facilitates the group, about the issue.

And as advised previously, just say firmly 'I don't want to hear that' if he does start, and move away.
Promise yourself you will go next week and see how things go.

That's fine but sometimes people don't want or need to be near a negative influence especially if they have struggled with things themselves.

The OP shouldn't deprive himself of this positive outlet but if it's causing distress and the organizers aren't wiling to do anything about it then keeping in contact with those friends and seeking another group if possible may be best for OP.

LegacyUser

can't you and ther others who don't like him just ignore him. if he starts say you are not interested and all of you move to another part of the room

LegacyUser

In response to the person who said I should follow up my email of complaint about the racist guy; I did get a reply to the email from the HQ of the support group but it seemed like a load of lip service.
I will keep in touch with the guy from the group that I texted but the members of the group are not supposed to talk about issues raised in the group with people outside the group (and technically I am outside the group).
I also don't want to contact him with the sole purpose of getting info on what is going on in the group because that would be rude.