House deeds

Conbhar

Hi all, I’m wondering if anyone might know which path to put me on? My parents both passed away a few years ago and left me the family home. While dealing my our solicitor we discovered that the deeds to the house cannot be located. Said solicitor has already got in contact with my deceased parents bank and they have written back stating the deeds are not in their possession nor are they in the possession of our solicitor because she has checked her records.
Now our solicitor is saying that the process to get new deeds drawn up for the house may take anywhere between 12-18 months. This news has been a bit of a kick in teeth for my wife and I as we were shortly about to start major renovations to the home but I cannot get a loan without the deeds to the house. If anyone can point me in the right direction or if someone knows a way to get the deeds of the house a bit quicker it would be very much appreciated.

partyguinness

Conbhar wrote: »

Hi all, I’m wondering if anyone might know which path to put me on? My parents both passed away a few years ago and left me the family home. While dealing my our solicitor we discovered that the deeds to the house cannot be located. Said solicitor has already got in contact with my deceased parents bank and they have written back stating the deeds are not in their possession nor are they in the possession of our solicitor because she has checked her records.
Now our solicitor is saying that the process to get new deeds drawn up for the house may take anywhere between 12-18 months. This news has been a bit of a kick in teeth for my wife and I as we were shortly about to start major renovations to the home but I cannot get a loan without the deeds to the house. If anyone can point me in the right direction or if someone knows a way to get the deeds of the house a bit quicker it would be very much appreciated.

Presumably the title is unregistered i.e. recorded with the Registry of Deeds?


With a registered title it would not be such a big deal.

partyguinness

I would suggest that your solicitor conducts a search for an extract of the memorial of the deed of conveyance. It is quite likely that your parents signed it in the presence of a solicitor. Then search for the that firm (assuming registry of deeds title).

Also ask them to write to other local firms and banks asking that they check their deeds bank.

Your solicitor should have covered these bases already.

Conbhar

partyguinness wrote: »

I would suggest that your solicitor conducts a search for an extract of the memorial of the deed of conveyance. It is quite likely that your parents signed it in the presence of a solicitor. Then search for the that firm (assuming registry of deeds title).

Also ask them to write to other local firms and banks asking that they check their deeds bank.

Your solicitor should have covered these bases already.

Cheers for the response partyguinness, our solicitor has indeed made contact with other banks in the area and other firms but so far has come up with nothing. It’s quite strange in a way because my mother always said the deeds were with her bank but they definitely have no such records.

partyguinness

Did your mother mention a specific bank and is there any old mortgage correspondence around the house?

mrsgiller

Is there a folio number or is it unregistered land

Conbhar

partyguinness wrote: »

Did your mother mention a specific bank and is there any old mortgage correspondence around the house?

Yeah she did indeed, we live rurally and our closest town is really small so there’s only three banks there. I know my mother took out a loan to add an extension on in the mid 80’s that was with the same bank, would that info be of any use I wonder?

Conbhar

mrsgiller wrote: »

Is there a folio number or is it unregistered land

I was checking out landdirect.ie and I put the eircode but no folio munger showed up, just the map and the address.

BarryD2

We had our house deeds deposited in local bank for twenty years and more. Then got a call one day a year or so ago to say they no longer wanted to hold documents like this and to come take them. Might be worth checking whatever bank you think they may be with and check their policy as regards this. Have they been divesting themselves of such documents, were any destroyed etc?

maestroamado

The first thing you need to do id log on to landdirect.ie you will be prompted to proceed as guest, when you scroll down it will ask you to accept.
Then you will be presented with map of Ireland, you can zoom in on the property and the folio number will be there if it is registered on their system.
There are a few options where you can buy copies of all relevant documents which you will see for yourself for €40, you can buy this stuff online. I expect when you get a certified copy the name of the legal people will be there and at least that's a good starting point.
There will be a phone number on contact us on the website, I have had reason to contact these people and even though they are limited in what they will tell you they will likely help if you explain your situation.
If it were me i would do this on my own without telling legal people as these guys seem to make things that are quite simple very complicated.
Whether it is possible to get a new document with a certified copy + proof that the property was left to you i have no idea but the land registry people may advise on this.

Sorry i just noticed you have checked land direct...

Conbhar

BarryD2 wrote: »

We had our house deeds deposited in local bank for twenty years and more. Then got a call one day a year or so ago to say they no longer wanted to hold documents like this and to come take them. Might be worth checking whatever bank you think they may be with and check their policy as regards this. Have they been divesting themselves of such documents, were any destroyed etc?

Cheers BarryD2, that might be an avenue I could certainly look down.

Conbhar

maestroamado wrote: »

The first thing you need to do id log on to landdirect.ie you will be prompted to proceed as guest, when you scroll down it will ask you to accept.
Then you will be presented with map of Ireland, you can zoom in on the property and the folio number will be there if it is registered on their system.
There are a few options where you can buy copies of all relevant documents which you will see for yourself for €40, you can buy this stuff online. I expect when you get a certified copy the name of the legal people will be there and at least that's a good starting point.
There will be a phone number on contact us on the website, I have had reason to contact these people and even though they are limited in what they will tell you they will likely help if you explain your situation.
If it were me i would do this on my own without telling legal people as these guys seem to make things that are quite simple very complicated.
Whether it is possible to get a new document with a certified copy + proof that the property was left to you i have no idea but the land registry people may advise on this.

Sorry i just noticed you have checked land direct...

No your grand, cheers for the reply. I have checked and all I’m getting is the map where the house is and the address but no folio number. Does that mean that the house isn’t registered with them and if so what would that mean?

Conbhar

Sorry if I’m coming across as an amateur guys, I’m just very new to all this

Sir Galahad

Dual insurance do title insurance. Contact Rochford Brady in Dublin for information.

Addle

We were told when sorting out family ownerships that most rural property is registered and urban property is not.
Are you sure there isn’t a folio?

Conbhar

Addle wrote: »

We were told when sorting out family ownerships that most rural property is registered and urban property is not.
Are you sure there isn’t a folio?

Not that I’m aware of no.

maestroamado

/www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/personal-bank-account-files-going-back-years-can-be-seen-for-6-35-29493588.html

If the bank gave a loan on the property it is likely the deeds are there. I think if you can provide proof of repayments they well be obliged to confirm return of said deeds.
I would deal with the bank myself as the solicitor will just write a letter.

Toots

Did your parents hold a safekeeping envelope or box with the bank branch? It would be worth checking if there's anything held because if they got the deeds back and put them in safekeeping, the bank wouldn't know - they don't record what is in the safekeeping (in fact where I worked, one of the T&Cs was that the customer didn't disclose what was in there). All they'd have is a log saying "Mr & Mrs Bloggs", the number assigned, and a description of the container they used, ie a large envelope or a suitcase etc.

It's not something they still offer, but in a lot of banks they still hold safekeeping for existing users. If your mum said the deeds were with the bank, it might be possible that's what she meant.

BarryD2

Toots wrote: »

Did your parents hold a safekeeping envelope or box with the bank branch? It would be worth checking if there's anything held because if they got the deeds back and put them in safekeeping, the bank wouldn't know - they don't record what is in the safekeeping (in fact where I worked, one of the T&Cs was that the customer didn't disclose what was in there). All they'd have is a log saying "Mr & Mrs Bloggs", the number assigned, and a description of the container they used, ie a large envelope or a suitcase etc.

It's not something they still offer, but in a lot of banks they still hold safekeeping for existing users. If your mum said the deeds were with the bank, it might be possible that's what she meant.

Yes, that was our situation - just a bundle of documents in a sealed envelope. As mentioned our bank was keen to clear these out and give them back.

Apparently there's all manner of such stored in some of the older banks, some going back centuries. Chap on radio recently who was campaigning for some legislation to have these released to the public - like the 'dormant accounts' legislation.

juke

Conbhar wrote: »

Hi all, I’m wondering if anyone might know which path to put me on? My parents both passed away a few years ago and left me the family home. While dealing my our solicitor we discovered that the deeds to the house cannot be located. Said solicitor has already got in contact with my deceased parents bank and they have written back stating the deeds are not in their possession nor are they in the possession of our solicitor because she has checked her records.
Now our solicitor is saying that the process to get new deeds drawn up for the house may take anywhere between 12-18 months. This news has been a bit of a kick in teeth for my wife and I as we were shortly about to start major renovations to the home but I cannot get a loan without the deeds to the house. If anyone can point me in the right direction or if someone knows a way to get the deeds of the house a bit quicker it would be very much appreciated.

This is nuts. It's simply not that time consuming to reconstitute lost title deeds, so there must be another complication.

If it really only a case that the deeds are lost:

1. Registry of Deeds searches - max 2 or 3 days;
2. Attested copy memorials - a few weeks, at most;
3. Lost title deeds insurance bond - a week or so.

Maybe your solicitor is including an application for first registration in the Land Registry in the time frame - you should be able to borrow while the application is pending.

Otherwise, ask your solicitor what exactly is involved that would take so long.

UrbanFox

I am not sure if I am making the same point as Sir Galahead (post 14 above) but most household insurance policies will have limited cover for the costs of reconstituting lost deeds.

Conbhar

juke wrote: »

This is nuts. It's simply not that time consuming to reconstitute lost title deeds, so there must be another complication.

If it really only a case that the deeds are lost:

1. Registry of Deeds searches - max 2 or 3 days;
2. Attested copy memorials - a few weeks, at most;
3. Lost title deeds insurance bond - a week or so.

Maybe your solicitor is including an application for first registration in the Land Registry in the time frame - you should be able to borrow while the application is pending.

Otherwise, ask your solicitor what exactly is involved that would take so long.

Yeah I was thinking that length of time sounded a bit ridiculous to be honest. The whole thing is taking a ludicrous amount of time, my dads dead 5 years and this is just adding to the hold up at this stage :rolleyes:

maestroamado

The mourning period is usually 1 year + a bit, in your case its 5 years.
Now you want instant access, that's not how it works...

Conbhar

maestroamado wrote: »

The mourning period is usually 1 year + a bit, in your case its 5 years.
Now you want instant access, that's not how it works...

Ah if I have to wait 12-18 months then I’ll just have to wait that long I guess. I just wanted to see if anyone on here had any ideas on how I could maybe speed up the process and people have giving me some very good advice going forward so thank you to those people.

maestroamado

I think it is worth your while to give land registry a call for two reasons.
First of all your just asking and they have being very helpful to me.
Give them whatever info you have and see what they say.
Secondly if you tell your lawyer you are making enquiries it be a wake-up call for him/her.

partyguinness

I promise you this will not be a top priority for your solicitor- just a ball ache really. So you are better off conducting your own inquiries.

Conbhar

maestroamado wrote: »

I think it is worth your while to give land registry a call for two reasons.
First of all your just asking and they have being very helpful to me.
Give them whatever info you have and see what they say.
Secondly if you tell your lawyer you are making enquiries it be a wake-up call for him/her.

Cheers mate, I’ll definitely give them a shout.

Conbhar

partyguinness wrote: »

I promise you this will not be a top priority for your solicitor- just a ball ache really. So you are better off conducting your own inquiries.

Yeah that’s pretty sound advice, cheers. I’ve already went to my parents old bank to talk with them and they said they sent any documents like deeds up to their headquarters two years ago. They gave me a number to contact and I spoke to a very helpful guy who took my details and my parents info and he said he’d get on it ASAP.

kathleen37

Hi there,

I hope it's ok to post here - I have a similar situation, only I think there may not have been any deeds to start with? House was built about 30 years ago and never any mortgage on it . I do have Folio details, with both my parents listed. I have sadly lost them both now and the house has been left to me via will.

Do I need a solicitor to get deeds created, or get the folio details transfered to me?

Many thanks for your help.

partyguinness

kathleen37 wrote: »

Hi there,

I hope it's ok to post here - I have a similar situation, only I think there may not have been any deeds to start with? House was built about 30 years ago and never any mortgage on it . I do have Folio details, with both my parents listed. I have sadly lost them both now and the house has been left to me via will.

Do I need a solicitor to get deeds created, or get the folio details transfered to me?

Many thanks for your help.

You will need to lodge a Deed of Assent and Form 17 with the Land Registry. There is also an additional ID form if do not use a solicitor but for the sake of a few hundred euros I would just get a local to solicitor to draft the Assent and lodge the application.

kathleen37

partyguinness wrote: »

You will need to lodge a Deed of Assent and Form 17 with the Land Registry. There is also an additional ID form if do not use a solicitor but for the sake of a few hundred euros I would just get a local to solicitor to draft the Assent and lodge the application.

That's excellent - thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it

MikeSoys

hi I was send allot of documentation from KBC after paying off my morgage recently for an appartment . What does the deeds look like? looking throught all the paperwork , im trying to identifiy what the 'property deed' looks like(if its included in what i was sent)... when i google property deeds its pics are from UK or USA(fancy paper etc) .anyone know where i can see an irish example of a property deed?

ax530

I built a house and enquired about getting 'deeds' , there is not paper deed issued on property the land registry folio is what is considered, who ever owns the land also owns houses ect built on it. If you have built a house need to get certificate of compliance with planning and a cert of completion to regulations. These together with the land registry will allow you 'sell' a house or borrow money from bank on house.
I also aware of bit of land we have which is not registered with land registry. Cant remember exactly but it does show up different on land registry as it does not have folio. This is still registered with registry of deeds. Solicitor told me it takes some time and would cost circa 2k to get it added to folio in land registry.
Perhaps some of the above is of use to you. In that the house may never have had a 'deed' as such (like mine) and if not a folio on landregistry may still be registered with register of deeds.

Claw Hammer

MikeSoys wrote: »

hi I was send allot of documentation from KBC after paying off my morgage recently for an appartment . What does the deeds look like? looking throught all the paperwork , im trying to identifiy what the 'property deed' looks like(if its included in what i was sent)... when i google property deeds its pics are from UK or USA(fancy paper etc) .anyone know where i can see an irish example of a property deed?

Go onto the Bidx1 website. Look at the legal documents for some of the properties listed. There will be numerous examples throughout the site.

busylady

MikeSoys wrote: »

hi I was send allot of documentation from KBC after paying off my morgage recently for an appartment . What does the deeds look like? looking throught all the paperwork , im trying to identifiy what the 'property deed' looks like(if its included in what i was sent)... when i google property deeds its pics are from UK or USA(fancy paper etc) .anyone know where i can see an irish example of a property deed?

There would be a lot documents for an apartment and it would be important to keep them all together as most of the documents you would have received from the bank will be necessary for any future sale - such as the original Lease and all planning certificates. Congrats on paying off the mortgage - must be a great feeling to get the deeds !