Landlord refusing to put boiler in

ninjarambohd

Hi everyone. I aam facing a small dilemma with my landlord. My previous boiler broke down so he recently replaced it with a new one. Anyhow, apparently the boiler doesn't have the capability of heating water and only heats the radiators. I told the landlord about this an he just replied, '' oh well, at least you have an immersion to heat the water just use that. '' I said it's not fair because the immersion will make my electricity bill go over the roof and also I can't set a time for it, it heats the water so much sometimes that it burns when we're washing our hands. He just said, that's not my problem, you already have an immersion that should do.

Does he have the right to do this?

Gumbo

He has to supply a means of heating the water. An immersion satisfies this requirement.

You could set your immersion in a timer by fitting a timer plug or getting a WiFi plug socket, you can then control it from your phone out and about.

Also, do the sums on how many units it required to heat the water against how many gas units. There may be no difference at all. On some days my 200L tank can be heated with around 4kwh of electricity. At standard ESB day rate, that’s about 72c.

Ha Long Bay

You should also be able to adjust the temperature by removing the cover and turning the switch inside. Make sure to have it turned off first before opening the cover.

ninjarambohd

kceire wrote: »

He has to supply a means of heating the water. An immersion satisfies this requirement.

You could set your immersion in a timer by fitting a timer plug or getting a WiFi plug socket, you can then control it from your phone out and about.

Also, do the sums on how many units it required to heat the water against how many gas units. There may be no difference at all. On some days my 200L tank can be heated with around 4kwh of electricity. At standard ESB day rate, that’s about 72c.

That's fair enough then. I did check the immersion now, it doesn't have a timer. I might as well get him to install a timer at least. Thanks.

TheAnalyst_

He has to maintain the standards of the previous bolier.

JustJoe7240

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

He has to maintain the standards of the previous bolier.

Any source?

TheAnalyst_

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Any source?

You want some case examples? Not going to happen.

Landlord doesn't have to supply a vacuum or tv as part of the minimum requirements but when they do its implied to be part of the rental agreement and must be maintained.

jimmycrackcorm

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You want some case examples? Not going to happen.

Landlord doesn't have to supply a vacuum or tv as part of the minimum requirements but when they do its implied to be part of the rental agreement and must be maintained.

Any source?

TheAnalyst_

What's the ploblem?

godtabh

ninjarambohd wrote: »

Hi everyone. I aam facing a small dilemma with my landlord. My previous boiler broke down so he recently replaced it with a new one. Anyhow, apparently the boiler doesn't have the capability of heating water and only heats the radiators. I told the landlord about this an he just replied, '' oh well, at least you have an immersion to heat the water just use that. '' I said it's not fair because the immersion will make my electricity bill go over the roof and also I can't set a time for it, it heats the water so much sometimes that it burns when we're washing our hands. He just said, that's not my problem, you already have an immersion that should do.

Does he have the right to do this?

Are you sure the boiler is set up correctly? Mine can be set up to heat water and rads, rads only or water only.

jlm29

I got a timer put on our immersion last year.. it’s a great job. I don’t know how much it cost. Because we were having other work done at the time, but it was quick, so I can’t imagine it would be very much, and it’s well worth it.
Equally, having the temps adjusted so the water isn’t heated as much is another quick job (for a plumber anyhow, I wouldn’t claim to be able to do it myself!).
If your landlord won’t get those two things done, I doubt it will cost you much to have them done yourself

Tiddlypeeps

I think if you took a case against the LL you would probably win, it's a not insignificant feature of the house to have removed without your agreement. You are now paying the same rent for a worse property.

You'd need to weigh up if it's actually worth taking a case tho, it will dramatically sour the relationship with the LL which could make your life pretty difficult and will likely mean they won't give you a reference should you need it in the future.

Dav010

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I think if you took a case against the LL you would probably win, it's a not insignificant feature of the house to have removed without your agreement. You are now paying the same rent for a worse property.

You'd need to weigh up if it's actually worth taking a case tho, it will dramatically sour the relationship with the LL which could make your life pretty difficult and will likely mean they won't give you a reference should you need it in the future.

I would have thought a new boiler would have better performance and be more efficient/less costly to run than an old one, and particularly during the summer, an immersion would be faster and cheaper than a boiler at heating water, the thermostat cuts out the immersion when water heats a certain temp. How is this a worse property?

Dial Hard

kceire wrote:

You could set your immersion in a timer by fitting a timer plug or getting a WiFi plug socket, you can then control it from your phone out and about.

Have you ever seen a plug-in immersion in your life? I haven't.

Also, afaik it's considerably cheaper to heat water with gas/oil than it is with electricity.

TheAnalyst_

Dav010 wrote: »

I would have thought a new boiler would have better performance and be more efficient/less costly to run than an old one, and particularly during the summer, an immersion would be faster and cheaper than a boiler at heating water, the thermostat cuts out the immersion when water heats a certain temp. How is this a worse property?

Immersion water heating is dark ages ****e. There's a reason why the rest of the world don't have comedy routines about immersion heating.

Tiddlypeeps

Dav010 wrote: »

I would have thought a new boiler would have better performance and be more efficient/less costly to run than an old one, and particularly during the summer, an immersion would be faster and cheaper than a boiler at heating water, the thermostat cuts out the immersion when water heats a certain temp. How is this a worse property?

Tangential benefits of the new boiler vs the old are irrelevant. The OP was previously able to heat their water using oil or gas and they were able to heat the water they needed on a timer/schedule.

The LL providing a benefit in one regard does not negate the fact they are removing another without the tenants agreement. The LL can't just downgrade the cooker to one with a single ring on the hob when it was previously 4 and try to get away with it by claiming the oven it's attached to is more energy efficient.

I could be wrong and it's certainly not clear cut, but I'd be reasonably certain the RTB would take a dim view of the LL cheaping out on their maintenance responsibilities like that. But as I said, it will likely bring a whole world of hurt to the OP in other ways so may not actually be worth pursuing.

K.Flyer

A few years ago I was servicing a boiler and the owner told me a very similar story of no hot water for the couple of years since the new boiler had been installed.
I checked the system and it turned out to be a valve that had been accidentally left "closed".
I set the valve and she has had loads of hot water ever since.
If the boiler was swapped out for a similar modern unit it is very unusual that the facility of heating hot water using the gas boiler has been done away with.
I would think there is a simple fix to the problem, unless the installer himself has verified that it would not be possible to re-instate, which as I said, would be very unusual.
If you are having difficulty with the land lord or cannot speak with the installer I would suggest that you pay for a registered gas installer yourself to check over the boiler and verify why it cannot heat the water.
It might just be an easy fix!

Dav010

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

What the **** does that mean? The post is perfectly obvious.

Developed western countries do not use immersion water heating systems.

Which countries don’t use them? Have you a link to show that they don’t?

TheAnalyst_

Mod Note

Post Removed.

Graham

Mod Note

TheAnalyst_, do not post or edit posts in this thread again.

Others, quit the snipping at each other please.

Some posts have been deleted.

Gumbo

Dial Hard wrote: »

Have you ever seen a plug-in immersion in your life? I haven't.

.

Yes I have.

Dial Hard wrote: »

Also, afaik it's considerably cheaper to heat water with gas/oil than it is with electricity.

I posted the cost to heat my 200L tank using the immersion.
So maybe someone can do the sums on the gas rate.

BnB

K.Flyer wrote: »

A few years ago I was servicing a boiler and the owner told me a very similar story of no hot water for the couple of years since the new boiler had been installed.
I checked the system and it turned out to be a valve that had been accidentally left "closed".
I set the valve and she has had loads of hot water ever since.
If the boiler was swapped out for a similar modern unit it is very unusual that the facility of heating hot water using the gas boiler has been done away with.
I would think there is a simple fix to the problem, unless the installer himself has verified that it would not be possible to re-instate, which as I said, would be very unusual.
If you are having difficulty with the land lord or cannot speak with the installer I would suggest that you pay for a registered gas installer yourself to check over the boiler and verify why it cannot heat the water.
It might just be an easy fix!

I think you are spot on there. I don't see how changing the boiler would result in the new boiler not heating water. Unless the plumber has significantly changed the system, I think it is something as simple as the poster above said. I think you should try and talk to who installed the boiler. If you don't have access to them,try and get the LL to do so.

Del2005

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Immersion water heating is dark ages ****e. There's a reason why the rest of the world don't have comedy routines about immersion heating.

Yet the UK is going to ban heating with oil or gas soon. So we are ahead of the game not in the dark ages

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47559920

K.Flyer

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Immersion water heating is dark ages ****e. There's a reason why the rest of the world don't have comedy routines about immersion heating.

Kingspan introduces the new “smart” immersion heaters

JustJoe7240

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

You want some case examples? Not going to happen.

Landlord doesn't have to supply a vacuum or tv as part of the minimum requirements but when they do its implied to be part of the rental agreement and must be maintained.

No, I was looking for a source of the regulations you had just stated, as to me it sounds like hearsay.

stiofan85

OP, check the boiler model online. Very unlikely it doesn't heat water. If the old one heated water then the connection is there and the plumber is very unlikely to not have connected it.

If the boiler doesn't heat water - very unlikely, get the immersion temp and timer sorted.

If boiler does heat water - very likely, get a plumber out and figure out why it's not working for you.

Anteayer

Electric water heaters aren't stone age, if they're modern and properly insulated types - as has been the norm on the continent for about 70 years or so.

Irish/British classic "immersion" heaters are an uninsulated cooper cylinder with a heating element. Whatever insulation they have tends to be rather minimalist or a lagging jacket.

With heating technology this primative and wasteful being so normalised here, it's no wonder we are so off the mark on climate issues and often have such uncomfortably cold houses.

Ireland and Britian are probably the only places I've lived where one been literally cold in a house despite spending a fortune on heating and I'd argue Ireland has done less to improve this than the UK has over the past few decades.

A lot of rental accomodation here has storage heating and just peak rate convectors in the bedrooms and very primative water heating.

On the continent you typically turn on the water heater and it's efficient enough that you don't have to time it or turn it off. It's like a Thermos flask. It just maintains a constant temperature and isn't hot to touch loses very little heat.
Some of them will heat a large volume of water over night or on a smart meter at cheapest rates. Then they'll just use a smaller booster element to maintain that during the day.

The UK switch off of gas and oil heating on new builds is due to A rated, near passive housing standards and heat pumps. They're not going to be installing 1950s style immersions.

Similar is possible here with most new build due to insulation standards.

enfant terrible

Ask in the plumbing forum. They may b e able to help you fix the problem yourself.

ercork

kceire wrote: »

Yes I have.



I posted the cost to heat my 200L tank using the immersion.
So maybe someone can do the sums on the gas rate.

4units of electricity is probably enough to heat your water in the summer alright but in the colder months you might need 6 or even 8 units. So, assuming the 18c day rate per unit, the cost would vary between 72c and 144c (144c being an extreme upper limit).

Gas only costs about 6c per unit:
New, modern, condenser boilers have an efficiency of 90% or higher so the cost of heating the same amount of water as above would vary between 27c (4/0.9 x 6c) and 53c (8/0.9 x 6c).
Older boilers from 20 years ago can have efficiencies as low as 50% so the cost would range between 48c (4/0.5 x 6c) and 96c (8/0.5 x 6c).

ninjarambohd

Hi all. Just wanted to chime in again about something interesting I found. I went online and found the new boilers instruction manual online and it indeed does have the capability of heating water and radiators at the same time,just don't know why the landlord is refusing to agree to this fact.

I attached pictures of the new boiler down below.

ninjarambohd

Hi all. Just wanted to chime in again about something interesting I found. I went online and found the new boilers instruction manual, it indeed does have the capability of heating water and radiators at the same time,just don't know why the landlord is refusing to agree to this fact.

I have attached pictures of the new boiler below.