Driving licences, banned drivers, and id card

Belfast

I hope this is the right area to post this in.

Why are people not handing in their licences?
Irish drivers licences have more than one use.
They are also used as Id for banking etc.
I think some people are not handing over their licences as they need them as id if they do not have a passport.

Maybe they could issue a non-driver ID card for people who cannot drive or are not allowed to drive like they do in America for use as id for banking etc.

Get a non-driver ID card
https://dmv.ny.gov/id-card/bget-non-driver-id-card-ndid

antodeco

Like the age card or the social services card?

stanley1989

I myself was banned and didn't hand in my license . Not because I continued driving I just didn't bother I know others done the same . Big deal being made out of nothing here I think . 90% of the time when stopped by gardai they check your driver's number anyway

Dravokivich

stanley1989 wrote: »

I myself was banned and didn't hand in my license . Not because I continued driving I just didn't bother I know others done the same . Big deal being made out of nothing here I think . 90% of the time when stopped by gardai they check your driver's number anyway

Im under the impression that while disqualified the period of the ban doesn't actually start until the licence is handed in.

Hal3000

Because this is Ireland. We don't punish crimes. People who are disqualified here often continue driving, kill someone and they still get off. They get their mammy to write a letter to the judge, say they're sorry and they've a bright future ahead. No worries!!

Belfast

antodeco wrote: »

Like the age card or the social services card?

They are not valid id for Banking etc.

Belfast

Dravokivich wrote: »

Im under the impression that while disqualified the period of the ban doesn't actually start until the licence is handed in.

if that were the case every one with a valid licence could avoid a ban ever starting by never handing in their licence.

Dravokivich

Belfast wrote: »

if that were the case every one with a valid licence could avoid a ban ever starting by never handing in their licence.

As I said under the impression. Could have been something i misread elsewhere. It doesn't help you in anyway. Youd still be disqualified. It's just the term of the disqualification wont start counting down until the licence is surrendered. Is the way I understood it.

CiniO

Driving licence good as ID for banks, credit unions, and even some government offices (not all) but not everyone have a driving licence, and banned drivers should surrender theirs.

Social services card good as ID in social welfare office or NDLS, and probably for other places, but not good elsewhere (i.e. banks, etc).

Then we have passport card which is good for travelling abroad, but not good as ID in many banks, or social offices.

In short- it's a big mess.

I still don't get why Ireland can't start issuing proper national ID's like most EU countries have, which would be good for all above purposes.

stanley1989

Dravokivich wrote: »

Im under the impression that while disqualified the period of the ban doesn't actually start until the licence is handed in.

First time I've heard this never applied to me anyway

Belfast

CiniO wrote: »

Driving licence good as ID for banks, credit unions, and even some government offices (not all) but not everyone have a driving licence, and banned drivers should surrender theirs.

Social services card good as ID in social welfare office or NDLS, and probably for other places, but not good elsewhere (i.e. banks, etc).

Then we have passport card which is good for travelling abroad, but not good as ID in many banks, or social offices.

In short- it's a big mess.

I still don't get why Ireland can't start issuing proper national ID's like most EU countries have, which would be good for all above purposes.

Ids could end up being very expensive here as they were in the UK.

Cost of national ID card scheme soars by £840m in six months

The official cost of the controversial national identity card scheme has soared in the past six months by £840m, according to Home Office figures published yesterday. It means the total cost of the project is now £5.75bn.

But the latest six-monthly estimate makes it clear that even this figure is far from likely to be the final bill, since it excludes the costs of the ID card scheme to government departments outside the Home Office.

For instance, the costs of card scanners for GPs registering new patients or for social security offices paying out welfare benefits are as yet excluded from this official estimate. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/may/11/idcards.immigrationpolicy

In much of Europe the police can demand to see you id card when every they want and in some countries in it and offence not to carry an ID card.

I bought 2 SIM card for smart phones last year no problem.

This year I was told I need a drivers licence or a Passport to buy one and it had to be registered in my name.

They had ID cards in the UK during ww2 and for a few years after.
MPs kept getting complaint about police demanding to see ID even when no crime was suspected.
So they go rid of them.
This is one reason that the British did not join the Schengen area where no pass port was needed to move between EU countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

CiniO

Belfast wrote: »

Ids could end up being very expensive here as they were in the UK.

So they started introducing them in UK, spend as much money, and then gave up?

In much of Europe the police can demand to see you id card when every they want and in some countries in it and offence not to carry an ID card.

This is an argument I constantly hear from Irish and UK people against ID cards, but it's not really an issue at all.
I'm not aware of any country in EU where carrying national ID with you would be obligatory or even if there are countries where it is the case, then it's never enforced.
It might be different with tourists and non-residents.
And obviously you need one when crossing the border (even within Schengen zone).

I bought 2 SIM card for smart phones last year no problem.

This year I was told I need a drivers licence or a Passport to buy one and it had to be registered in my name.

That's EU wide regulation afaik which were introduced last year i think.

They had ID cards in the UK during ww2 and for a few years after.
MPs kept getting complaint about police demanding to see ID even when no crime was suspected.
So they go rid of them.

Wouldn't it be easier to just instruct police to stop demanding them, instead of scrapping the whole scheme?

This is one reason that the British did not join the Schengen area where no pass port was needed to move between EU countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area[/QUOTE]

Schengen is an area with no obligatory border control, but ID requirements for crossing the border stay the same - being passport or EU issued national ID.

Once you're crossing border between f.e. Austria and Italy, you need to have valid passport or national ID, even though in vast majority of cases you'll be never stopped and asked for it. But police and border control officers have right to stop you and demand it off you once you're crossing the border.

I don't see any connection between that and UK not joining Schengen.

uck51js9zml2yt

Thought there was a requirement to bring them to court for motoring offences

Marcusm

It should be simple to mandate that failure to surrender a licence for the purposes of an endorsement or a ban leads to a doubling or trebling of the underlying punishment. Frankly, for court based offences, a failure to surrender the licence should result in a loss of Liberty. A sufficiently harsh punishment to encourage compliance. My father was banned and I recall that there was no question of not surrendering the licence, the only out being a short deferment for the 30 days of a potential appeal.

Belfast

CiniO wrote: »

So they started introducing them in UK, spend as much money, and then gave up?

No, they still use them but they are "voluntary".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card

CiniO wrote: »

This is an argument I constantly hear from Irish and UK people against ID cards, but it's not really an issue at all.
I'm not aware of any country in EU where carrying national ID with you would be obligatory or even if there are countries where it is the case, then it's never enforced.
It might be different with tourists and non-residents.
And obviously you need one when crossing the border (even within Schengen zone).

in Belgium every one has to carry id.

Belgians are required to carry the identity card and to show their identity cards when requested by:

police;
certain government agencies; or
authorised bus and train personnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_national_identity_card

However, in Belgium, you can be punished if you don’t have your identity documents with you: police officers can give you a fine between 156 and 3000€ and/or carry out an administrative arrest in order to verify your identity. Moreover, you commit an offence if you make them believe that you are someone else or if you possess or use false identity documents.
https://agirpourlapaix.be/legal-information/

You can be arrested in Belgium for not having id.

CiniO wrote: »

That's EU wide regulation afaik which were introduced last year i think.

indeed. you still need a drivers licence.

CiniO wrote: »

Wouldn't it be easier to just instruct police to stop demanding them, instead of scrapping the whole scheme?

Maybe, there were not of much use them other than for the police to check who you were.It was cheaper to get rid of them.

This is one reason that the British did not join the Schengen area where no pass port was needed to move between EU countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

CiniO wrote: »

Schengen is an area with no obligatory border control, but ID requirements for crossing the border stay the same - being passport or EU issued national ID.

Once you're crossing border between f.e. Austria and Italy, you need to have valid passport or national ID, even though in vast majority of cases you'll be never stopped and asked for it. But police and border control officers have right to stop you and demand it off you once you're crossing the border.

I don't see any connection between that and UK not joining Schengen.

Because the British did ids check on passports at the border, but had no id check after the border. in the Schengen area you can pass thought the border without showing a passport, but could be asked for id any where in the country you have entered.

Belfast

Taliyah Mushy Virtuoso wrote: »

Thought there was a requirement to bring them to court for motoring offences

You are told to send the licence to a p.o. box in cork if you are banned.

V8 Interceptor

I was very surprised to hear Drew Harris say today that he's getting the Guards 2,000 handheld devices that'd allow them to know whether a driver had a valid licence or not. I thought they had such a system in the squad car already?

V8 Interceptor

Belfast wrote: »

You are told to send the licence to a p.o. box in cork if you are banned.

Cousin of mine did that and had to badger them for weeks to confirm they'd received it. Whole system sounds a bit Mickey Mouse tbh.

Belfast

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I was very surprised to hear Drew Harris say today that he's getting the Guards 2,000 handheld devices that'd allow them to know whether a driver had a valid licence or not. I thought they had such a system in the squad car already?

It does not surprise me.

They only started trials December 2017.

https://www.garda.ie/en/About-Us/Our-Departments/Office-of-Corporate-Communications/News-Media/ACTIVE-Mobility-programme-Limerick-Gardai-to-Pilot-New-Garda-Mobile-Apps.html

In Britain use of scanning devices on number plates has lead to people copying other peoples numbers plates.

Number plate scam could cost you £2,000 in fines for offences you DIDN’T commit
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1113520/number-plate-private-car-dvla-fines-cloned-scam


I sure some one will come up with a way of copy licences or fooling the new Garda scanners.
I wonder how many parts of the country will the mobile phone data network be good enough for the Gardaí to use the smart phones.
How long will it take criminals to hack the new Garda Siochana smart phones?