Planning permission for garden shed

aztec45

I got planning permission for an extension to the side and front of my house, now built. At the back I have a shed,size is less than 25Msq under 3M height. Does the fact that I have extended the house (greater than 40Msq) mean that any further buildings on the site require planning permission and as a result the shed at the back or any extension to the shed now needs planning?

Gumbo

aztec45 wrote: »

I got planning permission for an extension to the side and front of my house, now built. At the back I have a shed,size is less than 25Msq under 3M height. Does the fact that I have extended the house (greater than 40Msq) mean that any further buildings on the site require planning permission and as a result the shed at the back or any extension to the shed now needs planning?

The shed is a separate exemption (Class 3).
You can enjoy the 25 Sq. M shed once you also have 25 Sq. M of rear garden space remaining.

aztec45

Does it matter if the shed is timber construction or if it is a permanent block structure?

Lumen

aztec45 wrote: »

Does it matter if the shed is timber construction or if it is a permanent block structure?

No.

edit: Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "does it matter". The finish may matter under class 3 exemption if it's to the side of the house.

4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print

metricspaces

Does this mean that a shed like this would need planning?



So the setup is you use both the boundary wall and the wall of the house as walls of the shed, and put a roof over it i.e.

kurtainsider

Well OP you have 2 choices as I see it:

1. If the shed is less than 25m sq build and enjoy as it is PP exempt.

2. Apply to the County Council for planning permission and draw some busybody down on you asking about the colour of the door, the width of the path out to it, what variety of shrubs you plan on growing beside it, the availability of libraries in a 5km radius etc. etc. Then, after you've jumped through those (arbitrary) hoops - that official goes out on sick leave / sabbatical / maternity / retirement / suspension and a brand new planner dreams up a whole brand new of stupid questions to break your balls about your shed.

Anyway - do whatever you think is best.

Gumbo

kurtainsider wrote: »

Well OP you have 2 choices as I see it:

1. If the shed is less than 25m sq build and enjoy as it is PP exempt.

2. Apply to the County Council for planning permission and draw some busybody down on you asking about the colour of the door, the width of the path out to it, what variety of shrubs you plan on growing beside it, the availability of libraries in a 5km radius etc. etc. Then, after you've jumped through those (arbitrary) hoops - that official goes out on sick leave / sabbatical / maternity / retirement / suspension and a brand new planner dreams up a whole brand new of stupid questions to break your balls about your shed.

Anyway - do whatever you think is best.

In real life, this doesn’t happen though.

kurtainsider

kceire wrote: »

In real life, this doesn’t happen though.

You'r right of course - that never happens. Irish planning authorities, an unimpeachable body of people. (Except that it happens every day of the working week)

BryanF

kurtainsider wrote: »

You'r right of course - that never happens. Irish planning authorities, an unimpeachable body of people. (Except that it happens every day of the working week)

Do you feel personally aggrieved over something a planning department has done to you? Would you like to discuss it?

kurtainsider

BryanF wrote: »

Do you feel personally aggrieved over something a planning department has done to you? Would you like to discuss it?

No thanks Bryan - you're grand.

metricspaces

metricspaces wrote: »

Does this mean that a shed like this would need planning?

Any thoughts on this one ? I've seen a few houses with this done - some have side gate in front of the shed so it's not as obvious, some don't as per photo above. Finish of shed does not match house in any way. Technically, do they need planning?

"CLASS 3" from "Exempted Development" here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print is quoted below. Based on this, any shed that does not have the same finish as the original house would need planning?

4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.

Lumen

metricspaces wrote: »

Any thoughts on this one ?

I can't see how that's exempt, the exemption rules are quite clear.

As far as hiding it with a gate/wall/fence, well since that would have to be <2m to be exempt, and sheds are generally taller than than, it's not possible to hide a shed with a wall, fence or gate on a flat site.

There's a front shed on my road that has the gable end on the front boundary. It looks like they're attempting to mask it wth a hedge, but the hedge is only currently at about 6ft so the shed peeks out over the top. Nobody has complained, possibly because there's a housing estate going up over the road and ruining their view, so it would seem to be small-minded to quibble over a shed that'll be behind a hedge in a year or two.

That picture you posted though, IMO that's just wrong. It's damn ugly, there's no effort to integrate it visually or hide it, and if nobody complains and the enforcement period lapses then it'll be there until the end of time.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Any thoughts on this one ? I've seen a few houses with this done - some have side gate in front of the shed so it's not as obvious, some don't as per photo above. Finish of shed does not match house in any way. Technically, do they need planning?

"CLASS 3" from "Exempted Development" here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print is quoted below. Based on this, any shed that does not have the same finish as the original house would need planning?

4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.

I think, in order to comply, they should have done the front facade in the same brick work.

I’m doing something similar on mine in the coming weeks but I’ll build up a parapet, dash it to match the house, put a red brick capping course that matches the house, then I’ll put a fiberglass flat roof behind the parapet.

metricspaces

Thanks. I checked with planning section of county council and they naturally say the same, that the finish of a shed at side of house must match the house in order to be exempt from planning. In reality, I guess it depends how exposed your site is and how particular your neighbors are. I've seen plenty of side sheds recently and the finish is totally different to that of the house.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Thanks. I checked with planning section of county council and they naturally say the same, that the finish of a shed at side of house must match the house in order to be exempt from planning.

True

metricspaces wrote: »

In reality, I guess it depends how exposed your site is and how particular your neighbors are.

Not really, the exemption regulations are clear cut, its either exempt or not. Doesn't matter how exposed the house is or how you neighbor react etc

metricspaces wrote: »

I've seen plenty of side sheds recently and the finish is totally different to that of the house.

These would be a breach and a keen eye'd surveyor acting on behalf of a possible purchaser would pick up on it and request the Planning Compliance from the vendor.

metricspaces

kceire wrote: »

T
Not really, the exemption regulations are clear cut, its either exempt or not. Doesn't matter how exposed the house is or how you neighbor react etc

Oh yes I agree exemption is clear. I meant in terms of whether you are asked to take it down. Unless your neighbor complains to the council or your house is quite exposed and general public can see it to complain, then it's unlikely to come to the attention of the council.

Gumbo

metricspaces wrote: »

Oh yes I agree exemption is clear. I meant in terms of whether you are asked to take it down. Unless your neighbor complains to the council or your house is quite exposed and general public can see it to complain, then it's unlikely to come to the attention of the council.

Possible but just kicks the can down the road, especially if trying to sell.

Lumen

How is "to the side" defined/interpreted?

Gumbo

Lumen wrote: »

How is "to the side" defined/interpreted?

Based on the position of the front I suppose.

Now, how is the front defined in the Act!

Lumen

kceire wrote: »

Based on the position of the front I suppose.

Now, how is the front defined in the Act!

I can find some references to "building lines" in some county development guidelines, so this is my guess:

"To the front" means any part of the structure extends beyond the front line of the house.
"To the side" means any part of the structure extends beyond the side line of the house.
"To the rear" means any part of the structure extends beyond the rear line of the house.

Since the restrictions increase from rear to side to front, then this means in practice:

- If any part of the shed extends beyond the front line of the house, it's not exempted development, otherwise
- If any part of the shed extends beyond the side line of the house, matching finish is required (unless permission is granted for variation), otherwise
- Any finish is permitted.

Of course this kind of assumes that the house is square and parallel to the road.

If you want to confuse the planning enforcers, build a cylindrical house with a conical roof.

christy G

Hi I'm looking to build a flat , studio at the end of my garden. I have been onto Dublin city council. I would need planning permission if it is any larger than 25sq.m
And has a pitched roof 4m or lower or a flat roof of 3m once I have 25sq.m remaining . I have seen a few o daft.ie . Has anyone had any experience doing the same in there back garden ?

Gumbo

christy G wrote: »

Hi I'm looking to build a flat , studio at the end of my garden. I have been onto Dublin city council. I would need planning permission if it is any larger than 25sq.m
And has a pitched roof 4m or lower or a flat roof of 3m once I have 25sq.m remaining . I have seen a few o daft.ie . Has anyone had any experience doing the same in there back garden ?

Flat. You won’t get permission.
Studio/games room/hobby room/shed are all the same class of exemption.

Lumen

kceire wrote: »

Flat. You won’t get permission.
Studio/games room/hobby room/shed are all the same class of exemption.

I assume "studio" was mean in the sense of "crappy bedsit" rather than "centre for the pursuit of fine arts".

Gumbo

Lumen wrote: »

I assume "studio" was mean in the sense of "crappy bedsit" rather than "centre for the pursuit of fine arts".

I classed studio as a kinda workshop related to the main dwelling, painting, crafting or similar but if the OP means studio flat then I agree, planning will
Not be given.

christy G

kceire wrote: »

Flat. You won’t get permission.
Studio/games room/hobby room/shed are all the same class of exemption.

Even if it's no larger then 25sq.m? which I am able to build without my neighbour complaining. Just won't be able make it habitable.

christy G

Lumen wrote: »

I assume "studio" was mean in the sense of "crappy bedsit" rather than "centre for the pursuit of fine arts".

I can't seem to send a picture or a link of the adds that are on daft.ie . Would give you a better idea .

Gumbo

christy G wrote: »

Even if it's no larger then 25sq.m? which I am able to build without my neighbour complaining. Just won't be able make it habitable.

The clue is in the exemption. It’s a shed.
It you are aligning yourself with the shed exemptions, then it’s a shed.

Remember, doesn’t have to be a neighbor that complains. Can be a tenant, somebody walking by, a home owner from 2 blocks away etc

christy G

kceire wrote: »

The clue is in the exemption. It’s a shed.
It you are aligning yourself with the shed exemptions, then it’s a shed.

Remember, doesn’t have to be a neighbor that complains. Can be a tenant, somebody walking by, a home owner from 2 blocks away etc

Thanks for getting back to me so quick . Yes that's true but they can't make me take it down as I'm allowed that size without planning permission. Can they ?

Lumen

christy G wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me so quick . Yes that's true but they can't make me take it down as I'm allowed that size without planning permission. Can they ?

Yes they can, but probably more likely is that they force you to make it comply with the use attached to the exemption, i.e. make it non-habitable.

Gumbo

christy G wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me so quick . Yes that's true but they can't make me take it down as I'm allowed that size without planning permission. Can they ?

If the structure complies with the exempted requirements for sheds, they cannot make you remove the structure, but they can enforce the removal of fixtures and fittings that would deem it habitable.

Ive seen Enforcement Notices for the removal of bathrooms, shower cubicles etc

christy G

kceire wrote: »

If the structure complies with the exempted requirements for sheds, they cannot make you remove the structure, but they can enforce the removal of fixtures and fittings that would deem it habitable.

Ive seen Enforcement Notices for the removal of bathrooms, shower cubicles etc

Ok thanks I understand so how are the propertys that are on daft getting planning if they are making it habitable. I would think the tenant would report them.