Useful Ethical Consumer articles

davidjtaylor

New Ethical Consumer guides:

Cat food

Dog food

Meat-free sausages and burgers

Blows out some of the soya myths ethical vegans get thrown at them.

Vexorg

Reading the articles and having a a hard time with some of the content and supporting data. Just curious if you looked at the data yourself?

davidjtaylor

Vexorg wrote: »

Reading the articles and having a a hard time with some of the content and supporting data. Just curious if you looked at the data yourself?

What are you having issues with specifically - there are three separate reports there. The online versions of reports may not be as wordy as their printed ones. I don’t get the hard copy these days - they often contained reader criticism and queries which were sometimes useful.

Vexorg

Just strange on the vegetarian and vegan forum to have a couple of articles and how to choose the brands of "ethical" meat-based cat and dog food. Was that your intention?

Then the experts having a discussion on vegan cat food,

Andrew Knight Veterinary Professor of Animal Welfare and Ethics, Founding Director of the Centre for Animal Welfare, at the University of Winchester and an experienced dog and cat veterinarian starts off by stating the obvious

"Dogs and cats do indeed have well-established nutritional requirements and will eventually suffer health problems if fed diets deficient in these nutrients."

Then does on to say poor meat based diets carry similar risks and have caused more problems in the past than vegan diets ever have. Why not compare a good meat based diet and what proof does he have of this?

He actually says

"millions of helpless cats and dogs are forced to eat body parts from cows, pigs, sheep, ducks, chickens and fish – animals they would never naturally eat"

I will admit I cannot see a cat or dog taking on a cow or full grown pig. I am pretty certain that cats and dogs would kill and eat ducks chicken and fish. Dogs defiantly kill and eat sheep (maybe not a whole one) and possibly calves. Dogs eat fish, they catch them in the river in our local park, cats probably do also, but I have never seen a cat in the river.

So what does he mean by would never naturally eat? In my opinion and experience he is incorrect. I have read his piece a couple of times and to be honest he is not saying anything.

He links to a 2016 study called "Vegetarian versus Meat-Based Diets for Companion Animals" (Its his own study) which does not confirm that a vegan diet is better or as good as meat based or that it delivers everything a cat or dog needs nutritionally.

He uses words and phrases like "may", "could" "can be designed to" "aims to" things that are possible but not certain.

There is more certainty from Daniella Dos Santos British Veterinary Association Junior Vice President and Companion Animal Vet.

“We welcome pet owners taking an interest in the sourcing and ethics of their pets’ food, but an owner’s values must not be projected onto their pets if this results in a diet that is unhealthy and unsuitable for the animal.

Cats are obligate carnivores which means they require animal-sourced ingredients to provide essential dietary nutrients in order to remain healthy. These include preformed vitamin A and arachidonic acid, higher requirements for overall protein, arginine, the sulphurcontaining amino acids cysteine and methionine, and a requirement for the free amino acid taurine, all of which are minimal or even absent in plant ingredients.

The health risks of unbalanced diets can be life-threatening and given the complexities and current research, we do not advise withdrawing meat from a cat’s diet. If potential owners are distressed by the idea of feeding meat to their pet then we would suggest that they opt for an animal which is naturally suited to a meat-free diet.”

I have not read the meat free sausage and burger article, that vegan cat and dog food report took me down a rabbit hole of referenced reports and studies including a pretty interesting one from our very own ERSI.

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

New Ethical Consumer guides:

Cat food

Dog food

Meat-free sausages and burgers

Blows out some of the soya myths ethical vegans get thrown at them.

Does it? I dont think so

A quick look and for example it quotes an expert
( British Veterinary Association's Junior Vice President)

Until this is available, we do not recommend vegetarian or vegan diets for cats or dogs. Cats, in particular, should not be fed meat-free diets because it is so difficult to deliver what they need without meat and the risk to their health is too high."

It also details that a lot of fake meats / meat substitutes are not using ethically sourced soya etc

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/sites/default/files/styles/image_only_xlarge/public/images/2019-03/soya-sustainability-table.jpg?itok=MSl24Mnd

The articles appear to contain a range of contradictory information tbh. The articles are also extremly wordy mentions the v word a lot but don't appear to come to any firm conclusions one way or the other tbh

davidjtaylor

Vexorg wrote: »

Just strange on the vegetarian and vegan forum to have a couple of articles and how to choose the brands of "ethical" meat-based cat and dog food. Was that your intention?

Quick glances at the articles list vegan brands as best-rated in many of their categories. Only subscribers get full details.

Vexorg

Posting links to articles that require you to register with the site in uncool.

Can you summarize the hidden content and how it impacts on the content that is visible?

davidjtaylor

I’m not a subscriber. As I said, vegan products come out better in their summaries and are a good general guide.

Vexorg

I’m doing my best to engage with you, and spent time looking at the articles and the links from articles and the experts discussion on cat food. I have checked again and that site required a £30 subscription to see the table of results. You can some how see them without being a subscriber.

If you don’t share the info you have, what is the point of your posting the links that do not support what you claim?

davidjtaylor

I’m not a subscriber. I can only see the articles as posted. My observation that veg*n products come out better in the animal food articles is based on the information contained therein - as the simple example, “What to buy; What to look for when buying dog food: Is it vegan?” shows - plus veg*n/organic always contribute to higher ratings for companies (though it has to be balanced with other ethical issues).

Several better-rated companies produce vegan cat and dog food. If highlighting these articles helps veg*ns make a more informed choice about what to feed animals, then that’s the end of the story.

Vexorg

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Quick glances at the articles list vegan brands as best-rated in many of their categories.

Nowhere in the articles you linked to above does it list vegan brands as best rated of their categories. Can you link to or copy and paste the categories and brands in the article.

davidjtaylor wrote: »

As I said, vegan products come out better in their summaries and are a good general guide.

I cannot see any summaries where vegan products come out better, any chance of a link to where the article says this?

davidjtaylor wrote: »

My observation that veg*n products come out better in the animal food articles is based on the information contained therein - as the simple example, “What to buy; What to look for when buying dog food: Is it vegan?” shows

The articles don't support your observation. Repeating it does not make it true.

plus veg*n/organic always contribute to higher ratings for companies.

The articles do not say this

Several better-rated companies produce vegan cat and dog food.

Can you show where the articles back this up.

If highlighting these articles helps veg*ns make a more informed choice about what to feed animals,

Highlighting the articles does not help vegans make a more informed choice in the way you are suggesting. I am trying very hard to find anything in the article to support vegan food for cats and dogs being equal or better that meat based foods.

then that’s the end of the story.

You asked me “what am I having issues with specifically” I have been specific and I am just asking for the same courtesy from you.